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Z370 / Z390 VRM Discussion Thread - Page 22

post #211 of 1401
Thread Starter 
More pictures of the Taichi - but I still don't get how that design works...
post #212 of 1401
Hey guys.
For the regular joe that looks for a good bang for the buck and some reasonably oc, do you think there's much of a difference between a mid range msi mobo and an Asus one?
I like that the msi in general come with more usb ports and fan headers.

Particularly I think that the MSI Z370M GAMING PRO AC offers a very good bang for the buck (Wi-Fi and blue tooth, realtek 1220, sli), but I don't know if the oc capabilities would be much worse than the likes of the asus prime z370a or the strix z370h.

I'd be using it with a noctua nh u14s or a thermalright le grand macho rt.
Thanks!
post #213 of 1401
br0da, I think Fairchild and SM7341 is a situation of alternate suppliers.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hw2hqW7dMI

Luckily ANYONE can find out without removing heatsinks on the Taichi/Fatal1ty i7. The memory phases are not heatsinked and unlike the ASUS ROG boards, there are the same (brand) mosfets for memory phases.

(see https://news.xfastest.com/review/41734/asrock-z370-taichi/)



As such, I think that the Fatal1ty i7 needs to be downgraded to "top of midrange". Clearly the price is for 10Gbps LAN and other such things.


It seems the size of the mosfets on the Fatal1ty K6 and Extreme4 for memory is not the same footprint (i.e. not the same parts), so I think that is another major difference (as far as memory overclock).


(example Extreme4 review http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/topic/review/1084754.html)


example K6 review https://www.techtesters.eu/asrock-z370-gaming-k6-review/


Quote:
Originally Posted by tiango View Post

Hey guys.
For the regular joe that looks for a good bang for the buck and some reasonably oc, do you think there's much of a difference between a mid range msi mobo and an Asus one?
I like that the msi in general come with more usb ports and fan headers.

Particularly I think that the MSI Z370M GAMING PRO AC offers a very good bang for the buck (Wi-Fi and blue tooth, realtek 1220, sli), but I don't know if the oc capabilities would be much worse than the likes of the asus prime z370a or the strix z370h.

I'd be using it with a noctua nh u14s or a thermalright le grand macho rt.
Thanks!

If not delidding your CPU will hold you back more than the motherboard. For now the ~$160 z370 Fatal1ty K6 seems the best value (price/perf rather than outright cheap) ATX board. If you need wifi it has the wifi slot so you can just buy the card and slot it in.

At ~ $170-180 I wouldn't call the Z370M Gaming Pro AC a great value. If you get a variant with OnSemi parts at best it's on par with a ASUS Z370-A or STRIX-F. It's not a terrible value, but not a great one. I wouldn't even look at the STRIX-H , if you look at the Z270 STRIX-H variant it's a <$130 board being sold for a price premium.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techhog View Post

Does that mean that the Itachi might need to be downgraded as well, since it likely wouldn't have better VRM than a higher-end Asrock board?

I'll probably split them up into the Fatal1ty + Taichi with Fairchild left as is & Sinopower variants on par with a top end STRIX. Nothing is definitive ; 8pack suggests Taichi is on par with the GB Gaming 7 / Asus ROG Hero and better than the ROG hero for memory overclocks. There's a reason why it is a preliminary rundown. tongue.gif
Edited by AlphaC - 10/16/17 at 12:32pm
post #214 of 1401
Does that mean that the Itachi might need to be downgraded as well, since it likely wouldn't have better VRM than a higher-end Asrock board?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

I'll probably split them up into the Fatal1ty + Taichi with Fairchild left as is & Sinopower variants on par with a top end STRIX. Nothing is definitive ; 8pack suggests Taichi is on par with the GB Gaming 7 / Asus ROG Hero and better than the ROG hero for memory overclocks. There's a reason why it is a preliminary rundown. tongue.gif

Ah, makes sense. I just wanted no know since I'm thinking about replacing my Strix if it's not fixed this week and the Itachi is one of the boards I'm considering.
Edited by Techhog - 10/16/17 at 12:21pm
post #215 of 1401
Interestingly enough, I found the EVGA motherboards on the Japanese version of their website:


I can't reproduce it on the American/English website.

