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Z370 / Z390 VRM Discussion Thread - Page 36

post #351 of 1179
I'm going to buy delidded 8700K and overclock it to some reasonable level (not crazy voltage, I expect it to last for a few years). I'm going to use good air cooler (but I could use water cooling if absolutely necessary). I'm going to overclock RAM to something like 3200 MHz with low latency. I don't really care about aesthetics or expansions, my build will be pretty minimal, I value quality and durability before all and a bit of premium is not an issue. Is Asus ROG Hero would be a good choice for me?
post #352 of 1179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackspots View Post

Ok, so which one should I really get??

Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 7
Gigabyte Z370-Aorus-Gaming-WiFi
ASRock Fatal1ty Z370 Gaming K6
MSI Z370 Pro Gaming Carbon AC

ASRock and Gigabyte Gaming Wifi are preferrable since they have two USB 3.0 headers next to each other, like they are on my Gigabyte GA-Z170X Gaming 6
The MSI is preferred because of its use of the PCI-E add in card for WiFi with the Intel 8265 M.2 WiFi module. It has two USB 3.0 headers, but one is at a right angle, and the other isn't.
The Gigabyte Gaming WiFi uses an older 3xxx series Intel WiFi M.2 module, and I could replace that with the 8265.
The ASRock, I would either buy an add in PCI-E card for WiFi, or buy the 8265 M.2 WiFi module and a set of wires and antenna.

Note:
The ram I use is DDR4-3200, the G.Skill Trident Z

Other options are as follows:
Asus ROG Maximus X Hero (AC WiFi seems to be the only version currently available) -- suggested by someone who works in the industry, specifically nVidia, I believe.
Asus ROG STRIX Z370-H Gaming

The Strix Z370-H is the worst, if not one of the worst boards there. It's got bugger all in the way of VRM's and I just don't see the point in it?
post #353 of 1179
@ Blackspots
I feel like the Maximus X Hero is a board for people planning to use it on LN2 and can't afford the Apex when it launches ...
I can't see a good reason to pay the price premium over a properly cooled GBT Gaming 7 or Taichi at this time. Assuming it is 50A Optimos specs then 8 of them is up to 400A even at 70-100°C T_case (although dropping to V_GS=4.5V results in more like 19A-31A), so putting a monoblock on it isn't exactly going to provide a huge benefit since Z370 is a dead socket and none of these i7-8700ks are consuming even close to 400A unless it's exotic cooling not for daily use. For regular users , it's only two M.2 slots , has no dual BIOS (Z370 was rushed so it is a good feature).

People that love RGB and will use RGB monoblock (to level out the RGB VRM heatsink concerns) = Gaming 7 , the 60A rated ISL99227B x 8 should be able to do much more under extreme cooling instead of a RGB VRM heatsink
* Overbuilt VRM, see Intel x299 CPUs... Asrock uses 12 of these for the x299 Taichi and can do 320W of power output even with a shoddy heatsink so 8 of them for a mainstream Intel CPU is crazy

People that need features and affordability (i.e. as far as MSRP price) without fluff , likely custom water with copper radiator and a universal CPU block (not monoblock) = Taichi
* Originally it was suspected Taichi ran 8 phases of the Fairchild FDPC5030SG but it is 10 of them... so it's actually better than expected. The memory VRM is also using 2 phases of them, so it's better for memory than the GIgabyte board provided the software-side is done right. To put it into perspective eight of a similar, slightly stronger faster 40A max rated TI NexFET were used on mainstream ROG Extreme boards for Z170/Z270 & Asrock z270 Taichi.
* each FDPC5030SG is rated 35A at 100°C T_case and 56A at 25°C T_Case

People that will overclock on air/ closed loop water below ~220-250W TDP and don't need > 4000MHz memory or 3rd M.2 or wifi = Fatal1ty K6
* A big headscratcher is the VGA port... but other than that, I can't see anything major that sticks out

I wouldn't touch the Gigabyte z370 Aorus Gaming wifi. It appears to be lower in the product stack than the z370 Aorus Ultra Gaming

ASUS STRIX-H is a absolutely no. They've denied any future BIOS update for that board re: LLC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by punked256 View Post

set it to LLC level 2 and now it's very smooth... wow..., will do some more testing against PRO CARBON
I hope that was helpful until they patch it fully.

