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CPU cooling in 2017: AIO vs Air cooling?

40K views 684 replies 58 participants last post by  ciarlatano 
#1 ·
Hello, how are you?
I was searching the web on the subject and I keep finding lots of posts and discussions about this.
I keep finding that AIO coolers are only for aesthetics as top air coolers deliver about the same performance while beeing quiet and more reliable.

But what I find are posts and discussions from 2013 and 2014w when the best AIOs where the Corsair h115 and such.

Meanwhile thee have been many new AIO models released and I guess the technology probably is better now.
On the air coolers, there haven't really been nothing new for a couple of years and the top performers then, like the Noctua D15or the IB-e extreme are still the best air coolers today.

So I ask this, how is the situation today? Have AIO caught up and are air coolers now obsolete in performance terms?

thanks.
cheers!
 
#2 ·
First off, don't confuse all AIOs with CLCs. AIOs are All in One liquid cooling that at present time include 2 kinds of pre-build and filled liquid coolers; AIOs that are CLCs and AIO that are not CLCs. CLCs are assembled is ways that meke them near impossible to repair with no way of topping off coolant. Almost all CLCs are made by 2 companies; Asetek (who owns the USA patent rights to LCLC and CLC concept of a pump mounted on waterblock) and IDCooling. There are 2 basic low cost pump designs that are basically the same flowing about 40-60 liter per hour coolant through low cost aluminum radiators that require high airflow to cool well. By comparison the pumps in AIOs flow significantly more coolant, use copper radiators, threaded fittings, fill port and are much better made. Swiftech H series pumps flow up to 660 liter per hour and Alphacool OEM AIO pumps flow 72-100 liter per hour. Alphacool OEM are their own Eibear, Fractal Design Kelvin and be quiet! Slent Loop.

As a comparison the D5 pump (arguable the most popular custom loop pump) flows up to 1500 liter per hour.

In all honesty there have has been little to no improvement in the most commonly sold CLCs . They depend on different looking pump covers, fancy fans, and other bling to promote new models. People jumped on the CLC wagon because they were able to have 'water cooling' without really understanding that the only thing CLCs and real water cooling have in common is 'water'.
tongue.gif
Many who still push the CLC hype do so with no understanding of how much different and better real water cooling is. Many think airflow ratings are key to how well a fan performs when the reality is fan pressure rating is more important than airflow rating ..but that's another story.

A good air cooler and case fans cost less than a wonky CLC, will cool better, will be way more dependable, will be quieter, and the only thing that might go bad in 5-8 years is the fans and they can be replaced without braking the bank.

Short version; Get a good case, some good case fans and an air cooler to "Live long and prosper."
biggrin.gif
 
#3 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

First off, don't confuse all AIOs with CLCs. AIOs are All in One liquid cooling that at present time include 2 kinds of pre-build and filled liquid coolers; AIOs that are CLCs and AIO that are not CLCs. CLCs are assembled is ways that meke them near impossible to repair with no way of topping off coolant. Almost all CLCs are made by 2 companies; Asetek (who owns the USA patent rights to LCLC and CLC concept of a pump mounted on waterblock) and IDCooling. There are 2 basic low cost pump designs that are basically the same flowing about 40-60 liter per hour coolant through low cost aluminum radiators that require high airflow to cool well. By comparison the pumps in AIOs flow significantly more coolant, use copper radiators, threaded fittings, fill port and are much better made. Swiftech H series pumps flow up to 660 liter per hour and Alphacool OEM AIO pumps flow 72-100 liter per hour. Alphacool OEM are Ftheir own Eibear, Fractal Design Kelvin and be quiet! Slent Loop.

As a comparison the D5 pump (arguable the most popular custom loop pump) flows up to 1500 liter per hour.

In all honesty there have has been little to no improvement in the most commonly sold CLCs . They depend on different looking pump covers, fancy fans, and other bling to promote new models. People jumped on the CLC wagon because they were able to have 'water cooling' without really understanding that the only thing CLCs and real water cooling have in common is 'water'.
tongue.gif
Many who still push the CLC hype do so with no understanding of how much different and better real water cooling is. Many think airflow ratings are key to how well a fan performs when the reality is fan pressure rating is more important than airflow rating ..but that's another story.

A good air cooler and case fans cost less than a wonky CLC, will cool better, will be way more dependable, will be quieter, and the only thing that might go bad in 5-8 years is the fans and they can be replaced without braking the bank.

