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i7 8700k vs i7 7700k + Capture card for streaming

6K views 22 replies 8 participants last post by  Notty 
#1 ·
So a friend of mine streams on twitch mostly at 720 30p but lets say he might switch to 720 60p or 1080 30p soon what will be better for him?i7 8700k or i7 7700k + Capture card?
And if we went with the Capture card route is there a good guide on where to start?
 
#2 ·
7700K was never a good buy in 2017. Just get 8700K or Ryzen.
Also streaming is very easy, just do the encoding on GPU which can do something like 4k60 no problem. Capture cards are nice to remove the capturing overhead but you still have to compress it unless I guess you get some pro stuff that has built in very good expensive compression, otherwise it may or may not have just another cheaper maybe even worse than GPU like HW encoder and the output from some capture cards is not great, they can be limited to 1080p etc. The GPU encoding is not as awful as it used to be and if you want to use x264 then really do get an 8 core minimum.
 
#4 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCY View Post

7700K was never a good buy in 2017. Just get 8700K or Ryzen.
Also streaming is very easy, just do the encoding on GPU which can do something like 4k60 no problem. Capture cards are nice to remove the capturing overhead but you still have to compress it unless I guess you get some pro stuff that has built in very good expensive compression, otherwise it may or may not have just another cheaper maybe even worse than GPU like HW encoder and the output from some capture cards is not great, they can be limited to 1080p etc. The GPU encoding is not as awful as it used to be and if you want to use x264 then really do get an 8 core minimum.
So best option is to sell CPU+ mobo and just a z370 + 8700k?
 
#5 ·
You don't want to buy a 4 core in 2017 and later, period. Even 7700K can be maxed out in games it just doesn't have the cores.
Didn't say what the friend has so I guess something old. And there are no update paths on Intel boards anyway. Say 6400 to 7700K? Not worth it. You would have to get 7700K 2nd hand for around $200, that's about what that's worth. Not the $350 or so Intel asks for it new.
CL is paper launched you may not find them on certain markets at all, other got a small batch and sold out in a few days. Best wait after xmas say 6 months and see what AMD comes back with as the competition continues.

For pure gaming yes the 8700K is the best you can get ATM. For streaming, depends on what setup do you prefer, best is to have 2 PCs and a high quality capture card. But for casual you can just encode on GPU and run single machine fine.
 
#6 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCY View Post

You don't want to buy a 4 core in 2017 and later, period. Even 7700K can be maxed out in games it just doesn't have the cores.
Didn't say what the friend has so I guess something old. And there are no update paths on Intel boards anyway. Say 6400 to 7700K? Not worth it. You would have to get 7700K 2nd hand for around $200, that's about what that's worth. Not the $350 or so Intel asks for it new.
CL is paper launched you may not find them on certain markets at all, other got a small batch and sold out in a few days. Best wait after xmas say 6 months and see what AMD comes back with as the competition continues.

For pure gaming yes the 8700K is the best you can get ATM. For streaming, depends on what setup do you prefer, best is to have 2 PCs and a high quality capture card. But for casual you can just encode on GPU and run single machine fine.
Very sorry for the lack of info on my side, I meant he already has a 7700k setup and he has a laptop that he can sacrifice as an encoder.
 
#7 ·
For another machine to encode, he needs a capture card. Otherwise a capture card doesn't serve a purpose. The i7-8700K will be much better for streaming.
 
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#8 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessmyantidrug View Post

For another machine to encode, he needs a capture card. Otherwise a capture card doesn't serve a purpose. The i7-8700K will be much better for streaming.
So taking into factor that he has a laptop should he just get a capture card?
 
#9 ·
Depends on the specs of the laptop.
 
#10 ·
why not to use u'r GPU to do the decoding ? the performance hit is close to 0...
BTW if u use intel CPU u can actually let the intel GPU do the decoding, they do well up to 720P 60FPS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhhgrpSfvGE

and that is with G4560...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hWd-PKTzZc

as u can see a dual core is still a bit of limitation even when using the GPU decoder to do the work but a real 4 core or cheap 6 core like I5 8400 + GPU decoder is all u really need.
(im using R3 1200 + GTX 1060 and it work perfect for me)
 
#11 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessmyantidrug View Post

Depends on the specs of the laptop.
Will check with him as soon as he answers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by idanp View Post

why not to use u'r GPU to do the decoding ? the performance hit is close to 0...
BTW if u use intel CPU u can actually let the intel GPU do the decoding, they do well up to 720P 60FPS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhhgrpSfvGE

and that is with G4560...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hWd-PKTzZc

as u can see a dual core is still a bit of limitation even when using the GPU decoder to do the work but a real 4 core or cheap 6 core like I5 8400 + GPU decoder is all u really need.
(im using R3 1200 + GTX 1060 and it work perfect for me)
He said he was dropping frames although he was using the NVENC which is weird.

