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[Guru3D] GeForce GTX 1070 Ti Launch Date October 26th + Specs and Details - Page 18  

post #171 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkIdeals View Post

lol. Well reviews for the cards say otherwise so I would challenge his asumptions tongue.gif (not to mention he's talking about those synthetic FS scores for the 1070 TI, not the 1070 or 1080 like you and I were. Furthermore, in those scores the 1070 TI is only a few percent below the 1080 and is still ~20%+ faster than a 980 TI)

https://hothardware.com/reviews/custom-geforce-gtx-1080-round-up-with-asus-evga-and-gigagyte?page=5

(This is a Reference/Founders 1080 and 1070 competing against a TITAN X which is faster than a founders 980 TI. So the same results apply to custom 1080/1070 vs custom 980 TI as they both overclock roughly the same distance from reference to custom)

...


I can go on.
Yeah I know what the reviews say, I think what is implied is what a person can OC their card to do and what performance they get from it. That's the gist I got out of it.
We have a good idea that 1070 TI will only go as high as it's boost clock. That's not the case with it's siblings. So I will keep a watchful eye on those reviews that show highest attainable OC vs the "gloss over" version with bar/line graphs only showing flame framerates.

I too can go on tongue.gif
post #172 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoast View Post

Yeah I know what the reviews say, I think what is implied is what a person can OC their card to do and what performance they get from it. That's the gist I got out of it.
We have a good idea that 1070 TI will only go as high as it's boost clock. That's not the case with it's siblings. So I will keep a watchful eye on those reviews that show highest attainable OC vs the "gloss over" version with bar/line graphs only showing flame framerates.

I too can go on tongue.gif

lol, except you can't. The evidence shows that all pascal cards surpass equivalent tier Maxwell ones in every way. And I've seen no legitimate evidence (rumor mill wccftech nonsense doesn't count) stating that a 1070 TI can't overclock beyond it's normal clocks, and frankly wouldn't believe anyway since the 1070 TI is based entirely on the same Pascal architecture using the exact same GP104 die as the 1070 and 1080 etc.. There's just no reason why it wouldn't behave identically for the most part. Unless you're talking about the fancy custom models which are pretty much always pre-boosted to near-max out of the box for every model, not just the 1070 TI. in which case my argument is still relevant as at stock vs stock 1070 beats 980 TI as well as an overclocked 1070 beating an overclocked 980 TI; add in those extra cores and units etc.. of the 1070 TI and even IF it can't overclock much it'd still be outdoing an overclocked 980 TI by several percent for significantly less cost.

That's not even mentioning that it makes ZERO sense for Nvidia to release a card that is MORE expensive than a 1070, then gimp it so that it can't overclock, meaning that your theory of 980 TI being as fast as it makes no sense. Think about it. If Nvidia did that to where the reference card was already at max clock speed possible and it was only as fast as an OC'd 980 TI then people would just buy a regular 1070 and OC that getting more performance for lower price. They'd never sell any 1070 TI's!

Furthermore none of this has anything to do with what you were talking about. You were implying that the entire pascal lineup was inferior because it didn't have the core count etc.. you wanted. I'm pointing out that cores and fill rate don't make the card, performance does. And these cards are shown time and time again by both users and reviewers to perform far better than what simple core counting would imply. You have to consider what all goes into a new generation of GPUs. There's a reason why it costs over a billion dollars in research and development cost to create each new generation! They input a lot of new technologies to optimize things so that larger dies and more cores aren't NEEDED to achieve higher performance. My whole point is - the only thing that matters is how powerful the cards are, not what has the biggest number like you're debating.
Edited by DarkIdeals - 10/22/17 at 3:42pm
 
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post #173 of 332
i'm pretty sure the current 1070Ti OC cap is simply a software limitation, not that its locked.
if i remember right, the other Pascal cards started that way too.
post #174 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkIdeals View Post

snip

Your idea is a bit misguided. My point, be it think you believe that I'm saying nvidia "sucks" or not is very simple. Before you buy a card thinking you are getting into entry level of enthusiasts find out 1st the sku stack to what you think you are buying. That way you don't get burnt with TI editions later on. You can go by arch, die size or gpu name to get an idea biggrin.gif.

Yes, I still believe this TI is what the 1070 should have been. Nothing will change that. Those who upgrade from a 1070 to a TI are simply buying twice. Mind as well wait for Volta. But this time with a keen sense of the potential of what the SKU stack will be. Educating yourself with the knowledge that if there is a huge gap in arch between the x70 and x80 you know a TI version will eventually fill that gap. Thus depreciating your current x70 that much more IMO.

