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[Anandtech]Microsoft Introduces Surface Book 2: 7th/8th Generation i5/i7 CPUS, NVIDIA Discrete Graphics - Page 3

post #21 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Driftingnfsc3 View Post

i do agree with the excessive cost, and sure, outside of university/college students, i don't see much need for having "decent" graphics power on the go. i mean, i've seen people play overwatch on their surface books at university >.>

just want to point out:
-while many OEM's do offer pen support, most of them lack the computational performance for the devices to be used for anything but taking notes, or working on simple documents.
-i know im kind of biased towards having pen support AND computational power...its because of my situation as an engineering student <.< (i currently have to carry two devices, surface 3 and msi gs60 ghost pro, and taking notes on the surface 3 can be a frustrating experience...barely runs firefox or chrome :U)
-i push my graphics card on my gs60 almost everyday :3 (be it gaming, cadding, or some CG)
-the Dell has a Y series processor, so its a headache to people working with large and/or complicated excel files let alone cading (just an example).
-I highly doubt AMD's GPU portion of their APU's will provide the same performance as a gtx1060, for now.

i will also say this...most of the cost of the surface book is probably purely related to the shell of it and the research that went behind it. its over engineered to say the least. (tight tolerances, expensive materials, ridiculous number of manufacturing processes and number of components)

The result is, it definitely costs a ton of money, so much so that the value for the $ makes me want to puke. But it is still probably going to be one of the best devices in its class, as a pen enabled device, taking all its features and building into consideration (except value :X)

Good points. This is also very early in the SB2 release. When the Surfaces came out (Pro/Book/etc) it took a little while but other vendors started putting out clones that in alot of ways matched or beat the surface, usually in terms of raw specs, but sometimes with better hinges, keyboards or other design choices. They also tended to be more reasonably priced alternatives. Id imagine we will see in a couple months a couple options that are competitive with the SB2, maybe with some trade offs.

I get what you are saying about the pen, and I am sure its important to some people, but as you mentioned its a niche crowd. I found myself rarely using the Surface Pro 3 pen. Mostly to occasionally sign a PDF. I also think your a good example of the "average" power user. You know that when it comes to real work (or play) you use a laptop meant for that sort of thing.

You mention the Y processor being a hindrance. The U processors are really just more modern versions of that. They will not maintain boost speeds for sustained periods of time. A review I read I think mentioned in consistent work loads throttling keeping the 8550U at about 2.2Ghz and that was on a 13" Dell Inspiron 7000 with what I assume to be adequate cooling. Sure the 8th gen version is double the cores and threads and that would go a long way to helping, but Id imagine those serious about Crunching data are going to do like you and get a more powerful laptop.

By the way, +Rep for having a decent, well thought conversation on the topic instead of the typical internet alternative wink.gif
post #22 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by twitchyzero View Post

anyone else find it weird a Coffee-Lake platform has DDR3 still?! wonder if this means the SSD is SATA and not PCIe

would seem silly to not be able to cram 64GB of memory in a flagship laptop

They use that RAM because it uses less energy than DDR4. Idk, but id give a wild guess it might give them an extra 30-60 mins batter life in a charge. Also, id imagine that 64GB versions wouldnt sell well enough to warrant the cost. I could be mistaken, but I would imagine the RAM is soldered to the board, meaning they have to make them like that and then sit on the shelf waiting to sell, instead of making the laptop and throwing the required RAM in when they get an order.

Especially right now RAM is expensive. 64GB would be super expensive. Then to not even be able to sell it, or having to sell it down the road after prices deflate and taking a loss on it...ouch.

Its also more RAM than the majority of people could even dream about using. Ive got 16GB at home. Running a VM, a game, a bunch of tabs in Chrome, a movie playing and transcoding a video at the same time and having Samsung Magician earmark some of my RAM for their caching/speed boosting thing (I know I know, its cheese but I like big numbers)...and I am "lucky" if I can hit 12-14GB usage. I doubt the majority of people are running VM's on their Surface. Gaming probably isnt a high priority either.

As for the Drives, Id be shocked if they arent all PCIe/NVMe drives. The RAM and SSD have no relation to each other. Id imagine using a sata drive in a device at that price/prestige would be make it DOA.
post #23 of 32
^ I had no idea Kaby/Coffee Lake had platforms that still used DDR3 so I assumed it was an old chipset, hence no NVMe support

when you have a 4c/8t laptop, gaining 30 minutes of battery life probably isn't a priority

i didn't mean 64G as an option as yes that's quite pricey...but 32 as option self-servicable to 64. Soldered 16GB in this would be a dealbreaker as I would want a $2000+ laptop to last longer than 2-3 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Driftingnfsc3 View Post


just want to point out:
-while many OEM's do offer pen support, most of them lack the computational performance for the devices to be used for anything but taking notes, or working on simple documents.
-i know im kind of biased towards having pen support AND computational power...its because of my situation as an engineering student <.< (i currently have to carry two devices, surface 3 and msi gs60 ghost pro, and taking notes on the surface 3 can be a frustrating experience...barely runs firefox or chrome :U)

my dell's pen support is a Wacom tech so it works well enough for me

the system's Skylake-Y hyperthreading hasn't seen massive Excel docs, but can do simple editing decently