But thanks for the info
 
#12 ·
+1 for using the NVEC encoder. I don't understand all this hype around higher core CPU's using software encoding. I don't care how many cores your cpu has, the frametimes cannot be good while gaming and doing simultaneous x264 encoding. Sure the NVEC has some effect on frametimes, but nothing like software encoding. The only thing that can beat this is using a separate machine with a capture card. That is the only way to ensure maximum performance on the gaming rig while streaming. My issue is that its crazy expensive to get capture cards that have displayport input, and with 1440p 144Hz becoming mainstream, you'd think people who stream and would do capture card recording could afford 1440p 144hz monitors. The market needs a ~$150 hdmi2.0/dp1.2/dp1.4 capture card that can record at 1440p/60 and 4k/60.
 
#13 ·
Quote:
+1 for using the NVEC encoder. I don't understand all this hype around higher core CPU's using software encoding. I don't care how many cores your cpu has, the frametimes cannot be good while gaming and doing simultaneous x264 encoding.
With a proper setup the hit is not that big and CPU encoders can achieve way better quality per bit. The advantages and disadvantages are big enough to use both on a daily basis

The x264 encoding is often not even the problem, back when i did lots of tests it was the overhead involved with capturing the game that sunk FPS. If you have the cores idle then it doesn't really matter if they're encoding something or not.
 
#14 ·
If there's idle cores, then the processor isn't being used as efficiently as possible. Sometimes you need to assign core affinity to whichever streaming application you're using to ensure no dropped frames and a smooth experience on both ends. The more cores/threads you have for this, the less your CPU will be taxed. As far as stream quality, every situation will be different. Your upload speed will largely dictate your stream quality. You won't be streaming 1080p60 if your upload speed is only 2 Mbps. There is a noticeable difference between 1080p60 and 720p30, but your objective should be highest quality possible with zero dropped frames. You have to tinker with the settings to figure out what works best for you.
 
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#15 ·
There's an overwatch streamer named Kephrii who i think has the best possible streaming setup right now. His gaming rig is a 7700k+1080ti and a 1080p 240hz monitor. His stream rig uses an hd60 pro capture card to capture 1080p60 video. Then the stream rig encodes the video via software encoding with a high core count 6950x.

Not considering the recently released CPU's, this is arguably the best streaming setup possible. Using current CPUs, you could swap the 7700k for an 8700k for the gaming rig and the 6950X for a 7980XE in the streaming rig. But you're probably getting beyond whats really noticeable as far as software encoding goes and how well you can make your stream look at the desired bitrate (6Mbps for twitch)
 
#16 ·
Spending that much money on the CPU in a dedicated streaming PC is throwing money away unless you plan on using that system for more than just streaming. The purpose of having a dedicated streaming PC is to remove the encoding responsibility from your gaming PC. The streaming PC will be doing pretty much nothing but encoding video. An i3-8100 would be more than adequate for this.
 
#20 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

Depends on the settings
tongue.gif
I know, but I'm never recommending someone spend more on a dedicated streaming PC than on their gaming PC. The only reason to spend that much on a streaming PC's CPU is if you plan on using it for more than just streaming, like YouTube content creation. If content creation isn't your primary source of income, it's a bit silly to spend that kind of money on a two-PC setup. For YouTubers, it makes sense because they're saving time on rendering and eventually the amount of time saved should pay for the setup.
 
#21 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by IMI4tth3w View Post

There's an overwatch streamer named Kephrii who i think has the best possible streaming setup right now. His gaming rig is a 7700k+1080ti and a 1080p 240hz monitor. His stream rig uses an hd60 pro capture card to capture 1080p60 video. Then the stream rig encodes the video via software encoding with a high core count 6950x.

Not considering the recently released CPU's, this is arguably the best streaming setup possible. Using current CPUs, you could swap the 7700k for an 8700k for the gaming rig and the 6950X for a 7980XE in the streaming rig. But you're probably getting beyond whats really noticeable as far as software encoding goes and how well you can make your stream look at the desired bitrate (6Mbps for twitch)
some people like to go "shopping" with their Lamborghini u know.
that is about the same level of wast as that PC and stream PC for overwatch...
 
#22 ·
If that PC is only used for streaming, I would agree that it is a waste. But if they're also using that PC for rendering videos and/or other content creation purposes, it's not a bad purchase at all. It only looks bad in retrospect because of Skylake-X and Threadripper, but specialized PC's like that are much harder to delay.
 
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