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Worth delidding i5 6600K?

6K views 27 replies 16 participants last post by  enigma7820 
#1 ·
I've got an i5 6600K running at 4.3GHz @ 1.312v with a Noctua NH D15 (fans removed) and two fans spinning at low RPM in my case.
Temps easily hit 70c under load and can go a bit higher... 75c or 80c.
I'm wondering if it's worth delidding (with a delidding tool) and mounting the cooler directly to the chip? Is that beneficial in my case?
 
#4 ·
You removed the fans and have low RPM case fans and now you are saying you have high temps
Not to sound rude but why and it should be obvious why you have problems so put the fans back on and get some better case fans
 
#6 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTOOSHORT View Post

Sound s like a crappy clocker. I would just leave it alone. The voltage is up there already, so seems like the best you can do is 4.5Ghz with a delid.
It is a crappy chip -- though it did slightly better when it had more fans and was kept cooler. I was thinking not so much of increasing clock speed but reducing temperatures.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lonsor View Post

just put the fans back on the cpu cooler, like normal people.
My build is meant to be very quiet. So less fans is good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shilka View Post

You removed the fans and have low RPM case fans and now you are saying you have high temps
Not to sound rude but why and it should be obvious why you have problems so put the fans back on and get some better case fans
I'm not saying I don't understand why I have high temps -- my build is supposed to be very quiet, so naturally I don't want to add the fans back on to the cooler. The whole point was to reduce noise, and it's not that I have crappy fans (they're AP181's) I just run them on low (700 RPM) so it's nice and quiet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Depauville Kid View Post

Should you delid? No you should not. Delidding is for enthusiasts, Extreme overclocked, record breakers, and such. Also for people who can afford the risk.

Unfortunately, because Linus and Gamers Nexus both did delidding videos, now average users think they should do it too.
I would say I'm an enthusiast -- though not on that level. Certainly not trying to break any records but I do want a cooler CPU if possible (without sacrificing noise.)

>>>>>

I think my question may have been misunderstood. I'm simply asking if I will see a temp drop with a delidding in my situation.
It's obviously not worth it if I do it but the temperature doesn't change. I'm not looking to overclock any higher.
 
#7 ·
Would you see a decrease in temps? Maybe.

Right now, it seems you have an issue with removing the heat from the cpu cooler itself. If you were to add fans to the cooler itself, the temps would go down.

Now imagine you have done the delid and are getting better heat transfer to the cpu cooler. More heat on the cooler when it is already having trouble dissipating the heat it's currently dealing with.

So, you'd probably see lower temps, but you need to find a better configuration to actually get the heat away from the tower. I know you want a silent build. You can still use fans on the tower with little increase in noise if they are good fans. Noise dampening material on the case would also help a lot. Blocking unused vents would also help. There are a lot of steps you can take to silence a build with out simply neglecting your cooling, which is what you are currently doing.
 
#8 ·
How long have you stress tested that cpu?

Wouldn't it heat soak unless you have a case decked out with fans?
Which I assume you wouldn't because that would defeat the purpose of not having the fans on the cooler..????
 
#9 ·
Probably not going to see a temp drop. What's keeping temps up is your actual setup not Intel's pigeon poop.

You can't have it all, there are trade-offs and one of them is noise vs temps. Maybe a better Idea would be to get a i7-6700 (not K in your case)... or a silent case (or noise dampening material).
 
#10 ·
The case does actually have noise dampening material already and it exhausts air out the top.

It's not that my setup is excessively loud or anything. It's very quiet, even when it had the CPU fans in there. But it definitely is quieter now and I'm happy with it -- just thought of delidding as a possible way to drop temps down a little more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Depauville Kid View Post

Would you see a decrease in temps? Maybe.

Right now, it seems you have an issue with removing the heat from the cpu cooler itself. If you were to add fans to the cooler itself, the temps would go down.

Now imagine you have done the delid and are getting better heat transfer to the cpu cooler. More heat on the cooler when it is already having trouble dissipating the heat it's currently dealing with.