Short version; Get a good case, some good case fans and an air cooler to "Live long and prosper."
biggrin.gif
Thank you for taking the time to write such a complete answer.
So, all those corsair, nzxt, arctic cooling and such are all the same with those weak pumps and not so good performance.
But what about the other types?
Like the bequiet ones with the cooper radiators and different pumps?
How do they compare to a top air cooler like a D15?

Also, why aren't there any new top air coolers being launched?

Cheers!
 
#4 ·
Just much easier to build with a AIO than big cooler like D15 these days. The performance these days is about the same. It mostly depends in the fans used and how laud you want them.
 
#5 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdourado View Post

Thank you for taking the time to write such a complete answer.
So, all those corsair, nzxt, arctic cooling and such are all the same with those weak pumps and not so good performance.
But what about the other types?
Like the bequiet ones with the cooper radiators and different pumps?
How do they compare to a top air cooler like a D15?

Also, why aren't there any new top air coolers being launched?

Cheers!
No problem.

What other types? There are only the AIOs like Swiftech, Alphacool, be quiet! and Fractal Design sell and CLCs like Corsair, Enermax, Lepa, Nzxt, etc. made by Asetek or Apaltek. There many be others, but I don't know of them. Asetek USA patents and now China patents have limited who can make what.
wink.gif


Here is link to who make what AIO and CLC
http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/60_20#post_23781217

And here is link to what I've been able to find about AIO and CLC pump and radiator specs.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/80_20#post_23828310

The AIOs like Silent Loop cool about same at about same noise level as big air coolers like D15 with case airflow setup properly.

Here is guide to setting up case airflow.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/0_20#post_22319249
 
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#6 ·
I was looking at the bequiet silent loop models.
From your post, they have a pump that puts 72l per hour.
That is about a fifth of the capacity of the pump a swiftech h220 x2 has.
The swiftech also has a stand alone reservoir.
How much better is the performance?
And how would you say it compares against a nh-d15?

Cheers
 
#7 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdourado View Post

I was looking at the bequiet silent loop models.
From your post, they have a pump that puts 72l per hour.
That is about a fifth of the capacity of the pump a swiftech h220 x2 has.
The swiftech also has a stand alone reservoir.
How much better is the performance?
And how would you say it compares against a nh-d15?

Cheers
Those do not make much of an difference.
 
#8 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

Just much easier to build with a AIO than big cooler like D15 these days. The performance these days is about the same. It mostly depends in the fans used and how laud you want them.
At like noise levels, performance is not about the same. Changing fans does not change the (inefficient) aluminum rad's need for more air. You may be able to get a slightly quieter fan, but the amount of air passing through the rad and the noise that makes to achieve the same result will stay the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdourado View Post

I was looking at the bequiet silent loop models.
From your post, they have a pump that puts 72l per hour.
That is about a fifth of the capacity of the pump a swiftech h220 x2 has.
The swiftech also has a stand alone reservoir.
How much better is the performance?
And how would you say it compares against a nh-d15?

Cheers
I know that @doyll has tested the BQ, while I have not. But I have tested the H220-X against the NH-D15:

 
#9 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdourado View Post

I was looking at the bequiet silent loop models.
From your post, they have a pump that puts 72l per hour.
That is about a fifth of the capacity of the pump a swiftech h220 x2 has.
The swiftech also has a stand alone reservoir.
How much better is the performance?
And how would you say it compares against a nh-d15?

Cheers
I'm using be quiet! Silent Loop 280 on one of my systems and love it! I've tested / tried many other AIO and CLC and Silent Loop is only one I've used for longer than it took to do the testing. I've never tried a Swiftech H series.

Swiftech reservoir is on the radiator.

Swiftech is best of the AIOs.

Silent Loop is as good as D15, but AIO is much more complicated bit of equipment than air coolers are, so obviously there are more thing that can and sometimes do go wrong with them .. which is why all but one of my systems are air cooled.
wink.gif


edit: ciarlatano's testing shows how good Swiftech 240 radiator is. Bigger radiator is a few degrees better.
 
#10 ·
The AIO have an aesthetic appeal that's for sure.
But an air cooler like a silverarrow with two ty 143 fans can also look nice.

I am starting to get interested in the swiftech also, the more I read about it.
But it is expensive. The h240 is 170 euros.
100 more than a d15.

I don't know of it is worth it.
I am thinking about getting an 8700k, and from reviews, that chip gets hot overclocked...

