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will pci8x bottleneck 1080ti?

post #1 of 9
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i want to use it in the 8x slot because it looks cleaner and ypu can see the ssd


post #2 of 9
Not really but you can always test it.
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post #3 of 9
I have mine in an x8 slot. Not really a difference here. Synthetic test results are within your typical variances on x8 vs x16. You'll have to go lower than x8 to get more noticeable performance drops unless you're messing with multiple cards where those differences usually stack more noticeably (considering no cpu bottlenecking, good sli/cfx scaling and low driver overhead).

It's amazing how 2.0 x16 can still provide enough bandwidth for flagship graphics cards a decade later, and now we're getting pcie 4.0 which is four times that of 2.0. I guess it'll be safe to say that Intel's sparse use of PCIe lanes won't really matter when they incorporate 4.0, but I digress tongue.gif
Edited by airisom2 - 9/30/17 at 4:11pm
post #4 of 9
I have two 1080tis with a 4790k and even lowering my overclock to 4.5ghz on the CPU (otherwise I can't fold and use Plex at the same time, CPU is just too hot at 4.8ghz 1.34v with two 1080tis on air coolers folding, my CPU will overheat and crash instantly). I have no bottleneck in any of the games I've tried and they both run at PCI-E 3.0 x8. My CPU is 4 years old too. This is at my resolution of 5760x1080 60hz with Smooth Vsync on, however. In which case everything is extremely GPU bound because of the high resolution.

In short the answer is no. PCI-E 3.0 x8 is equivalent to PCI-E 2.0 x16 and there is no graphics card on the market yet that even needs more bandwidth than this. However, it honestly depends more on what resolution, frame rate and so forth that you are using more than PCI-E itself (i.e. a single 1080ti OC'ed but running at 1080p 60Hz WILL be bottlenecked and you will lose performance or have a bottleneck because quite simply, you are totally CPU bound in that scenario, and a 1080ti is not necessary.) The only scenario in which PCI-E bandwidth/lanes might be a problem is if you are doing quad SLI Titan XPs or RX Vegas (or whatever AMD card people would do quad CrossFireX with). Mining rigs even are having special motherboards made now specifically to allow for 6 RX 580s or whatever on a single board/processor and still having the PCI-E bandwidth to drive them.

Remember, if your CPU is at 100% all cores and GPU is not loaded fully, then yes you have a CPU bottleneck (and possibly a PCI-E one). This will result in less performance and lower frame rates. If you have your GPUs at 100% and the CPU at low usage but get bad performance, low frame rates, etc. then you have a "GPU bottleneck", at least in the case that your cards are too weak for that framerate/resolution/game/quality settings. (As an example, when I had Crossfire R9 380X Nitro a year or so ago, and was trying to to play The Witcher 3 Ultra with SSAO, post processing, etc. at 5760x1080, the cards choked and could not maintain 60 fps despite being loaded at 100%, because they were simply too weak.) People generally know and buy GPUs that are appropriate for the resolution and framerate they are trying to drive, so in my example, yes I knew my cards (the R9 380X pair) couldn't do it. Even in that case though they ran many older AAA games that support Crossfire perfectly fine, it was the demanding stuff like Witcher 3, Crysis 3, Far Cry Primal, etc. maxed out that they choked on. In general this is why people are never concerned about a "GPU bottleneck" though that is technically what it is, they are generally more worried about a CPU bottleneck (e.g. the CPU being too weak, slow, old, not enough PCI-E lanes, to drive the graphics subsystem in full).

I hope all this makes sense.

TL;DR no. A single 1080ti will not be bottlenecked by PCI-E bandwidth unless you're trying to use it on an ancient CPU with PCI-E 1.0, or not enough single thread power to feed it (say pairing a 1080ti with a Phenom II x4 or Core 2 Quad, you would have a major CPU bottleneck here regardless of resolution, but PCI-E speed would probably have nothing to do with it). The bigger issue here is more that the 1080ti is meant for 2560x1440p 60hz MINIMUM or something like 1080p 144hz or 240hz (when paired with a CPU (Intel) with very fast single thread performance)). The 1080ti is a 4K card or was at least designed to be used with higher resolutions/frame rates. With most games even now, a 1080ti is totally wasted at 1080p 60Hz. But in general no, PCI-E 3.0 x8 just doesn't matter, I think that bottlenecks are very situational and depend more on CPU, manufacturer, whether the game is single or multi threaded, resolution, which game, quality settings... concern yourself more with all that than with the PCI-E bandwidth or lanes. Especially with just a single card, it is a non-issue.