Many people complained that Asrock's LLC settings are the opposite of other vendors in terms of highest/lowest levels

vbezhenar, anything midrange (i.e. Asus Z370-A , Asrock Z370 Fatal1ty K6/Extreme4, MSI Z370 M5/Pro Carbon/SLI PLUS, Gigabyte Gaming 5) would work for you if you're looking at average air overclocks. Fatal1ty K6 is just a good bet since it's generally affordable for all markets.
Edited by AlphaC - 10/22/17 at 5:28pm
post #354 of 1179
@AlphaC,

In the UK the Hero X and Gaming 7 are the same price, sometimes the Hero X is cheaper £240-£250
The Taichi is only £30 less than the above 2.

Given the pricing there, what would you take?

P.s. I will be using a D14 SE2011 for the moment, then a EK Waterblock (Not Mono)
Edited by RustySpoons - 10/22/17 at 3:45pm
post #355 of 1179
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

@ Blackspots

People that will overclock on air/ closed loop water below ~220-250W TDP and don't need > 4000MHz memory or 3rd M.2 or wifi = Fatal1ty K6
* A big headscratcher is the VGA port... but other than that, I can't see anything major that sticks out.

So, basically my original choice of the Fatal1ty K6 was good. Don't really need to do heavy overclocking, but I would like to eventually do a closed loop water cooling system. Right now, on my Gigabyte G1 Gaming 6 Z170, I'm overclocking my Intel i5 6600K to 4.2GHz with no problems on air, and I am running 3200MHz RAM.
Edited by Blackspots - 10/22/17 at 4:36pm
post #356 of 1179
What amperage are Strix Z370-E & F fets rated at?
PURPLEHAZE
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post #357 of 1179
STRIX-E / F:
SiRA14dp: 15.8A at 70°C T_ambient and 46A at 70°C T_case
SiRA12dp: 20A at 70°C T_ambient and 53A at 70°C T_case

For reference, Z370-A :
4C09N (it's labeled 4C09B): 12.3A at 80°C T_ambient, 39A at 80°C T_case
4C06N (it's labeled 4C06B) : 14.9A at 80°C T_ambient, 52A at 80°C T_case
Edited by AlphaC - 10/22/17 at 5:16pm
post #358 of 1179
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

STRIX-E / F:
SiRA14dp: 15.8A at 70°C T_ambient and 46A at 70°C T_case
SiRA12dp: 20A at 70°C T_ambient and 53A at 70°C T_case

For reference, Z370-A :
4C09N (it's labeled 4C09B): 12.3A at 80°C T_ambient, 39A at 80°C T_case
4C06N (it's labeled 4C06B) : 14.9A at 80°C T_ambient, 52A at 80°C T_case

So for Strix E/F would it be the sum of both? 35.8A / 99A?
PURPLEHAZE
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post #359 of 1179
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

Nobody can suggest you a motherboard until you mention more specific needs. If all you mention is CPU overclocking, I'd say 9 times out of ten it is the Fatal1ty K6 recommendation.

If you mention you need a 3rd M.2 slot or USB 3.1 gen 2 front panel connector for example, then Taichi is the choice you need to make.

Once you add memory overclocking then Taichi , since the Taichi has a superior memory VRM that is only relevant once you pass ~ 3600MHz mem clock. If you look at OCUK, 8pack mentioned Taichi can hit as high a mem clock as Apex.

If you are looking for stability, I believe Taichi has been better supported than the rest of the Asrock range


VRM confirmation on MSI Z370 Pro Carbon

https://www.ocaholic.ch/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=4113&page=3
Other thoughts: MSI shouldn't have put Killer LAN on the Gaming M5...
i highly doubt the pro carbon is doubled 8 phases, while m5 is doubled.
post #360 of 1179
@bloot
Would be lower of the two , since the high side would limit it. The high side turns on when the low side turns off.

Would be 15.8A for the STRIX E/F per phase , x 8 = 126A absolute maximum current with ambient (i.e. around the mosfet area) assuming you can keep it at 70°C or less around the mosfet and allowing for 150°C junction temp

If you could cool the mosfet casing to below 70°C then you could pump out 46A per phase but only if allowing the junction temperature to reach 150°C

Keep in mind that those are manufacturer specs and not based off the rise/fall , RDS(on).

When I punched the numbers off the specsheet I obtained estimated 100°C without a heatsink using 100A and 1.4V (~140W). When I used 125A and 1.4V (~175W) without heatsink I obtained estimated 136°C , which is much too high. Accounting for minor losses that aren't able to be calculated directly without information for inductors, capacitors, etc you really need your heatsink to be useful.


@ asdkj1740 , if the Pro Carbon is using 2 mosfets per phase then the recommendation table will be adjusted tongue.gif
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