So, you'd probably see lower temps, but you need to find a better configuration to actually get the heat away from the tower. I know you want a silent build. You can still use fans on the tower with little increase in noise if they are good fans. Noise dampening material on the case would also help a lot. Blocking unused vents would also help. There are a lot of steps you can take to silence a build with out simply neglecting your cooling, which is what you are currently doing.
I see... so yeah it may not be worth it. It's true the noise is minimal (the Noctua fans were nice) however I did want to minimize as much noise as possible. I can ramp up the case fans when gaming to drop temps down and that does work... however my average session is probably 70c right now so I don't think it's necessary.

I wouldn't say I'm neglecting it, I'm simply favouring silence over lower temps. If I could get the GPU to run with quieter fans too that'd be a dream
tongue.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by aDyerSituation View Post

How long have you stress tested that cpu?

Wouldn't it heat soak unless you have a case decked out with fans?
Which I assume you wouldn't because that would defeat the purpose of not having the fans on the cooler..????
I did like an hour or so a few times back when it had fans on the CPU cooler but haven't since. The most intensive thing I do is gaming. Haven't had any crashes for a long time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lonsor View Post

Probably not going to see a temp drop. What's keeping temps up is your actual setup not Intel's pigeon poop.

You can't have it all, there are trade-offs and one of them is noise vs temps. Maybe a better Idea would be to get a i7-6700 (not K in your case)... or a silent case (or noise dampening material).
I wasn't thinking of the thermal paste but directly mounting the CPU cooler to the chip itself for better heat transfer.

>>>>

Also I'm wondering if the weight of the Noctua NH D15 pressing against the CPU chip itself could damage it? (I'm not talking about improper handling or installing, but just clamping down over it as it does... others may be using watercooling...
 
#11 ·
All of this is moot pending this question?

Are you okay with possibly ruining your CPU? If you damage it, is buying a new processor okay with you?

If you have never delidded a processor, damaging it is quite likely. If you don't have disposable income to throw at a new processor, then the answer is definitely a no.
 
#12 ·
Direct-mounting your heatsink to the die is a nono.

Delidding to replaced the stock TIM with liquid metal? Yes that will decrease your temps and is not nearly as scary and hard of a thing to do as many in this thread are making it out to be.

That being said, there is a non-zero chance of borking your CPU. Don't attempt delidding unless you can afford to replace it should something go wrong.

I recently delidded my i5-4670k, and was able to push from 4.4ghz stable (temp limited) to 4.7ghz stable (safe voltage limited) while lowering my load temps. I also use a NH-D15 but I have both fans on.
 
#13 ·
I would add some quiet fans to the D15. Or put the fans back on and use something to keep the RPM as low as you can. The stock fans are incredible with Noctua. You could probably find software that works with your board from ASRock that lets you control your fan speeds.
At this point, your CPU tower can only radiate so much heat. If you want fanless, you'll have to get a massive passive tower.
 
#14 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Depauville Kid View Post

All of this is moot pending this question?

Are you okay with possibly ruining your CPU? If you damage it, is buying a new processor okay with you?

If you have never delidded a processor, damaging it is quite likely. If you don't have disposable income to throw at a new processor, then the answer is definitely a no.
Ideally that won't happen but yes I'm aware I may have to replace it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeDeeEff View Post

Direct-mounting your heatsink to the die is a nono.

Delidding to replaced the stock TIM with liquid metal? Yes that will decrease your temps and is not nearly as scary and hard of a thing to do as many in this thread are making it out to be.

That being said, there is a non-zero chance of borking your CPU. Don't attempt delidding unless you can afford to replace it should something go wrong.

I recently delidded my i5-4670k, and was able to push from 4.4ghz stable (temp limited) to 4.7ghz stable (safe voltage limited) while lowering my load temps. I also use a NH-D15 but I have both fans on.
Could you elaborate on why mounting the heatsink directly to the die is a bad move?

Yeah I'm aware something may go wrong but just trying to figure out (as best I can) if there could be potential gains.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcEsSalvation View Post

I would add some quiet fans to the D15. Or put the fans back on and use something to keep the RPM as low as you can. The stock fans are incredible with Noctua. You could probably find software that works with your board from ASRock that lets you control your fan speeds.
At this point, your CPU tower can only radiate so much heat. If you want fanless, you'll have to get a massive passive tower.
Oh they are very quiet and I can control them via software. I had them running at 400~ RPM. Isn't the Noctua NH D15 massive already? Is there bigger???
 