Hope this helps. smile.gif
Edited by neurotix - 9/30/17 at 4:36pm
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post #5 of 9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neurotix View Post

I have two 1080tis with a 4790k and even lowering my overclock to 4.5ghz on the CPU (otherwise I can't fold and use Plex at the same time, CPU is just too hot at 4.8ghz 1.34v with two 1080tis on air coolers folding, my CPU will overheat and crash instantly). I have no bottleneck in any of the games I've tried and they both run at PCI-E 3.0 x8. My CPU is 4 years old too. This is at my resolution of 5760x1080 60hz with Smooth Vsync on, however. In which case everything is extremely GPU bound because of the high resolution.

In short the answer is no. PCI-E 3.0 x8 is equivalent to PCI-E 2.0 x16 and there is no graphics card on the market yet that even needs more bandwidth than this. However, it honestly depends more on what resolution, frame rate and so forth that you are using more than PCI-E itself (i.e. a single 1080ti OC'ed but running at 1080p 60Hz WILL be bottlenecked and you will lose performance or have a bottleneck because quite simply, you are totally CPU bound in that scenario, and a 1080ti is not necessary.) The only scenario in which PCI-E bandwidth/lanes might be a problem is if you are doing quad SLI Titan XPs or RX Vegas (or whatever AMD card people would do quad CrossFireX with). Mining rigs even are having special motherboards made now specifically to allow for 6 RX 580s or whatever on a single board/processor and still having the PCI-E bandwidth to drive them.

Remember, if your CPU is at 100% all cores and GPU is not loaded fully, then yes you have a CPU bottleneck (and possibly a PCI-E one). This will result in less performance and lower frame rates. If you have your GPUs at 100% and the CPU at low usage but get bad performance, low frame rates, etc. then you have a "GPU bottleneck", at least in the case that your cards are too weak for that framerate/resolution/game/quality settings. (As an example, when I had Crossfire R9 380X Nitro a year or so ago, and was trying to to play The Witcher 3 Ultra with SSAO, post processing, etc. at 5760x1080, the cards choked and could not maintain 60 fps despite being loaded at 100%, because they were simply too weak.) People generally know and buy GPUs that are appropriate for the resolution and framerate they are trying to drive, so in my example, yes I knew my cards (the R9 380X pair) couldn't do it. Even in that case though they ran many older AAA games that support Crossfire perfectly fine, it was the demanding stuff like Witcher 3, Crysis 3, Far Cry Primal, etc. maxed out that they choked on. In general this is why people are never concerned about a "GPU bottleneck" though that is technically what it is, they are generally more worried about a CPU bottleneck (e.g. the CPU being too weak, slow, old, not enough PCI-E lanes, to drive the graphics subsystem in full).

I hope all this makes sense.

TL;DR no. A single 1080ti will not be bottlenecked by PCI-E bandwidth unless you're trying to use it on an ancient CPU with PCI-E 1.0, or not enough single thread power to feed it (say pairing a 1080ti with a Phenom II x4 or Core 2 Quad, you would have a major CPU bottleneck here regardless of resolution, but PCI-E speed would probably have nothing to do with it). The bigger issue here is more that the 1080ti is meant for 2560x1440p 60hz MINIMUM or something like 1080p 144hz or 240hz (when paired with a CPU (Intel) with very fast single thread performance)). The 1080ti is a 4K card or was at least designed to be used with higher resolutions/frame rates. With most games even now, a 1080ti is totally wasted at 1080p 60Hz. But in general no, PCI-E 3.0 x8 just doesn't matter, I think that bottlenecks are very situational and depend more on CPU, manufacturer, whether the game is single or multi threaded, resolution, which game, quality settings... concern yourself more with all that than with the PCI-E bandwidth or lanes. Especially with just a single card, it is a non-issue.