Cheers
 
#11 ·
Since you guys here seem to have experience with air coolers, what can you tell me in regard to the Silver Arrow extreme vs the d15?
I know the silvearrow has fans that go up to 2500 rpm and as such it's loud.
But at the same speed, how is the performance?

Thanks.
Cheers
 
#12 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdourado View Post

Since you guys here seem to have experience with air coolers, what can you tell me in regard to the Silver Arrow extreme vs the d15?
I know the silvearrow has fans that go up to 2500 rpm and as such it's loud.
But at the same speed, how is the performance?

Thanks.
Cheers
Here's something. It's from late 2015 but well demostrates the difference between said coolers and the uselessness of any AiO for very low noise operation, at the time.

The D15 is still awful value, though.
 
#13 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdourado View Post

Since you guys here seem to have experience with air coolers, what can you tell me in regard to the Silver Arrow extreme vs the d15?
I know the silvearrow has fans that go up to 2500 rpm and as such it's loud.
But at the same speed, how is the performance?

Thanks.
Cheers
Short answer; they both cool same at same noise level.

But to use Silver Arrow IB-E Extreme at above 1500rpm you need to increase case so case supplies enough cool air for the TY-143 fans can be pushing cool air into cooler.

NH-D15 is 150mm wide, meaning it reaches 75mm from center of CPU toward PCIe sockets so unless your nearest used PCIe is more than about 78mm from center CPU it will cover PCIe socket.

Silver Arrow IB-E Extreme is also quite wide, but it has offset base so is only 68mm center CPU toward PCIe sockets.

NH-D15 has fins cut out to clear tall RAM, but this does not help when the space between RAM and case is less then 140mm .. meaning 140mm fan will not fit into case.

NH-D15 has 1500rpm fans with 82.5cfm.
Silver Arrow IB-E Extreme has 2500rpm fans with 130cfm, but at 1500rpm flow about 80cfm and are as quiet or little quieter than D15 fans.

Many reviews (especially if done in cases) comparing D15 and SA IB-E Extreme show SA IB-E E only a couple degrees cooler. This is because these tests use cases that are not setup to flow the extreme airflow of TY-143 2500rpm fans and cooler is re-using it's own heated exhaust air .. an anyone with an IQ number bigger then room temp knows hotter air into cooler means higher CPU temps.

Herer is data and video of Silver Arrow SB-E, SB-E Extreme and CLC. Silver Arrow SB-E is same basic cooler as Silver Arrow IB-E. I've tested both SB-E and IB-E and found both cooled the same. The differences are IB-E has offset base with full length top and bottom fins while SB-E has centered base and 4x shorter top & 6x shorter bottom fins.

This testing show how a top tier air cooler with high performance fans making as much noise as CLC fans cooler better than CLC does.
wink.gif



Silver Arrow IB-E is a very good cooler .. even if you never use the fans above 1500rpm. I ran one for years and only changed because I have more coolers than I can count. I'm running a Le Grand Macho in that system now because I needed to use that system to test it.. While LGM is a grest cooler It's not better cooler. truthfully it won't cool as well with it's lower speed fans .. but it cools very well and I'm not going to switch it out just because I can.
wink.gif


Edit: What Smanci said. Very similar cooling and noise levels.
I agree, D15 is over-priced most places. Noctua make great products but they are usually more expensive than other brands. Reason is simply they charge more because the can and many people will pay the extra money for Noctua name. I'm just not one of those people.
wink.gif
 
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#14 ·
Actually using Rajintek Tisis ( reviews / benchmarks says thats a brother of Noctuna D15 ) with 4,9 OC i7700k having around 50-60C in 50% load was thinking about changing cooling system to AIO and my pick for now is thermaltake water 3.0 riing rgb 240 but im not sure its that good as reviews and spec's look. Actually I hear my fans I believe and wanted to achieve same performance or better if its possible thats why wanted to change cooling into AiO my pick looks really nice but maybe some1 tested it or know better solution RGB is just a feature that doesnt need to be there I want best performance with best silience I can achive. Any suggestions?
 