#15 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

Could you elaborate on why mounting the heatsink directly to the die is a bad move?
Near zero gain for direct die mount, and dangers of damage are magnified 50 fold. Every heatsink and motherboard is designed with the assumption of the heatspreader being present, it spreads out not only the heat but the pressure from everything mounted on top of it evenly across the pcb of the chip, and thus evenly across the cpu pins in them otherboard.

It CAN be done, but you'd need to be exceedingly careful and precise in machining your spacers to not over pressure the cpu die .
 
#16 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcEsSalvation View Post

I would add some quiet fans to the D15. Or put the fans back on and use something to keep the RPM as low as you can. The stock fans are incredible with Noctua. You could probably find software that works with your board from ASRock that lets you control your fan speeds.
At this point, your CPU tower can only radiate so much heat. If you want fanless, you'll have to get a massive passive tower.
Oh they are very quiet and I can control them via software. I had them running at 400~ RPM. Isn't the Noctua NH D15 massive already? Is there bigger???
The reason why cooler like the D15 can dissipate heat is because of the air flow the fans provide. They remove heat from the tower allowing it to gather more heat from the chip. Without that airflow, the tower just sits and radiates only a small amount of heat, meanwhile the chip keeps consuming more energy. You need to move the heat from the tower - it's not designed to naturally radiate.
Tower coolers that are passive are either large and designed to deal with much lower energy consuming chips, or absolutely massive and spiral across the entire case and are designed to allow passive heat dissipation
 
#17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeDeeEff View Post

Near zero gain for direct die mount, and dangers of damage are magnified 50 fold. Every heatsink and motherboard is designed with the assumption of the heatspreader being present, it spreads out not only the heat but the pressure from everything mounted on top of it evenly across the pcb of the chip, and thus evenly across the cpu pins in them otherboard.

It CAN be done, but you'd need to be exceedingly careful and precise in machining your spacers to not over pressure the cpu die .
I see I see. I think if I'm not mounting directly then there isn't much point... and I don't think I can be that precise when it comes to not apply pressure to the CPU with the cooler.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcEsSalvation View Post

The reason why cooler like the D15 can dissipate heat is because of the air flow the fans provide. They remove heat from the tower allowing it to gather more heat from the chip. Without that airflow, the tower just sits and radiates only a small amount of heat, meanwhile the chip keeps consuming more energy. You need to move the heat from the tower - it's not designed to naturally radiate.
Tower coolers that are passive are either large and designed to deal with much lower energy consuming chips, or absolutely massive and spiral across the entire case and are designed to allow passive heat dissipation
I see I see. I do have an AP181 directly under the CPU cooler blowing air on it so there is some heat transfer but obviously less than when there's one or two of the fans on the cooler itself.
 
#18 ·
Seems like you should have bought a cooler designed to be run passively.

Thermalright Le Grande Macho or HR-22 are more suited for passive cooling
 
#19 ·
You would still see a temp drop with a delid
By how much, no one can say
Its rare to find someone running passive, and each delid brings it's own variation of temp drops
Still it would probably be worth it
Having a delid would also help a lot running silent

However you need a liquid metal paste like conductonaut
Don't be cheap on that front

Btw instead of trying to run without a IHS, which is way too complicated for negligible gains compared to a delid, you could lapp the IHS

This was my 7600k's IHS


The most problematic spot is obviously right in the middle, where the DIE is as well

Lapping in such a case could shave off like 5 degrees further on top of a delid
 
#20 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

Seems like you should have bought a cooler designed to be run passively.

Thermalright Le Grande Macho or HR-22 are more suited for passive cooling
Well I didn't initially plan on it since this was my first build and wasn't sure how temperatures would be. I can see that those two you recommended are one part whereas the Noctua has room for a fan in-between.
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter2k View Post

You would still see a temp drop with a delid
By how much, no one can say
Its rare to find someone running passive, and each delid brings it's own variation of temp drops
Still it would probably be worth it
Having a delid would also help a lot running silent

However you need a liquid metal paste like conductonaut
Don't be cheap on that front

Btw instead of trying to run without a IHS, which is way too complicated for negligible gains compared to a delid, you could lapp the IHS

This was my 7600k's IHS


The most problematic spot is obviously right in the middle, where the DIE is as well

Lapping in such a case could shave off like 5 degrees further on top of a delid
I see I see. Yeah I would get good liquid metal paste... is it also good just for between the IHS and the cooler itself? Instead of regular paste...?