Hope this helps. smile.gif
thanks for the info
i have a ryzen 1700 at 3.8 will try to get it higher
will ryzen 1700 bottleneck 1080ti?
post #6 of 9
Thread Starter 
lol
post #7 of 9
Sorry I didn't respond yesterday.

No it will not, but again it depends on the resolution and refresh rate.

With games like CS:GO, Overwatch, and so on at 1080p 144hz or 240hz then yes, you will maintain a higher framerate with Intel in that case. Not only average framerate but minimums.

However, in any other situation (e.g. higher resolution, lower refresh rate, 1440p 60Hz, 4K 60Hz, Surround 60Hz, Ultrawide 60Hz) then no, because Ryzen is more than fast enough (and on par with Broadwell IPC, possibly Skylake IPC when paired with DDR4 3600MHz memory) to feed a 1080ti and those resolutions are totally GPU bound.

So basically no, unless you are a competitive gamer and play at very refresh rates and framerates, in which case the newest, fastest Intel chip (7700k, 8700k) are still preferred and give better performance.

Again it all varies depending on game, resolution, refresh rate, etc. Your Ryzen 7 1700 @ 3.8GHz should be sufficient. If you want higher framerates (and higher minimum framerates, which are more important) I would recommend getting faster memory (DDR4-3200 and above). This requires the latest Ryzen bios and a higher end board to achieve and from what I've heard (second-hand) it is difficult and tough to stabilize, but brings Ryzen up to being on par with Skylake at the very least.

EDIT: As an addendum (especially for anyone else reading) you should choose your CPU and GPU based on what games you are going to play at what resolution and detail settings. Simple as that. You don't need a 1080ti (or probably even a 1070 or R9 Fury/RX Vega) for 1080p 60Hz, a GTX 1060 or RX 570/580 would be more than enough, especially overclocked. Probably for 2-3 years or longer at that resolution if you are willing to reduce graphics quality settings for any newer, very demanding games that come out. (Metro 2033 which is from 2010- maxed out it seems to put more demand on my dual 1080tis than Witcher 3. Might be because of tessellation settings as that game was essentially a huge DirectX11 demo afaik. Just goes to show how it really depends on the game and resolution.)

Hope this helps.
Edited by neurotix - 10/1/17 at 3:07pm
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post #8 of 9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neurotix View Post

Sorry I didn't respond yesterday.

No it will not, but again it depends on the resolution and refresh rate.

With games like CS:GO, Overwatch, and so on at 1080p 144hz or 240hz then yes, you will maintain a higher framerate with Intel in that case. Not only average framerate but minimums.

However, in any other situation (e.g. higher resolution, lower refresh rate, 1440p 60Hz, 4K 60Hz, Surround 60Hz, Ultrawide 60Hz) then no, because Ryzen is more than fast enough (and on par with Broadwell IPC, possibly Skylake IPC when paired with DDR4 3600MHz memory) to feed a 1080ti and those resolutions are totally GPU bound.

So basically no, unless you are a competitive gamer and play at very refresh rates and framerates, in which case the newest, fastest Intel chip (7700k, 8700k) are still preferred and give better performance.

Again it all varies depending on game, resolution, refresh rate, etc. Your Ryzen 7 1700 @ 3.8GHz should be sufficient. If you want higher framerates (and higher minimum framerates, which are more important) I would recommend getting faster memory (DDR4-3200 and above). This requires the latest Ryzen bios and a higher end board to achieve and from what I've heard (second-hand) it is difficult and tough to stabilize, but brings Ryzen up to being on par with Skylake at the very least.

EDIT: As an addendum (especially for anyone else reading) you should choose your CPU and GPU based on what games you are going to play at what resolution and detail settings. Simple as that. You don't need a 1080ti (or probably even a 1070 or R9 Fury/RX Vega) for 1080p 60Hz, a GTX 1060 or RX 570/580 would be more than enough, especially overclocked. Probably for 2-3 years or longer at that resolution if you are willing to reduce graphics quality settings for any newer, very demanding games that come out. (Metro 2033 which is from 2010- maxed out it seems to put more demand on my dual 1080tis than Witcher 3. Might be because of tessellation settings as that game was essentially a huge DirectX11 demo afaik. Just goes to show how it really depends on the game and resolution.)

