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[Ars] No, you’re not being paranoid. Sites really are watching your every move - Page 3

post #21 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post

I'm not even sure what this means anymore.

It used to mean that you are paranoid for thinking you don't have privacy.

Now it seems to mean that you're a tinfoil hatted conspiracy theorist for even having an expectation of privacy -- even in the face of incontrovertible proof of blatant, excessive privacy infringement.

Look at the details of the article, it's a conspiracy theorist wet dream.
Quote:
A study published last week reported that 482 of the 50,000 most trafficked websites employ such scripts, usually with no clear disclosure.

so roughly 1% omg, the world is going to end.
Quote:
Collection of page content by third-party replay scripts may cause sensitive information, such as medical conditions, credit card details, and other personal information displayed on a page, to leak to the third-party as part of the recording,"

yet more sensational scare tactics.


The entire article smacks of someone with a hidden agenda just searching something to complain about.
post #22 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanS79 View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post

I'm not even sure what this means anymore.

It used to mean that you are paranoid for thinking you don't have privacy.

Now it seems to mean that you're a tinfoil hatted conspiracy theorist for even having an expectation of privacy -- even in the face of incontrovertible proof of blatant, excessive privacy infringement.

Look at the details of the article, it's a conspiracy theorist wet dream.
Quote:
A study published last week reported that 482 of the 50,000 most trafficked websites employ such scripts, usually with no clear disclosure.

so roughly 1% omg, the world is going to end.
Quote:
Collection of page content by third-party replay scripts may cause sensitive information, such as medical conditions, credit card details, and other personal information displayed on a page, to leak to the third-party as part of the recording,"

yet more sensational scare tactics.


The entire article smacks of someone with a hidden agenda just searching something to complain about.

So you missed the entire second quote in the OP, is that it?

Here, I'll repost it for you:
Quote:
Walgreens.com, for instance, sent medical conditions and prescriptions alongside user names to FullStory despite the extensive use of manual redactions on the pharmacy site.

Another example: the account page for clothing store Bonobos leaked full credit card details—character by character as they were typed—to FullStory. Adding insult to injury, Yandex, Hotjar, and Smartlook all offer dashboards that use unencrypted HTTP when subscribing publishers replay visitor sessions, even when the original sessions were protected by HTTPS.

Sure, nothing to see here, move along folks. Seriously now...
 
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post #23 of 40
Wow, there are really tracking deniers?

There have been mouse pointer heatmaps for websites back in 2002.

There are hundreds, if not thousands of different companies involved in retaining, analyzing and selling your metadata. Before WWW, there were companies called marketing Research Firms that used to pay you for information that is now mined from you for free.
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post #24 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanS79 View Post

Look at the details of the article, it's a conspiracy theorist wet dream.
so roughly 1% omg, the world is going to end.
yet more sensational scare tactics.


The entire article smacks of someone with a hidden agenda just searching something to complain about.
So first you call the article a "conspiracy theorists wet dream" .. and then you accuse the article of having a hidden agenda?

Interesting moves. First, equate proven privacy infringement to conspiracy theory. Then, accuse people who care about privacy of being conspiracy theorists. And in a final grand act of irony, be the only person here to actually present a conspiracy theory -- an alleged "hidden agenda" of the journalists reporting on privacy concerns.

*clap

Bravo. Truly.
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post #25 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanS79 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post

I'm not even sure what this means anymore.

It used to mean that you are paranoid for thinking you don't have privacy.

Now it seems to mean that you're a tinfoil hatted conspiracy theorist for even having an expectation of privacy -- even in the face of incontrovertible proof of blatant, excessive privacy infringement.

Look at the details of the article, it's a conspiracy theorist wet dream.
Quote:
A study published last week reported that 482 of the 50,000 most trafficked websites employ such scripts, usually with no clear disclosure.

so roughly 1% omg, the world is going to end.
Quote:
Collection of page content by third-party replay scripts may cause sensitive information, such as medical conditions, credit card details, and other personal information displayed on a page, to leak to the third-party as part of the recording,"

yet more sensational scare tactics.


The entire article smacks of someone with a hidden agenda just searching something to complain about.

Double speak at its best.

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post #26 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

So you missed the entire second quote in the OP, is that it?

Here, I'll repost it for you:
Sure, nothing to see here, move along folks. Seriously now...

Well, I don't personally care if people know what meds I take. Here, I'll tell you myself, I'm currently taking Gabapentin and fioricet for my recurring migraine headaches. That said, I can at least understand why some people would be sensitive to that sort of info getting out (if they took something like Valtrex for instance), but if that is the case I would always recommend not using pharmacy websites in the first place (or any other type of site that deals in information you wish to remain private) since, as I've said over and over, you shouldn't have an expectation of privacy in a public domain such as the internet in the first place.

People should always consider getting on the internet as no different than leaving their homes and going out in public. A website is really no different than a store; you walk in and they have every right to video tape you for example. Remember, you do not own the websites you visit and you shouldn't expect to be able to dictate what that website does or doesn't do because of "Mah privacy!!"
post #27 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by xTesla1856 View Post

Why not let toilet paper companies film your toilet 24/7? Toilet paper engineers can't possibly think of all the ways you use their paper and when it might tear.

People who think like you make me sick angrysmiley.gif

What?? I don't even know what to say to that. The comparison is ridiculous. You are comparing installing cameras in toilet paper rolls (or in peoples bathrooms) versus adding a little additional code to a existing application.

If it makes you sick, that is really just your problem haha, this type of thing is everywhere in the world. If you don't like it, don't use any piece of software that you didn't write yourself.
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post #28 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

So you missed the entire second quote in the OP, is that it?

