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Sizing Radiator and loop for 1x1080 GPU and 1xCPU?

1K views 21 replies 9 participants last post by  Solarity 
#1 ·
I have done a bit of reading and wow there is a lot of information and different opinions on water cooling. So much so, it is influencing what case I am going to buy. While my current system 4.4Ghz OC is stable and cool with my 120mm AIO, I don't feel comfortable putting any more voltage into it. I am planning on getting a new graphics card and I will update my CPU sooner or later. I would like to get a setup that would be able to scale for future use. I do understand/know that GPU blocks can cost a lot, unless you get one as OEM.

Composition: All copper/brass (no AL)

Pump:
1) D5 <= Most likely getting this
2) DCC <= Hear it is a good pump, though D5 is more capable, granted this is cheaper.

Radiator:
The cases I am looking all have the capability of holding a 280mm rad on top and a 360 in front. A few have 360 capability on top. Though I am curious how much cooling do I really need for a GPU and CPU?

I know other than length, the thickness of the radiator can be limited by your case. Basically more surface area the better it will exchange the heat to the air. On the other hand, if the fan density is to thick it can impede air flow and require more dusting.

I thought EKWB had a cool configurator, though realized it suggested dual 360s for one case and a single 280 for another case.

Should I get the new case, and use a 360MM in the front, until I get new GPU, then get a 280mm. I still need to figure out what thickness and if I really need an additional Rad.

Reservoir:
Either built on or what ever that fits.

Hoses:
I am pretty handy and have a heat gun, so I am thinking about going rigid hoses. I even have a plumbing pressure tester.

Reason for water cooling: get most out of a GPU, scale with newer CPU, and like to tinker.

Note: I do live a few miles from FrozenCPU, I know they have burnt some people on this forum, though as I will pickup anything I buy, I don't feel as hesitant.
 
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#2 ·
I believe that most people agree that a 120mm rad for each component plus an additional 120mm rad is sufficient for all but the most extreme overclockers (in your case 360mm). With that being said, get as much rad space as you can. This will allow you to slow your fan way down and run a nearly silent system while maintaining high overclocks.

I would highly suggest that you stay away from 140mm rads and stick with 120mm. The 120mm fan quality and selection make the cooling differences small and you shouldn't run into case compatibility issues when you change in the future.

Good luck!
 
#3 ·
The d5 is quieter than the DDC, the DDC has more head pressure but a lower unrestricted flowrate compared to the d5 which has a lower head pressure but a higher unrestricted flowrate.

So when you have a few blocks and rads in your loop the d5 is a great pump, after that you really want to either step up to a noiser DDC or serial pumps or dual loops.

In general a thick 280 with good fans will out perform a 360 with good fans if they have similar rpm ranges,

Just max out the rad space you can in the case and get good fans, unless you're cool with run fans in the 1800-2000 range while gaming with a single 280mm or 360mm rad. If you aren't adding the GPU right away putting off getting the second rad is an option just remember that you'll have to redo the tubing to add those.

Honestly you really should look up rad reviews on xtremerigs.com they have a ton and they give a general wattage of heat they can dissipate at a set rpm.

Oh and to get the wattage of your components go to am decent PSU calculator and input just your CPU and video card and the overclock you are running or plan on running but ball park it kind of high.
 
#5 ·
With an OCed titan XP and OCed broadwell E 8 core cpu, max delta air to water gaming is 6-7C, that is with 2x280 rads, fans at constant 950rpms, with good (but fairly restrictive) dust filters in place. My system though is dead quiet and stays clean in a Fractal design R5 case with gpu temps 45C and cpu temps 50's gaming. (delta air to water would be less with no dust filters and open bench)

I will always have ~2x280 rads per cpu/gpu since I wont use fan speeds over 950 rpms, and I like good (restrictive) air filters, and pushing air into a case always add restriction versus open bench. 2x280 will fit in many modern cases.

But like somebadlemonade said, you can go to xtremerigs and see what your various delta air to water would be with various rads/fans (though you need to factor in about 30% performance loss for filters and case restriction unless your running open bench as well).
 
#6 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harobi View Post

I believe that most people agree that a 120mm rad for each component plus an additional 120mm rad is sufficient for all but the most extreme overclockers (in your case 360mm). With that being said, get as much rad space as you can. This will allow you to slow your fan way down and run a nearly silent system while maintaining high overclocks.

I would highly suggest that you stay away from 140mm rads and stick with 120mm. The 120mm fan quality and selection make the cooling differences small and you shouldn't run into case compatibility issues when you change in the future.

Good luck!
I guess there are more 120mm fans than 140mm, good thing to keep in mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebadlemonade View Post

The d5 is quieter than the DDC, the DDC has more head pressure but a lower unrestricted flowrate compared to the d5 which has a lower head pressure but a higher unrestricted flowrate.