#16 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by QQryQ View Post

Actually using Rajintek Tisis ( reviews / benchmarks says thats a brother of Noctuna D15 ) with 4,9 OC i7700k having around 50-60C in 50% load was thinking about changing cooling system to AIO and my pick for now is thermaltake water 3.0 riing rgb 240 but im not sure its that good as reviews and spec's look. Actually I hear my fans I believe and wanted to achieve same performance or better if its possible thats why wanted to change cooling into AiO my pick looks really nice but maybe some1 tested it or know better solution RGB is just a feature that doesnt need to be there I want best performance with best silience I can achive. Any suggestions?
Tisis is not a bad cooler, but not great either. Anandtech reviews are good because they show low fan speed (7v) and full speed (12v) tests and we can select the wattage level being used .. so we can see how well a cooler works at 60w, 100w, 150w, 200w, 250w & 340w with fans running at 7v or 12v. Most of us overclocks don't go above about 250w if that much.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/9415/top-tier-cpu-air-coolers-9way-roundup-review/12
 
#17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdourado View Post

This picture is interesting:
IMG_9505.jpg


The thermalright has more heatpipes, but the Noctua has a bigger fin surface area.
Kind of makes me thinking what gives better results. More heat pipes or more area...
Pics like that are deceptive because things in image are not all at same distance, so some look bigger than other even if they are same size.

Here is a chart of many popular coolers with size, number of heatpipes, etc.


And here is one of cooling ability
 
#18 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by QQryQ View Post

Actually using Rajintek Tisis ( reviews / benchmarks says thats a brother of Noctuna D15 ) with 4,9 OC i7700k having around 50-60C in 50% load was thinking about changing cooling system to AIO and my pick for now is thermaltake water 3.0 riing rgb 240 but im not sure its that good as reviews and spec's look. Actually I hear my fans I believe and wanted to achieve same performance or better if its possible thats why wanted to change cooling into AiO my pick looks really nice but maybe some1 tested it or know better solution RGB is just a feature that doesnt need to be there I want best performance with best silience I can achive. Any suggestions?
The Tt Riing RGB is the same Asetek they use for the non-RGB. Nothing special. Essentially the same unit as the Corsair H100i GTX/V2, NZXT 52, etc.....just with worse performing fans than either of those. Would distinctly be a step down from an NH-D15 as shown in the graphs I posted prior.

As far as suggestions....first would be to look at the graphs I posted previously. Second would be to read all of the posts in this thread since they already essentially answer your question on the air vs AiO and what to expect. Third, looking at your post, I see a CPU with terrible thermal interface overclocked higher than it needs to be (in other words.....you won't see any difference in usage if you ran that CPU at 4.5 or wherever your thermal wall is, but temps and noise would likely drop substantially), your case may or may not be flowing air well and could likely be improved, etc..
 
#19 ·
thaks for answer I'll repaste it here to clarify of it but maybe you have right to low the OC and speed down the fans will have to test it for sure.

Actually using Rajintek Tisis ( reviews / benchmarks says thats a brother of Noctuna D15 ) in Phantek Enthoo Pro (2 stock fans intake + Enermax T.B Silience UCTB14P out) CPU OCed to 4,9 (1,32Vcore in BIOS if I remember correctly:p) i7700k having around 50-60C in 50% load and full speed set for all fans in BIOS was thinking about changing cooling system to AIO to improve performance and maybe reduce the noise level.
My pick for now is thermaltake water 3.0 riing rgb 240 but im not sure its that good as reviews and spec's look.
For now I can hear my fans I believe and I'm afraid its CPU Fans I wanted to achieve same performance or better if its possible (thats why wanted to change cooling into AiO). Is this even worth? Or shall I change CPU Fans?
Is there any chance to have better noise lvl's with better performance? Using AIO's or stay with AIR with good fans? Its not loud but I can hear it pretty much my friend using Fortis 3 MH1425 with Zalman Z3 case with i5 4460 and his setup comparing to mine is "OMG whata silience". Is this possible to have with my setup? Would appreciate any suggesions and help.

Heres HW Monitor and PC



 
#20 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by QQryQ View Post

thaks for answer I'll repaste it here to clarify of it but maybe you have right to low the OC and speed down the fans will have to test it for sure.

Actually using Rajintek Tisis ( reviews / benchmarks says thats a brother of Noctuna D15 ) in Phantek Enthoo Pro (2 stock fans intake + Enermax T.B Silience UCTB14P out) CPU OCed to 4,9 (1,32Vcore in BIOS if I remember correctly:p) i7700k having around 50-60C in 50% load and full speed set for all fans in BIOS was thinking about changing cooling system to AIO to improve performance and maybe reduce the noise level.
My pick for now is thermaltake water 3.0 riing rgb 240 but im not sure its that good as reviews and spec's look.
For now I can hear my fans I believe and I'm afraid its CPU Fans I wanted to achieve same performance or better if its possible (thats why wanted to change cooling into AiO). Is this even worth? Or shall I change CPU Fans?
Is there any chance to have better noise lvl's with better performance? Using AIO's or stay with AIR with good fans? Its not loud but I can hear it pretty much my friend using Fortis 3 MH1425 with Zalman Z3 case with i5 4460 and his setup comparing to mine is "OMG whata silience". Is this possible to have with my setup? Would appreciate any suggesions and help.

