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[ExtremeTech] Intel Will No Longer Provide Per-Core Turbo Frequencies, Making Motherboard Tuning Impossible - Page 2

post #11 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

I understand that, but they still guarantee that, out of these two 6C/6T CPUS for example, the i5-8600K will operate at a base speed of 3.6 Ghz and the i5-8400 at 2.8 Ghz, thus they know how to summarize all those conditions into a single number for a given CPU model regardless of the applications run or motherboard where it's installed (there are minimum technical guidelines for that for a reason, just like budget B350 AMD boards are required to provide a minimum of 128w to the CPU).

Considering that non-official all core Turbo of 3.8 Ghz for the i5-8400, I'd take that unofficial number as needing a meaningful number of retail parts tested by consumers to validate, otherwise I'll just take Intel's 2.8 Ghz word and assume that the reason for not disclosing numbers is that they binned these chips a lot and all sorts of hexacore quality can be found at lower than 8700K tier. I'd say even at the 8700K level, considering how far they are pushing clocks.

And that also means taking all of these reviews with a grain of salt.
It'll be up to forum users to make up databases of what retail chips are actually capable of in practice.

Well, this news explains the more than normal differences in between results from various sites for benchmarks that measure the full power of a CPU, like cinebench.

I don't know, it worries me ALOT that no review sites whatsoever have disclosed or mentioned this new "deal". Bother me even more when you think no one really cares about base clocks and uneducated folks almost always assumed that the highest turbo worked on all cores.

The turbo on all cores is one of if the most meaningful data about a processor, specially for those processors that are locked.

This is no little deal.
Edited by virpz - 10/6/17 at 11:09am
post #12 of 63
The all core turbo will be heavily limited by thermals / chip quality.

Because Coffee Lake was rushed , Intel probably could not bin that well.

What will likely happen is after a while we will see i5-8500 or something in between the i5-8400 and i5-8600K.
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post #13 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

But that would complicate things.
They will need to test the CPUs in every single possible condition just to test when and how the turbo kicks in, and in so, they are giving away all of their turbo performance algorithms.
It is easy to say "yes the CPU can turbo, but don't expect anything" and get this over with.

They already test the CPUs in every single possible condition, that's how they determine that the i5-8600K can work on all cores at a base of 3.6 Ghz, for example, while the i5-8400 can only do 2.8 Ghz. The news here is that this is all that they want to guarantee now. The problem may be if certain sites got samples that do better than retail ones. That's what we have to see going forward with retail samples in users' hands.

It's still a wondrous thing to see how competition shook things up; in nine months within the same year we went from a 4C/4T 7600K costing $242.00 - $243.00 to a 6C/6T 8600K costing $257.00 while at the same time seeing the messed up lineup and now even more questionably set up than before with the X299 platform currently selling a 4C/4T i5-7640X for $242.00 - $243.00.


Quote:
Originally Posted by virpz View Post

Well, this news explains the more than normal differences in between results from various sites for benchmarks that measure the full power of a CPU, like cinebench.

I don't know, it worries me ALOT that no review sites whatsoever have disclosed or mentioned this new "deal". Bother me even more when you think no one really cares about base clocks and uneducated folks almost always assumed that the highest turbo worked on all cores.

The turbo on all cores is one of if the most meaningful data about a processor, specially for those processors that are locked.

This is no little deal.

Exactly. I mentioned the i5-8400 specifically in my first post because of two factors: for the price it seems positioned as a competitor to the best seller Ryzen 5 1600 while at the same time is the biggest target for variance. 2.8 Ghz base with a supposed all core turbo of 3.8 Ghz. Depending on how a retail sample actually performs, it may be a decent deal or not really.
Edited by tpi2007 - 10/6/17 at 12:05pm
 
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post #14 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by virpz View Post

As far as I understand it, now you can't compare processors of the same model MT performance wise.

So, how review sites are going to deal with that ?

One 8700K turbo to all cores at 4.3GHz while the next goes all the way up to 4.7GHz.

How can you review a product like that ?

Don't worry ALL reviewers in this case would recieve chips easily capable of 4.7GHz on all cores rolleyes.gif
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post #15 of 63
Avoid Coffee Lake like the plague, got it. thumb.gif
post #16 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

same way they do a gpu review, screen shot clock speed(s) under load and state, "this is what our sample clocked at." thumb.gif

How many actually do that though? Most GPU reviews boast about peak frequencies and don't really dive into sustained frequencies...



I have a feeling this has more to do with upcoming Ryzen products than anything else. Since Ryzen IPC is already within 10% of current Intel offerings, if Intel can't claim higher frequencies over all cores, it would open them up for marketing exploits by AMD.


Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post

Avoid Coffee Lake like the plague, got it. thumb.gif

First it was X299, now it is Z370... Wonder what atrocities we will see on Z390...
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post #17 of 63

I don't get it.Does that mean we have random result from various Reviews? specially 8700K ?

post #18 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo4shO View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

same way they do a gpu review, screen shot clock speed(s) under load and state, "this is what our sample clocked at." thumb.gif

How many actually do that though? Most GPU reviews boast about peak frequencies and don't really dive into sustained frequencies...


Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I have a feeling this has more to do with upcoming Ryzen products than anything else. Since Ryzen IPC is already within 10% of current Intel offerings, if Intel can't claim higher frequencies over all cores, it would open them up for marketing exploits by AMD.


Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post

Avoid Coffee Lake like the plague, got it. thumb.gif

First it was X299, now it is Z370... Wonder what atrocities we will see on Z390...
many that i read* do, i guess we don't look at the same reviews.


*yes read, not watch tongue.gif
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post #19 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

many that i read* do, i guess we don't look at the same reviews.


*yes read, not watch tongue.gif

The only one that comes to mind is Anandtech. And no, they don't have videos.

The only review videos I do listen (yes, listen and not watch) to are from OC3D since Tom Logan always provides depth within the video review.
Edited by Slomo4shO - 10/6/17 at 1:54pm
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post #20 of 63
PCper is usually good esp for a new gpu and TPU has a graph of common clocks/voltage on the overclocking page . . they're there if one looks. thumb.gif
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