(specs in sig rig)
Edited by twitchyzero - 10/19/17 at 9:40am
     
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post #24 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by twitchyzero View Post

^ I had no idea Kaby/Coffee Lake had platforms that still used DDR3 so I assumed it was an old chipset, hence no NVMe support

when you have a 4c/8t laptop, gaining 30 minutes of battery life probably isn't a priority

RAM support is built into the CPU. Intel Ark states support for both DDR4 and LPDDR3. Past versions had NVMe, id be amazed if they back track on that.

Id disagree with the 30 mins gain not being meaningful. At a 10 hour total battery life 30 mins is 5% of that. With this type of device battery life is often scrutinized as much if not more than performance and features as people intend to travel all day with these and not need to be tethered to an outlet. Check out any hands on review of this or similar devices and I bet the article has a battery life section in which they not only test the battery life, but compare it to alternative devices and people will make choices based on the results.

That's also assuming 30 mins gain using LPDDR3. I could have wildly underestimated the gains or on the flip side drastically over estimated the benefit. I am afterall just guessing how much battery life they could gain using LPDDR3.
post #25 of 32
I think that's an old-fashioned way to think about these devices as modern USB-C battery packs with enough voltage can extend life by many folds if you are really without an outlet.




wow, still no TB3. That and soldered 16GB DDR3 when confirmed means this system is officially out-dated before release. Absolutely no excuse for these shortcomings when the product is geared towards professionals.
Edited by twitchyzero - 10/19/17 at 11:37am
     
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post #26 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zer0CoolX View Post

/snip

By the way, +Rep for having a decent, well thought conversation on the topic instead of the typical internet alternative wink.gif

i do enjoy a nice conversation that allows me to open up my world a little bit. not many people on the internet speak out with an open mind, willing to learn from what others have to say. I mean, hey, when you mentioned the lenovo yoga in your comment, i actually googled its various models. if i didn't i probably wouldn't have known that the Lenovo Yoga 720 with a non-U 7th gen quad core + gtx1050 existed! (also supports Wacom AES) and i would've put in my last comment that neither the dell nor the lenovo came close in-terms of performance to the surface book. (clearly false tongue.gif) so thank you too for sharing some knowledge unknown to me c:

also, i thought y series processors were ultra low tdp skus of the u series:o not older versions. on another note, i figured the 8th gen u series processors were going to be throttled heavily, relative to the dual core 7th gen processors, to meet tdp requirements. my reasoning behind this was that the actual processor architecture and manufacturing has only had an incremental change (optimization) from 7th gen. that is probably going to be another point against the surface book 2, by placing a disproportionately powerful graphics card with a cpu that can't keep up. unless they configured the processor in the surface book 2 with its 25W tdp setting, i dont see it pairing well with a gtx 1060 tongue.gif and then there is intel's new naming methodology where the 10w, 15w and 25w parts all have the same name, and its upto the vendor to select what tdp specification is used. kind of leaves the consumer in the dark if the oem doesn't list the tdp spec of the processor.

i haven't read any reviews of the Dell Inspiron 3000 yet but i would assume its running at a tdp of 15W, and that is what is holding the clocks back.
    
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post #27 of 32

Still wondering if I can swap the base of my OG Surface Book with this one. I know it works with the GTX 965M "Performance" Base. 

post #28 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlademaster01 View Post

Still wondering if I can swap the base of my OG Surface Book with this one. I know it works with the GTX 965M "Performance" Base. 
Guess it depends on which base you are talking about, the bigger one or the smaller. Probably won't fit on the bigger since the little metal tabs on the ends that fit into the tablet are spaced differently and they look a different size. The smaller base looks the same, but since they never sell the bases individually, I bet they don't work. How exactly would you even get a new base without buying the entire thing? confused.gif
post #29 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by starliner View Post


Guess it depends on which base you are talking about, the bigger one or the smaller. Probably won't fit on the bigger since the little metal tabs on the ends that fit into the tablet are spaced differently and they look a different size. The smaller base looks the same, but since they never sell the bases individually, I bet they don't work. How exactly would you even get a new base without buying the entire thing? confused.gif

 

Yeah, I was talking about the 13.5" model. Some people do sell keyboard bases only on eBay. It would be nice if MS sold them separately as GPU upgrades or battery replacements/packs.

post #30 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlademaster01 View Post

Yeah, I was talking about the 13.5" model. Some people do sell keyboard bases only on eBay. It would be nice if MS sold them separately as GPU upgrades or battery replacements/packs.

I want to say I read they changed the hinge, so it wouldnt surprise me if the mechanism that actually connects the base and top is slightly different. Its possible they went out of their way to ensure they are not cross compatible either via hardware or software limitations. It will be interesting to see though as I am sure someone will try it out.
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