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Overwatch Raw Input - Page 5

post #41 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alya View Post

Except that's not true, I get 25/25 on inputlag_AB with the 6ms setting, and popups (if I remember correctly) also got a similar result, both of us have also discussed in the past about feeling things many others on this forum didn't with specific mouse/sensors.

Maybe what you feel as "lag" is something related to frame pacing. AB lag test uses vsync off if I'm not mistaken. The only way to be certain about this is when we have actual 1000Hz monitor and a GPU capable to delivering 1000FPS with locked frametime, 'til that day there's no proper way to test this.

This type of thing can't be measured with "feeling". Even our blinks have a duration about 200ms~.
post #42 of 73
V-Sync creates a lot of input lag compared to V-Sync off, at the same frame rate.
I don't know why you're trying to refute that.

Futhermore, the 6ms input lag you're speaking about is the SIM values shown, and that doesn't really show all the other variables going into it.
You might be getting "6 ms" input lag from the engine OW engine itself, but that' doesn't include the image buffer that's being held by using V-Sync.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daniloberserk View Post

Maybe what you feel as "lag" is something related to frame pacing. AB lag test uses vsync off if I'm not mistaken. The only way to be certain about this is when we have actual 1000Hz monitor and a GPU capable to delivering 1000FPS with locked frametime, 'til that day there's no proper way to test this.

This type of thing can't be measured with "feeling". Even our blinks have a duration about 200ms~.
post #43 of 73
Has anyone actually done a proper analysis of overwatch input lag? I can only find battlenonsense's "button to pixel" stuff, but that isn't very useful. Button to pixel is not the same as sensor/mousemovement to pixel or whatever you want to call it. How mouse movement feels in a game is about the lag on mouse movement causing on screen movement not on hitting m1 until getting a firing graphic or movement due to strafing.
post #44 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by daniloberserk View Post

Maybe what you feel as "lag" is something related to frame pacing. AB lag test uses vsync off if I'm not mistaken. The only way to be certain about this is when we have actual 1000Hz monitor and a GPU capable to delivering 1000FPS with locked frametime, 'til that day there's no proper way to test this.

This type of thing can't be measured with "feeling". Even our blinks have a duration about 200ms~.

It does have v-sync disabled, you're right, I'm just saying that I can feel the difference between as little as 6ms when it comes to lag or delay (and it's partly why I can't use mice with a lot of smoothing)

I'd say that determining exactly what makes mice or monitors feel different is not measurable with feeling, but we can definitely feel when something is "off" from what we're used to.
Edited by Alya - 10/21/17 at 1:20pm
    
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 4790K SABERTOOTH Z97 MARK 1 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760 Corsair  
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Corsair  Seagate ST31500341AS MSI DH24ABS Stock 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Windows 10 64 bit Samsung 2233RZ BenQ XL2411Z Filco Majestouch-2 (Cherry MX Black) 
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post #45 of 73
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Edited by Timecard - 10/21/17 at 4:16pm
post #46 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by nodicaL View Post

V-Sync creates a lot of input lag compared to V-Sync off, at the same frame rate.
I don't know why you're trying to refute that.

Futhermore, the 6ms input lag you're speaking about is the SIM values shown, and that doesn't really show all the other variables going into it.
You might be getting "6 ms" input lag from the engine OW engine itself, but that' doesn't include the image buffer that's being held by using V-Sync.


There's a huge difference between just vsync ON and vsync ON with proper framerate cap, and I provided two links for anyone who was curious about. Did you read any the links I provided? Did you tested for yourself?

There's a lot of misconception about this SIM value to. No one's know exactly what it means (even this battlenonsense guy discussed about this in some comments in a video). I talked to a technical MVP in the forum once, and he confirmed the servers from Bliz works in 60Hz, so... I'm pretty sure this SIM number just interpolates the data to smooth the animation about phisics and players. Server side, it receives and transmits data in 60Hz, regardless of your FPS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chr1spe View Post

Has anyone actually done a proper analysis of overwatch input lag? I can only find battlenonsense's "button to pixel" stuff, but that isn't very useful. Button to pixel is not the same as sensor/mousemovement to pixel or whatever you want to call it. How mouse movement feels in a game is about the lag on mouse movement causing on screen movement not on hitting m1 until getting a firing graphic or movement due to strafing.