You can get the specs sheets from there too: https://www.evga.com/products/pdf/121-KS-E375-KR.pdf but I'm not sure if it gives any valuable information? Perhaps somebody smarter than me can find something else of interest on those pages?
post #216 of 1401
Quote:
Originally Posted by drumsticks View Post

Interestingly enough, I found the EVGA motherboards on the Japanese version of their website:


I can't reproduce it on the American/English website.

You can get the specs sheets from there too: https://www.evga.com/products/pdf/121-KS-E375-KR.pdf but I'm not sure if it gives any valuable information? Perhaps somebody smarter than me can find something else of interest on those pages?

https://www.evga.com/articles/01151/evga-z370-series-motherboards/

It's on US website but we can't trust manufacturers sites for power delivery info.

If they're reusing Z270 layouts then it's IR3553 Powerstages (good) but if the price is $170+ then I'd rather get the Asrock z370 Taichi / Fatal1ty K6 or GigaByte z370 Gaming 7. The Maximus X Hero is a decent choice but given how broken BIOS releases are right now (blame Intel not motherboard vendors) I'd opt for a board with Dual BIOS.

It's probably 6+4 layout ,mosfets notwithstanding.
Edited by AlphaC - 10/16/17 at 12:51pm
post #217 of 1401
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

https://www.evga.com/articles/01151/evga-z370-series-motherboards/

It's on US website but we can't trust manufacturers sites for power delivery info.

If they're reusing Z270 layouts then it's IR3553 Powerstages (good) but if the price is $170+ then I'd rather get the Asrock z370 Taichi / Fatal1ty K6 or GigaByte z370 Gaming 7. The Maximus X Hero is a decent choice but given how broken BIOS releases are right now (blame Intel not motherboard vendors) I'd opt for a board with Dual BIOS.

It's probably 6+4 layout ,mosfets notwithstanding.

There are a couple extra images of the PCB and possibly slightly more detail in the specs PDF. I didn't think they'd said anything outright on it on power delivery, and I figured it wouldn't reveal anything additional, but I thought it might be handy.

Re: whether it's 6+4 etc. - I have generally followed PCs and overclocked long enough to have a decent handle on it (looking to delid and do a custom loop this time), but I never really bothered to learn exactly how to count or evaluate VRMs and power delivery. How do you determine whether it's 6+4 or 8+2 or 4+4 or something/what are those numbers broken up into? I know that EVGA states they have an 11 phase VRM with 8 VCORE phases; is there any way to turn that into an 8+X *number*, VRM quality aside? (I know not every 8+whatever is the same at least).

I understand (or think I do) the characteristics that define good/bad VRMs based on what I've read from the thread (fortunately I remember enough from school), but I have no idea how to actually calculate them based on what the motherboard looks like etc biggrin.gif
post #218 of 1401
the asus hero X is such? Is it good for memory?
post #219 of 1401
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiango View Post

Hey guys.
For the regular joe that looks for a good bang for the buck and some reasonably oc, do you think there's much of a difference between a mid range msi mobo and an Asus one?
I like that the msi in general come with more usb ports and fan headers.

Particularly I think that the MSI Z370M GAMING PRO AC offers a very good bang for the buck (Wi-Fi and blue tooth, realtek 1220, sli), but I don't know if the oc capabilities would be much worse than the likes of the asus prime z370a or the strix z370h.

I'd be using it with a noctua nh u14s or a thermalright le grand macho rt.
Thanks!

MSI? Sure. Crappy mobos across the board to be honest.
post #220 of 1401
Quote:
Originally Posted by murenitu View Post

the asus hero X is such? Is it good for memory?

good not = best. tongue.gif


https://www.techbang.com/posts/54350-competing-in-the-mainstream-market-gaming-small-plate-asus-rog-strix-z370-i-gaming-test
ON Semiconductor NTMFD4C86N MOSFET


Another confirmation
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