What do you mean by lap?
 
#21 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

I see I see. Yeah I would get good liquid metal paste... is it also good just for between the IHS and the cooler itself? Instead of regular paste...?

What do you mean by lap?
You CAN use a liquid metal paste between the IHS and cooler, but there can be problems with that as well. The biggest problem is that liquid metal paste doesn't react well with aluminum, so you need to make sure that NONE of it comes in contact with any aluminum at all. Considering that most air coolers are aluminum with a copper plate on the bottom this can become problematic.

Personally, I would just get a very high quality non-metallic paste to use between the IHS and cooler, but that's just me. If you're certain you can get it right then nothing is better than liquid metal for transferring heat. And you'll certainly have enough left over after a delid. Choice is yours, but if you do it make sure you're not getting any liquid metal on anything other than the IHS and copper on the heatsink.

Lapping is basically sanding the IHS and cooler to remove any imperfections in the surface. Milling grooves on the heatsink and slight curvature on the IHS are normal. Lapping is the process of sanding both down until you get as close to a perfect surface as you can get. Totally flat with no scratches or marks on either surface. Done right it can drop temps by another 5-10C, but it's VERY time consuming to do right. You've got to have the patience to sand away on metal surfaces for hours, and be careful enough to be very precise when you do it.

If you're interested then read this. It's a basic guide but will give you a good idea of what is involved. To do it right you'll need to lap both the IHS and the surface of the cooler that contacts the IHS.

http://www.overclockersclub.com/guides/lapping/
 
#22 ·
Well i wouldn't say hours more like 2 hours really

It's actually a bit easier (at least for me) with the IHS off
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

Well I didn't initially plan on it since this was my first build and wasn't sure how temperatures would be. I can see that those two you recommended are one part whereas the Noctua has room for a fan in-between.
I see I see. Yeah I would get good liquid metal paste... is it also good just for between the IHS and the cooler itself? Instead of regular paste...?

What do you mean by lap?
My IHS was like any others
Then I started to sand away the top layer

Putting sand paper on a glas surface, for me our glas dining table, and sanding away at the IHS

You can see the copper shine through in spots, means it was not even, was actually concave at the middle (worst kind really)

And once I had a plane surface from the IHS I started to go with finer and finer sandpaper
Up until P2500

Temps dropped another 5 degrees for me afterwards

From my shot up there to


On TIM

under IHS any liquid metal paste that is cheapest/easiest to get for you

There are 4 on the market

Coollabority Ultra and pro

Conductonaut

Phobya LM

Any of those will do fine, small edge to conductonaut

on IHS any high end normal TIM
Like Aironaut, Hydronaut,Noctua NH-1

It's just easier to handle and difference is really minor
And the more perfect the IHS and cooler mating then even less

Once you actually try to use the liquid metal ones you'll understand
And cleaning them up is not as easy as wiping them away

Btw
It is recommended to paint some of the LM on the underside of the IHS as well to ensure good contact
When you put a small drop on the underside and try to paint it on you wpuod see that it needs to be convinced a little to actually stick to the surface

And do paint over the golden contacts under the IHS with clear nail polish
 
#23 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

I see I see. I think if I'm not mounting directly then there isn't much point... and I don't think I can be that precise when it comes to not apply pressure to the CPU with the cooler.
There is a point, intel puts REALLY REALLY bad thermal paste between the die and IHS. Replacing it with liquid metal and putting it back on gives many a 20C temp drop under load.
 
#24 ·
In this case I think the limiting factor is the CPU cooler. I'm actually impressed the temps are that low with no fans and an overclock
smile.gif
 
#25 ·
First, make your cooler great again, second, if the chip is a poor overclocker, don't bother...the higher the vcore, the more cooling you need.
 
#26 ·
The NH-D15 is still great. It's a below average performer without fans. That is the problem, not the cooler. Adding fans to the towers should drop temperatures considerably.
 
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