Heres HW Monitor and PC


Again....no you will not get better performance with lower noise from a CLC. You may be able to get similar performance but it will be louder. And also "again"....your "pick" is one of the worst of the bunch.

Your friend has a non-overclocked i5 at 3.2GHz with better TIM than what is on your CPU. What is required to keep it cool is drastically different than what you are doing. Of course it is easier to keep silent.

That said, I have had the NH-D15, Cryorig R1, be quiet DRP3 and a host of others in an Enthoo Luxe (which is the same case as the Pro in terms of cooling) on a 4770K at 4.6GHz and had no issues whatsoever keeping it cool with a very low noise profile. I also had a host of CLCs on the same build, and all were significantly louder and offered no increase in performance.
 
#22 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by QQryQ View Post

I see so best option to me is replacing fans in my air cooler into some nice fans like Noiseblocker's? what about adding top or bottom fans?
Rather than hijacking this thread, you should take the discussion to the Phanteks case owner thread, or start a new thread in the air cooling forum.
 
#23 ·
I just swapped my Corsair H105 Aio for Noctua D15S . I couldnt tolerate my pump noise anymore , i want silence .
Im so happy with the Noctua, my temps dropped by few degrees and finally my system is dead quiet.

vs


After 2hour BF1 multiplayer test :
H105

vs
Noctua D15s
 
#24 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeslaHUN View Post

I just swapped my Corsair H105 Aio for Noctua D15S . I couldnt tolerate my pump noise anymore , i want silence .
Im so happy with the Noctua, my temps dropped by few degrees and finally my system is dead quiet.

vs


After 2hour BF1 multiplayer test :
H105

vs
Noctua D15s
Nice drop on the GPU temps, as well. As much as CLC users love to say that running the rad as intake doesn't affect GPU temps......it does.
 
#25 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeslaHUN View Post

I just swapped my Corsair H105 Aio for Noctua D15S . I couldnt tolerate my pump noise anymore , i want silence .
Im so happy with the Noctua, my temps dropped by few degrees and finally my system is dead quiet.

vs


After 2hour BF1 multiplayer test :
H105

vs
Noctua D15s
Nice job!
thumb.gif


What ciarlatano said.
thumb.gif


We have been preaching for years about how good air coolers are better than CLCs, now we are seeing more and more people coming back from CLCs saying what you just posted. It sure is nice to see you 'wet heads' becoming born again 'air heads'.
biggrin.gif
 
#26 ·
I am thinking about building in an In Win 301, but I have a few questions before choosing the case.

First, I am still thinking about going either air cooler or AIO cooler for the CPU.
I would prefer to go air, but...

If I go air, the height clearance for the cooler is below 160mm.
So I was thinking about using a Scythe Mugen 5 Rev. B.
I would then use a 120mm fan on the rear as exhaust, and then two 120mm fans on the front, mounted on the inside of the case, in the closest position to the gpu possible to try and minimize choke by having the most possible distance between the fans and the front panel.

My gpu is a 1080 G1 gaming, with 3 fan windforce 3 cooler.
I would like to try and not use bottom fans so I can clean and manage front panel header, usb header cables with ease since they go in the bottom.
The gpu would intake passive air from the vent on the bottom and also receive cold air from the front 120mm fans.

Something like this:


two front 120mm intake fans, one 120mm cpu cooler fan and one 120mm exhaust fan.
GPU is aided by mesh on the bottom of the case.

Would this setup work?
Would it give good temps?
Keep in mind the 301 has a very restrictive front panel and only intakes from a closed mesh on the side. So my worries about cold air intake.

This would be my most preferable configuration to have less cables and more space to manage them.

Other option is to go AIO with an alphacool eisbear 240mm.
With this setup I would have to use two 120mm fans on the bottom as intakes, then hope to have clearence to place the radiator on the front with the two fans behind in push as exhasut and a rear 120mm fan also as exhaust.
But I am not to sure on this setup, something like this:


What are your thoughts?
How bad is the front intake on this case?
Is it doable?

Thanks for the input.
Cheers!
 
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