As for the 1070 TI, IMO, this is what the 1070 should have been. But I don't need 8 hdmi, etc ports with 8 front plate screws though. LOL.
https://videocardz.com/73608/first-geforce-gtx-1070-ti-graphics-cards-listed-online
(at bottom of page)

And to further add to this point, you seem to lack any understanding how a GP106, GP104, GP102 actually create different tiers, price points and how it relates to CC/arch of the die for that gpu.
For example, you didn't indicate, in your rant, that you understood that the GTX 1070 & 1070 TI came from the same die, GP104. You won't (at least shouldn't) fine a 1060 using a GP104. It should be using a GP106 for example. Because that die, GP106 will never be used for a 1080 you will never see it priced at the tier. Or in your words, that performance. So your claim is baseless.

Also, had you paid an level of attention to the actual arch of the 1070 you would see, at least from my post that you skimmed through, a 1070 with only a 1920 CC. With the rest of the lineup in plan sight now. We clearly see that is really low for a GP104 die. A die capable of offering a 1080 with 2560 CC. Which leaves a huge gap. FOR? Yup you guessed it a 1070 TI added 1 SM/512CC.
What in the world could you possibly be defending from this is beyond whimsical.

Did you know that a online store has labeled the 1070 as EOL (End of Line)? Of course not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

i'm pretty sure the current 1070Ti OC cap is simply a software limitation, not that its locked.
if i remember right, the other Pascal cards started that way too.
Yeah, Im not sure what's he's on about. You should be able to manually overclock the ti. Problem it's possible to see reviews only showing the boost rate while the rest aren't limited to that. I'm looking forward towards reviews that add manually overclock the TI in their results.
Edited by EastCoast - 10/22/17 at 8:53pm
post #175 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

i'm pretty sure the current 1070Ti OC cap is simply a software limitation, not that its locked.
if i remember right, the other Pascal cards started that way too.


Well, if we consider the source for these reports of limitations are true (which is foolish since it's just tech-site rumors which are NOROTIOUS for being wrong) if you read the statements they say the reasoning is "so Nvidia doesn't cannibalize its own GTX 1080 sales". Meaning that the 1070 TI is so far ahead of the 1070 that if overclocked it could compete with a 1080. Meaning that it would still leave 980 TI's etc.. in the dust, beating even overclocked ones. like i had already figured. This is basic logic, which apparently is hard for some people. I mean, again, not only does Nvidia have to avoid cannibalizing 1080 sales, but also making the 1070 TI so redundant that people just buy custom 1070's and overclock those to be just as fast as the TI for less cash.
 
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post #176 of 332
wow look at those scores in time spy. If its matched up against AMD then they should be overclockable.
     
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post #177 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo_Morpheus View Post

wow look at those scores in time spy. If its matched up against AMD then they should be overclockable.

Yup they should be. But you will need to do it manually. That's why it's important for reviews to show more in the review that reflect the manual OC'ability of these cards,
post #178 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoast View Post

Your idea is a bit misguided. My point, be it think you believe that I'm saying nvidia "sucks" or not is very simple. Before you buy a card thinking you are getting into entry level of enthusiasts find out 1st the sku stack to what you think you are buying. That way you don't get burnt with TI editions later on. You can go by arch, die size or gpu name to get an idea biggrin.gif.

Yes, I still believe this TI is what the 1070 should have been. Nothing will change that. Those who upgrade from a 1070 to a TI are simply buying twice. Mind as well wait for Volta. But this time with a keen since of the potential of what the SKU stack will be.

As for the 1070 TI, IMO, this is what the 1070 should have been. But I don't need 8 hdmi, etc ports with 8 front plate screws though. LOL.

https://videocardz.com/73608/first-geforce-gtx-1070-ti-graphics-cards-listed-online
(at bottom of page)
Yeah, Im not sure what's he's on about. You should be able to manually overclock the ti. Problem it's possible to see reviews only showing the boost rate while the rest aren't limited to that. I'm looking forward towards reviews that add manually overclock the TI in their results.

You're the one who's "on about something" lol. I'm just correcting your misinformation that a card having less cuda cores makes it somehow inferior to older products with more cores. You were saying things like


"Problem is that 1080 (@2560CC)ain't up to snuff either though. As it lags behind the 980TI (@2816CC) in cuda cores."

"If anything, from an arch. standpoint the 1080 should have been superior to the 980ti going from an old gen to a newer one. IMO."