Hope this helps.
i mostly play fps bf4 and combat arms pubg and stuff
at 2560×1440 144hz
i woukd go intel rpute but dont like the chipset and mobo changes especially when it seems like 8 core i7 mainstream will need new chipset and mobo
im gonna bet on ryzen and that with 12nm and 7nm they will catch or exceed intel
post #9 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcgaming247 View Post

i mostly play fps bf4 and combat arms pubg and stuff
at 2560×1440 144hz
i woukd go intel rpute but dont like the chipset and mobo changes especially when it seems like 8 core i7 mainstream will need new chipset and mobo
im gonna bet on ryzen and that with 12nm and 7nm they will catch or exceed intel

Yeah in your case I would recommend Intel but I think at those framerates, that's when people really like G-Sync or Freesync monitors. Probably the best investment if you don't have it already. Would probably make CPU choice irrelevant.

I still think at that res and framerate, your 1080ti will probably always be loaded 100% especially in Battlefield, which afaik is one of the few games to use many threads well, especially in multiplayer. Graphically intense enough too (e.g. a lot moreso than CS:GO, Overwatch, even if you lower settings to get high fps) I've played Battlefield of course but just for the campaign... tongue.gif The only games I'm competitive at are ancient late 90s/early 2000s arcade games (Street Fighter, King of Fighters and the like) I retired from that years ago though. I'm an old man and was never fantastic at them or anything either.

I'm an... RPG player and not really a competitive gamer at all anymore, and definitely not multiplayer FPS games. So immersion means more to me, Witcher 3 maxed out (or Dragon Age Inquisition) in Surround at 60Hz just improves the experience greatly, though I've never really tried gaming above 60Hz. I just know the type of system and things you need to do it from how much I'm on here.

I'd go for a 7700k @ 5.2GHz (hopefully), probably from SiliconLottery, delidded, and try to get the RAM running at 4133MHz (or better) if I wanted that res and framerate. This would probably be quite expensive to do. I'd still say that for most games like that and that high refresh rate, that very fast single thread performance and very fast memory (and CPU cache...) are better than more threads. But that's not a popular opinion since Ryzen. I won't be able to find the benchmarks but yeah, 144Hz will have much higher framerates (especially minimums) and I've seen Ryzen vs Intel tested on some website in that exact same scenario, even my venerable 4790k was getting 40 fps more than Ryzen in some games, with better minimums, with both at stock. ( @ 144Hz) This may be irrelevant now because those benches were done before BIOS fixes when Ryzen first came out, and it was struggling vs Intel at 1080p. I don't think the single thread does it as much as the much faster cache on Intel chips but most people don't test it using AIDA64 cache and memory speed test (generally Intel has much, much faster cache with lower latency). I'm not biased either, for a long time I ran a FX-8350 @ 5GHz but I like to benchmark too and was sick of lower benchmark scores using AMD (which is actually a software thing as the benchmarks themselves are compiled using Intel only optimizations, making them perform poorly on anything not Intel.)

I do totally get the socket change stuff, it's disgusting. We just got my wife a Z270 board and a 7600k right before Ryzen came out (she plays at 1080p 60Hz and prefers console ports... single thread, even with just a 4 core, is more important). Now I find out an 8700k or 8600k won't work in it. Personally I'm waiting/aiming for Icelake (2019, possibly 2020, Intel 10nm+ because at least it's twice as small as my Haswell (22nm) though it probably will not be twice as fast, I will have more threads. This 4790k still has no problems with anything I throw at it even with two 1080tis... probably because most RPGs, even Witcher 3, still don't load my threads fully).