Here, I'll repost it for you:
Sure, nothing to see here, move along folks. Seriously now...

Well, I don't personally care if people know what meds I take. Here, I'll tell you myself, I'm currently taking Gabapentin and fioricet for my recurring migraine headaches. That said, I can at least understand why some people would be sensitive to that sort of info getting out (if they took something like Valtrex for instance), but if that is the case I would always recommend not using pharmacy websites in the first place (or any other type of site that deals in information you wish to remain private) since, as I've said over and over, you shouldn't have an expectation of privacy in a public domain such as the internet in the first place.

People should always consider getting on the internet as no different than leaving their homes and going out in public. A website is really no different than a store; you walk in and they have every right to video tape you for example. Remember, you do not own the websites you visit and you shouldn't expect to be able to dictate what that website does or doesn't do because of "Mah privacy!!"


Great, more selective arguments, despite having quoted it again. Let's do it a third time, shall we?

But first let me tell you, everything is being handled electronically and over the Internet these days, so your argument that you should not use a pharmacy site if you have some legitimate privacy qualms - which you understand exist - doesn't hold any water. When you go to a physical pharmacy you have the same problem - things are handled electronically. You can't apply a double standard to the trustworthiness of the parties you make deals with in 2017 based on whether they have a physical store or an on-line one. Newsflash: some have both and they don't have separate databases just because of some delusion of increased privacy on the physical location.

A deceiving party is a deceiving party. Insecure practices regarding customers' privacy are insecure practices, period. The main point here is to hold these people and corporations accountable, demand better practices and data handling standards and not try labyrinthine ways to try to relativize the issues.

Quote:
Walgreens.com, for instance, sent medical conditions and prescriptions alongside user names to FullStory despite the extensive use of manual redactions on the pharmacy site.

Another example: the account page for clothing store Bonobos leaked full credit card details—character by character as they were typed—to FullStory. Adding insult to injury, Yandex, Hotjar, and Smartlook all offer dashboards that use unencrypted HTTP when subscribing publishers replay visitor sessions, even when the original sessions were protected by HTTPS.

1. You are being deceived. When the site applies redactions on the site, giving you a false sense of security and trust on the party you're doing business with, but then goes behind your back and shares everything without said redactions, are you ok with this? This is deception. Has nothing do with the Internet being public or whatever, that is a false question. There are security measures and protocols that you think are in place and thus have a higher degree of trust to conduct business with said party and then find out it's not so. Is that ok with you?

2. Glad to see that you completely missed that part where the clothing store was leaking all your credit card details character for character to a third party site. Are you ok with that too? Because you didn't say a word about that.

3. Also glad to see that the Internet being public means that HTTPS should not exist by that account. After all, what's the problem with being deceived when you are in an HTTPS session but then everything you did on said site is transmitted over the Internet to a third party (first problem) without HTTPS (second, major problem)? No problem here either, right?


We need better standards and not make up excuses.
Edited by tpi2007 - 11/24/17 at 11:41am
 
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post #29 of 40
Look anyone arguing against the consumer/person's interest on behalf of greedy corporations, stakeholders and big brother, who already have all the money and power in the world, deserves to be ignored.
 
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post #30 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Great, more selective arguments, despite having quoted it again. Let's do it a third time, shall we?

But first let me tell you, everything is being handled electronically and over the Internet these days, so your argument that you should not use a pharmacy site if you have some legitimate privacy qualms - which you understand exist - doesn't hold any water. When you go to a physical pharmacy you have the same problem - things are handled electronically. You can't apply a double standard to the trustworthiness of the parties you make deals with in 2017 based on whether they have a physical store or an on-line one. Newsflash: some have both and they don't have separate databases just because of some delusion of increased privacy on the physical location.

A deceiving party is a deceiving party. Insecure practices regarding customers' privacy are insecure practices, period. The main point here is to hold these people and corporations accountable, demand better practices and data handling standards and not try labyrinthine ways to try to relativize the issues.
1. You are being deceived. When the site applies redactions on the site, giving you a false sense of security and trust on the party you're doing business with, but then goes behind your back and shares everything without said redactions, are you ok with this? This is deception. Has nothing do with the Internet being public or whatever, that is a false question. There are security measures and protocols that you think are in place and thus have a higher degree of trust to conduct business with said party and then find out it's not so. Is that ok with you?

2. Glad to see that you completely missed that part where the clothing store was leaking all your credit card details character for character to a third party site. Are you ok with that too? Because you didn't say a word about that.

3. Also glad to see that the Internet being public means that HTTPS should not exist by that account. After all, what's the problem with being deceived when you are in an HTTPS session but then everything you did on said site is transmitted over the Internet to a third party (first problem) without HTTPS (second, major problem)? No problem here either, right?


We need better standards and not make up excuses.

Those are actually some good points you made. I guess privacy is just not subjectively all that important to me (because I really fail to believe that my life is anywhere near important enough to anybody to be a threat to me), but you make a good argument regarding deceptive practices. If the site specifically tells you that it is secure and that your info will not be made available to other parties then they should abide by that pledge. My arguments regarding the internet in general also encompasses HTTPS for me personally, because I don't trust that even that is actually private in the first place (again, I don't really care that it isn't, but I can respect that others do). I will concede that these are subjectively MY feelings regarding "internet privacy", which I don't feel is actually a thing. But as you stated, companies should abide by their own pledges when they explicitly make them, regardless of the overall lack of privacy on the internet, so I'd Rep you if I could for making that point that I clearly missed.
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