Saying "the 1080 should have been superior to the 980 TI" is just illogical, because the 1080 *IS* superior to the 980 TI. Just because it had 2,560 cores instead of 2,816 doesn't make it inferior. Again, PERFORMANCE is what matters, and the 1080 has ~25% gain on the 980 TI both at stock and when both are OC'd. I'm simply confused as to why you get hung up on numbers like they're the end-all-be-all of the GPU heirarchy.


As for overclocking the 1070 TI, you stated:

"We have a good idea that 1070 TI will only go as high as it's boost clock. That's not the case with it's siblings."

That seems to imply that you believed it couldn't be pushed past standard boost, i.e. not manually increased. And that it was somehow different from the previous pascal cards. Now you're saying the opposite. So your change of opinion is a bit whiplash-ey.

And the reason why reviews use standard boost clocks in most cases is to keep things consistent; although I definitely agree that they should also show overclocked results (which many sites do, just not all)
Edited by DarkIdeals - 10/22/17 at 4:00pm
 
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post #179 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkIdeals View Post

You're the one who's "on about something" lol. I'm just correcting your misinformation that a card having less cuda cores makes it somehow inferior to older products with more cores. You were saying things like
Lol wut?
Nvidia has always used a more brute force approach to their arch. For you to imply otherwise clearly demonstrates a lack of understanding on your part.
Pop quiz what's the CC going from 1070 to 1070 TI?
Here's another pop quiz. What are the boost clock rates of the 1070 and 1070 tI? I'll give you time to google it
Since we are in a thread discussing the 1070 ti after all. wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkIdeals View Post

That seems to imply that you believed it couldn't be pushed past standard boost, i.e. not manually increased. And that it was somehow different from the previous pascal cards. Now you're saying the opposite. So your change of opinion is a bit whiplash-ey.

And the reason why reviews use standard boost clocks in most cases is to keep things consistent; although I definitely agree that they should also show overclocked results (which many sites do, just not all)
LOL stop fishing. You don't understand the basic differences between a 1070 and 1070 TI. You don't know what the boost clock is for both ( by your responses).
From the reports given so far, the 1070 TI won't go past it's boost clock by itself. Nothing you mentioned from what you think I implied says anything about manual OC'ing.
But to be clear, since you didn't read my other posts. You should be to manually overclock the card given the information we have so far.

It's clear that the 1070 TI will cannibalize 1080 sales and make the 1070 a moot card.
I'm not sure why you are so upset about it. It is what it is...
biggrin.gif
post #180 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkIdeals View Post

I think your memory of Fermi-era and prior is a bit fuzzy. The very first TITAN card (keplar 600 series) was still a $1000 card, so you can't include that at all in this scenario first off, especially as 200,400 etc... series didn't even have a TITAN, it had an x80 card that die-size wise was partway between the size of a current x80 card and current x80 TI card. That being said, using your logic it'd be far more accurate so say that a 1080 TI (due to the x80 TI of modern times being a bit higher/equivalent to the regular older gen x80 in die size and core count differences etc..) should be $500, the 1080 should be below that at $350, 1070 below that at $220, 1060 at $180, 1050 TI at $130 and 1050 at $100.

This fits perfectly with launch date pricing of Fermi cards: https://www.anandtech.com/show/4344/nvidias-geforce-gtx-560-top-to-bottom-overclock You'll see here that the unusually cheap GTX 460 went for $160 whereas the updated 560 went for $199; i paid $185 for my Gigabyte 660 back in the day which reflects launch pricing pretty well too; so a ~175-180 USD price for x60 cards matches perfectly, and therefore the rest would seem solid as well.

I think you don't know what you are talking about. Titan uses the same tier die as GTX 480/580 (GF100/GF110 vs GK110), GTX 680/670 use GTX 460/560 tier dies(GF104 vs GK104), and so on. GTX 465, which is the same tier as the 1070 Ti (3rd cut from the 100/110/102 series die) was $280. GP100 is the only chip that is head and shoulders ouside the classical NV GPU stack leaving GP102 in the space normally reserved for the 100/110 series.

Your 660 was equivalent in tier to a 450/550 silicon wise, just with a higher price tag/model number slapped on. It should have been a $130 GTS 650. If you compare the die size to a GTS 450 Its pretty much the same.

After Fermi NV moved the entire GPU stack up by one in order to create the Titan tier.
Edited by KarathKasun - 10/22/17 at 7:48pm
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