Why in the hell the "button" latency (excluding mechanical and hardware delay from the device) would be lower then the mouse movement? Blizzard already confirmed OW uses unbuffered raw input, always: https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/6xet7k/your_mouse_input_is_being_buffered_to_the_next/
post #47 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alya View Post

It does have v-sync disabled, you're right, I'm just saying that I can feel the difference between as little as 6ms when it comes to lag or delay (and it's partly why I can't use mice with a lot of smoothing)

I'd say that determining exactly what makes mice or monitors feel different is not measurable with feeling, but we can definitely feel when something is "off" from what we're used to.

I tested the AB lag test some months ago and did get some low values to. But I remember there's some things to tune before do a proper testing.
Also, I'm not sure how stable is the frametimes. Maybe when the cursor change sides it generates microstuttering or something, and people misinterpret this behaviour as input lag. I would love to test this myself but I lack a high speed camera. But blurbusters is a very good source to reliable information about display lag.

People need to remember the "input lag" have a quite large path, maybe the bottleneck is in one source and people keep blaming another source.

Sensor feeling is a very different story, float sensor not necessarily have something to do with inputlag. Basically any disconnected movement you feel could be named as "input lag", and even so, we just get used to some different technologies, even with their flaws. I remember reading this article saying how PTE sensors are more "precise" in a lot of ways: https://www.hindawi.com/journals/js/2016/4281397/ but a lot of people just hate playing with then, even on hard pads who reduces greatly the positive acceleration. Go figure.
post #48 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by daniloberserk View Post


Why in the hell the "button" latency (excluding mechanical and hardware delay from the device) would be lower then the mouse movement? Blizzard already confirmed OW uses unbuffered raw input, always: https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/6xet7k/your_mouse_input_is_being_buffered_to_the_next/

There is a large difference between how rotation, movement, and firing animations work in online games. Rotation should actually normally be significantly faster than movement or firing animations afaik. @qsxcv knows a lot more about these things than I do, but I've had conversations about this with him before and in CS:GO rotation latency is much lower than firing or moving and firing and moving even depend on ping iirc. I'm not sure why that would be true considering there is movement prediction so the client isn't necessarily waiting for server confirmation, but qsxcv has done lots of tests on these things and I trust what he says.
Edited by chr1spe - 10/21/17 at 6:16pm
post #49 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by chr1spe View Post

There is a large difference between how rotation, movement, and firing animations work in online games. Rotation should actually normally be significantly faster than movement or firing animations afaik. @qsxcv knows a lot more about these things than I do, but I've had conversations about this with him before and in CS:GO rotation latency is much lower than firing or moving and firing and moving even depend on ping iirc. I'm not sure why that would be true considering there is movement prediction so the client isn't necessarily waiting for server confirmation, but qsxcv has done lots of tests on these things and I trust what he says.

I still don't see the point to measure one by one since this tests just compares one setup to another. The only thing who could happen is the "overall input/output lag" can be higher or lower, but the difference between then should stays the same.

If you're curious about the difference between different movement/ abilities/ camera movement, ok then. But this is not the discussion here...
post #50 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by daniloberserk View Post

I still don't see the point to measure one by one since this tests just compares one setup to another. The only thing who could happen is the "overall input/output lag" can be higher or lower, but the difference between then should stays the same.

If you're curious about the difference between different movement/ abilities/ camera movement, ok then. But this is not the discussion here...

The original discussion was overwatch vs CS as far as input lag. Comparing the input lag for movement doesn't say much about the input lag for rotation so things like battlenonsense's stuff really doesn't give any information about comparing mouse movement in different games.
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