So when you have a few blocks and rads in your loop the d5 is a great pump, after that you really want to either step up to a noiser DDC or serial pumps or dual loops.

In general a thick 280 with good fans will out perform a 360 with good fans if they have similar rpm ranges,

Just max out the rad space you can in the case and get good fans, unless you're cool with run fans in the 1800-2000 range while gaming with a single 280mm or 360mm rad. If you aren't adding the GPU right away putting off getting the second rad is an option just remember that you'll have to redo the tubing to add those.

Honestly you really should look up rad reviews on xtremerigs.com they have a ton and they give a general wattage of heat they can dissipate at a set rpm.
Thanks for the suggestion on rad reviews. Also you stating that the 280mm would only out perform a 360, if it is thicker?

I really don't notice my PC's noise, since I switched my last fan from a 4pin molex and attached it to a MB fan header. I also only use my system for gaming, though when I game I am wearing my headphones. So sound isn't all that important to me. My computer also has it's own room, so I don't have to sleep in the same room. I guess I know see and understand why people want quieter systems that they control the lighting on, I might have wanted it to, if systems were as loud and light filled, when I was in college.

Based off my requirements, do I really need a D5, is there any reliability differences between the D5 and the DCC?

Besides the coolness/tinker of water cooling. I hear custom loops are more reliable pump wise, give better cooling, but I think the biggest impact is better GPU performance. Based off bench marks I have read my current OC should be able to hold its own against stock 7700 in the games I play, if both were equipped with a GTX 1060, 1070. The 7700 would only gain a slight advantage with the 1080 GTX. My current 120MM AIO seems to be doing sufficient cooling for my current CPU, though it is 4 years old. I don't plan to over clock any further for now as it took a much larger jump in voltage to get it to 4.5, so I though 4.4Ghz was a conservative clock speed.
 
#7 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by outofmyheadyo View Post

I would go for 560 I was runnin a 560 ( alphacool monsta ) with 1080ti and ryzen with fans @ 500rpm and D5 vario pump at lowest speed temps were good, but if I pumped the fans to 1500rpm ( max ) gpu temps never went above 40c in 22c ambient
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I would need to build a case around such a monster, 4x140 0_o are there many cases that accept something that big? I guess it make sense to buy one large rad than have a couple small ones. I thought it would be better to have a rad between the GPU and CPU, but common opinion is showing me that it is 6 or 1 half dozen. What case do you have to host that monster, I went to check your profile, but saw nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by opt33 View Post

With an OCed titan XP and OCed broadwell E 8 core cpu, max delta air to water gaming is 6-7C, that is with 2x280 rads, fans at constant 950rpms, with good (but fairly restrictive) dust filters in place. My system though is dead quiet and stays clean in a Fractal design R5 case with gpu temps 45C and cpu temps 50's gaming. (delta air to water would be less with no dust filters and open bench)

I will always have ~2x280 rads per cpu/gpu since I wont use fan speeds over 950 rpms, and I like good (restrictive) air filters, and pushing air into a case always add restriction versus open bench. 2x280 will fit in many modern cases.

But like somebadlemonade said, you can go to xtremerigs and see what your various delta air to water would be with various rads/fans (though you need to factor in about 30% performance loss for filters and case restriction unless your running open bench as well).
I do have a toddler so

active toddler + eletronics + water cooling + open bench =
aaskull.gif


Also I would rather clean dust out of filters than the case, then again I was shocked to see how much dust was in my rad, when I cleaned it out for the first time a few months ago and that was 4 years of use ><.

I don't use my PC much, friends will get me into a new game, I will binge game a few hours after putting toddler down, go to bed, wife will nag me for being tired. Give it a break for a few days, play some more. Friends find a new game that doesn't interest me and they quit the game I like, I get annoyed at other random people in the game, quit playing game for months/week, and leave PC off for weeks. Then friends introduces me to new game I like, rinse and repeat. Other than that I go to work, chase a toddler, and try not to get yelled at by the wife.
 
#8 ·
A 280 of the same thickness as a 360 will generally out perform it, you have to take surface area into account
280*140-(43/2)*pi^2 > 360*120-(38/2)*pi^2

I'm not sure if that's still a common 120mm fan hub size or not anymore, but the rad right behind the fan hub will always be dead space unless you run shrouds/fan spacers even if I'm way off on the fan hub size there are three of them on the 360 and only 2 on the 280 with comparable fans the 280 has more rad space being actively cooled.

And the d5 is the go to pump since it's quieter and doesn't get as hot running full tilt in a low restriction loop like a DDC does.