Either way if this is too much info....don't worry. You're set and your Ryzen is more than sufficient for your 1080ti, also since it is 1440p 144Hz instead of 1080p the 1080ti will be made to work much harder, meaning you are not under or over specced for your resolution and framerate. The Ryzen should not be a problem because the situation is GPU bound (and probably even the 1080ti will struggle in some games, or maybe in a year or two (next Battlefield game) at 1440p 60Hz... but I digress, Call it a day. (And for a single card on a modern chipset and platform, PCI-E speed and bandwidth does not matter.) Best regards, if you have any other questions feel free to ask and I will do my best to answer. smile.gif

P.S. Oh and remember as long as it does what you need it to do... it's sufficient. you can always compromise too as the system ages and lower settings more or possibly even resolution (but keep the framerate) to maintain higher fps. Even a few years ago certain sites would lower resolution to 1024x768 with the lowest settings in a game because then it becomes totally CPU bottlenecked regardless of graphics card (they did this to test CPU performance in gaming, usually was Intel vs AMD as it has been since the 90s).
Edited by neurotix - 10/2/17 at 12:45am
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i7 4790k delid 5ghz ASUS ROG Maximus VI Hero BIOS 1603 EVGA 1080ti FTW3 2012/5805 MHz EVGA 1080ti FTW3 2012/5805 MHz 
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8GB G.SKILL TridentX 2666mhz 10-12-12-31 2T 1.7v Samsung 840 Evo 256GB SATA 3 2TB WD Black 7200rpm SATA 3 (Games) 4TB WD Blue 5400rpm SATA 3 (Media) 
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Logitech + Turtle Beach amp Custom acrylic PSU cover "Big Red" (v1tech) Custom acrylic drive cage cover "Folding@Home" ... Merax Racing Chair (Red/Black) 
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Corsair K70 LUX red LED keyboard (Cherry MX Red) 
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i5-7600k 4.7ghz 1.26v ASUS ROG Z270H Strix Sapphire R9 380X Nitro 1200/1500mhz G.skill Ripjaws4 DDR4-3000 CAS15 
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WD Caviar Blue Lite On DVD-RW Cooler Master TX3 Corsair SP120 Exhaust 
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Big Red
(25 items)
 
Big Blue?
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Green
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 4790k delid 5ghz ASUS ROG Maximus VI Hero BIOS 1603 EVGA 1080ti FTW3 2012/5805 MHz EVGA 1080ti FTW3 2012/5805 MHz 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
8GB G.SKILL TridentX 2666mhz 10-12-12-31 2T 1.7v Samsung 840 Evo 256GB SATA 3 2TB WD Black 7200rpm SATA 3 (Games) 4TB WD Blue 5400rpm SATA 3 (Media) 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Lite-on 20x DVD-RW/BD-ROM Corsair H100i V2 + PK-3 Nano Corsair SP120s red LED (radiator) Corsair SP140 red LED 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1 3x ASUS VC239H IPS Slim Bezel Eyefinity Ducky DKC-1008 "Overclock.net Edition" w/ dampe... Cooler Master V1000 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair 780T (Black- painted red fan grills) ZELOTES T-90 Corsair Polaris Creative SupremeFX onboard 
OtherOtherOtherOther
Logitech + Turtle Beach amp Custom acrylic PSU cover "Big Red" (v1tech) Custom acrylic drive cage cover "Folding@Home" ... Merax Racing Chair (Red/Black) 
Other
Corsair K70 LUX red LED keyboard (Cherry MX Red) 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-7600k 4.7ghz 1.26v ASUS ROG Z270H Strix Sapphire R9 380X Nitro 1200/1500mhz G.skill Ripjaws4 DDR4-3000 CAS15 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Western Digital Caviar Blue 320gb Samsung 850 Evo 256gb Corsair H60 Win10 Home 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
2x ASUS V236H 1080p Corsair K70 Lux Blue LED Cherry MX Blue OCZ ModXStream Pro 500w Thermaltake Core V71 
MouseMouse Pad
Cooler Master Thermaltake GAMMA 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 stock ASUS ROG Crosshair V Formula Sapphire R5 230 G.skill TridentX DDR3 2400mhz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingCooling
WD Caviar Blue Lite On DVD-RW Cooler Master TX3 Corsair SP120 Exhaust 
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Win7 Ultimate X64 ASUS V236H 1080p 23" OCZ ModXStream Pro 500W Corsair C70 
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