You need to add a heatsink to a DDC for it to not kill itself running full tilt in a low restriction loop so it isn't any cheaper and since the DDC is noiser it's not really great pump for setups like yours.

There are a few cases that can support a 560, well at that point they tend to support dual 560s, the thermaltake tower is one. I plan on running a 560 externally and make a rad box around it maybe use a 30-32" tool box to house it with the pump/res combo
 
#9 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solarity View Post

I would need to build a case around such a monster, 4x140 0_o are there many cases that accept something that big? I guess it make sense to buy one large rad than have a couple small ones. I thought it would be better to have a rad between the GPU and CPU, but common opinion is showing me that it is 6 or 1 half dozen. What case do you have to host that monster, I went to check your profile, but saw nothing.
I should of been more clear, what I mean is get 240/280 per component, so 480/560 in total, dont have to be one 560 or one 480, you can get 280+280 or 420/280 whatever fits your case, I do reccomend rads for 140mm fans, imo they are quieter.
I run a thermaltake P5 case, and the 560 just barely fits
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#10 ·
Careful on some case that do say support 280 on top, but actually only support 240.
As the size difference will determine if it will be a thick or thin rad.
Same goes for the front.

Single GTX1080 and depending on what CPU you have. a 240+360 I find to be the most benefits which allows you to be able to add a 2nd GTX1080 if you like and push higher results.
Also with the 240+360 will help if your ambient temps decide to get high and very warm.
 
#12 ·
It really comes down to what fans and how much you are willing to spend,

120mm you can get fans in 2 packs that don't suck for like $29-33 for a set of 2, or you can go the cheaper route and get swiftech 120mm pwm helix fans for $6 a piece, the cheapest you can get good 140mm fans is $17-20, not taking lighting into account.

That's what it really comes down to when choosing between 120 and 140.
 
#13 ·
I'm running a 6700k oc to 4.4 and a single 1080 in a Fractal Design Define S (Drogon in sig). I've got two HW labs GTS nemesis 360s with Noiseblocker eloops pwm version all monitored and contolled through an Aquaero 6 LT. GPU is overclocked as well and my temps whilst gaming average 44-46 with occasional spikes to 47 or 48. Ambient temp is ususally around 24C. That said, the case, the airflow you can generate and your radiator capacity coupled with your ambient temps will determine the how well your loop performs. Buy high static pressure fans like NBs or EK vardars. I believe even the Corsair ML series and the Phanteks MPs are decent as well. I wouldn't go any less than the 240+360 combo and would highly recommend a D5 pump. They're so quiet.

Also, if the budget allows, a custom water-cooled loop controlled via an Aquacomputer Aquaero is a beautiful thing. I base my fan curves off the temp of the coolant. Whilst internet browsing, the fans spin around 15% and under gaming load they approach 40%. The functionality of the Aquaero is vast. Sorry if I sound like a fanboy (perhaps I am) but the additional cost to your system is fractional compared to the benefits. Just my two pennies.
Good luck
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#14 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebadlemonade View Post

And the d5 is the go to pump since it's quieter and doesn't get as hot running full tilt in a low restriction loop like a DDC does.

You need to add a heatsink to a DDC for it to not kill itself running full tilt in a low restriction loop so it isn't any cheaper and since the DDC is noiser it's not really great pump for setups like yours.
Well this is so untrue. I have a DDC pump without a heatsink in a loop similar to OP's (5820K @4.5ghz and gtx 1080) and it never gets audible or hot. Of course, you are not going to run it anywhere close to its top speed in such, relatively low restriction and simple loop.
 
#15 ·
i run an i7 7800-x overclocked to 4.7ghz and gtx 1080ti at 2050mhz in a single loop with an ek d5 pwm pump and ek 360mmx60mm radiator and my load temps are about ~50c under load on both cpu and gpu, it was about the same when i had a 7700k at 4.8 and a gtx 1080 at 2075mhz. btw 1080ti block is reference bitspower block and cpu block is an ek x299 monoblock for gigabyte boards. hope this helps
 
#16 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by ansha View Post

Well this is so untrue. I have a DDC pump without a heatsink in a loop similar to OP's (5820K @4.5ghz and gtx 1080) and it never gets audible or hot. Of course, you are not going to run it anywhere close to its top speed in such, relatively low restriction and simple loop.
Not all DDC pumps are pwm. . . Most now says are and did you read the post? Running full speed they get hot with a low restriction loop. In what way is it wrong or untrue? When you said the same thing?
 
#17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebadlemonade View Post

Not all DDC pumps are pwm. . . Most now says are and did you read the post? Running full speed they get hot with a low restriction loop. In what way is it wrong or untrue? When you said the same thing?
Why even mention such irrelevant thing? No one is gonna drive that pump full power so why even mention it?!
 
#18 ·
With a newbie you should always be specific leave nothing to be misunderstood, it's like running the pump dry. You have to mention it every time you talk about filling the loop.

Since we are so familiar with working with these pumps we know it's common knowledge for us. But to some unfamiliar with them wouldn't it stand to reason they wouldn't know to not run the pump full speed if it gets them better performance, especially if they used an AIO where they could run the pump full speed without it getting too hot?
 
#19 ·
I am looking at a few cases for this project:

DIYPC Vanguard-RGB
Rosewill CULLINAN
CM Master Case Pro 5
CM Master Case Maker 5t
Crystal 460X RGB

My current case will not fit anything but a a couple of 120mm and one 140mm radiators. All the above can house a 360MM in front and at least a 280MM on top. The case I am most drawn to is the Cullinan appearance wise and Crystal 460x. The 460x does come with static pressure RGB fans, but it is the smallest case of them all being 2 inches in height and length. Might be too tight to get the rads in it comfortably. The Vanguard looks nice, but seems like very little details about it online. I like the 5t's tempered glass and modularity, though not the red accents and it looks impossible to get some parts like the tempered glass panel for the Pro 5. Not a fan of how CM hyped up modular cases, then didn't follow up with parts.

Granted the case is cheap, though I wonder how a custom loop would work in these.
 
#20 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solarity View Post

I am looking at a few cases for this project:

DIYPC Vanguard-RGB
Rosewill CULLINAN
CM Master Case Pro 5
CM Master Case Maker 5t
Crystal 460X RGB

My current case will not fit anything but a a couple of 120mm and one 140mm radiators. All the above can house a 360MM in front and at least a 280MM on top. The case I am most drawn to is the Cullinan appearance wise and Crystal 460x. The 460x does come with static pressure RGB fans, but it is the smallest case of them all being 2 inches in height and length. Might be too tight to get the rads in it comfortably. The Vanguard looks nice, but seems like very little details about it online. I like the 5t's tempered glass and modularity, though not the red accents and it looks impossible to get some parts like the tempered glass panel for the Pro 5. Not a fan of how CM hyped up modular cases, then didn't follow up with parts.

Granted the case is cheap, though I wonder how a custom loop would work in these.
Just cause you can do 140mm x2 on top, do not mean a rad is sup[ported.

CM front max is 35mm Top has really bad exhaust or none at all. Plus looks like crap and being high cost. Not worth it.
DIYPC the front fans mounting is not spaced correctly, and placement blocks the side vents.
Crystal is 240 max only on top, but may have clearance issues if going with 360 rad in front with 35mm+ for more.
Rosewill 360 front limit of 35mm max. With 240 on top.

As for thickness, you will need to get proper measurements. As what I mentioned is estimates.
 
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#21 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp33d Junki3 View Post

Just cause you can do 140mm x2 on top, do not mean a rad is sup[ported.

CM front max is 35mm Top has really bad exhaust or none at all. Plus looks like crap and being high cost. Not worth it.
DIYPC the front fans mounting is not spaced correctly, and placement blocks the side vents.
Crystal is 240 max only on top, but may have clearance issues if going with 360 rad in front with 35mm+ for more.
Rosewill 360 front limit of 35mm max. With 240 on top.

As for thickness, you will need to get proper measurements. As what I mentioned is estimates.
Interesting comment on the DIYPC and while I don't think the CM is that ugly, it isn't a cheap option and I will be stuck with a 5.25 bays that I don't want. My two favorites aesthetics are the Crystal 460x and the Rosewill Cullinan. I was initially worried about the glass front panel, though after reading some reviews I am more comfortable as enough airflow is provided from the 1.2" long slits on the sides of the front bezel. From what I read the Rosewill can take a 360mm on both the top and the front. I did read about the limitation of the 35mm rad for the front, though at the same time it seems like the top radiator give the case more room. I do like that the 460x comes with RGB static pressure fans, which I would want SP RGB fans for liquid cooling, though I am worried about the case being to small. I know it shares the same case foot print as the 400c, though it seems like it will be tight. The Rosewill is larger comes with 3 sides of glass, while the 460x only has two. As much as I can read reviews about everything, it seems like people's mileage may vary. Only a minority of system builders do custom loops and there are many cases out there from them to pick.
 
#22 ·
I just read a bunch of reviews from xtremerigs.net, what a mouth full! It is interesting how some thinner rads out preformed the thicker ones.

I am thinking about a couple of options:

Cullinan Build:
Front: HW Labs Nemesis GTS 360
Top: HW Labs Nemesis GTS 360 (If it can fit) or HW Labs Nemesis GTX 280

260x Build:
Front: TBA
Top: TBA (max of 240)

I am still working on seeing if everything will fit. I would rather learn before I buy items
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