Overclock.net banner

Okay i am so frustrated i am about to ditch my 1700x and sell it to switch to a 8600k.

2K views 37 replies 23 participants last post by  seanpatrick 
#1 ·
Before I start this I completely understand I should not expect a chip to preform better than advertized, and any improvment above stock frequencies are just a bonus, and that all silicon differs/.

My OC that was rock solid stable, left prime 95 on for 36 hours no faults, is now unstable with 1.0.0.6b bios update. Not only that i cant even get any stable clocks over stock with new bios. I downgraded to old bios still wont clock like it used to. Now my DDR4 kit THAT AMD RECOMMEND will not run at its stock clocks of 3200MHz. I had it set to 1.4v from its default 1.35 and that seemed to fix the issue... until today when i load up pubg and i get 2 page fault errors and a memory management error blue screen and one CDT. I thought it might be my CPU oc messing it up so i went back to stock and NOPE.

So to get it stable again I have to be at stock frequency on my 1700x @1.365v (yes that is above the required 1.35 max of its turbo) and underclock my RAM to 3066MHz @1.35v I am so frustrated. The main reason I go thte 1700x was because i am a photographer and a gamer. The 1700x improved my work flow in photoshop a crap ton, 20x faster loading my D810 RAW files and adjustments made to the image are instantaneous, versus the loading bars I used to get with my 2600k. Mean while my GF's rig with a 4650k @4.5GHz is 20fps faster in GTAV with the same GTX1080 which is really depressing me.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. If i cant sort this im just going to sell my mobo+cpu and eat the differance and upgrade to the 8700k. In all my years of building I have never had this many stability issues. If I could go back in time I would slap myself and say wait for the 8700k...
 
See less See more
#2 ·
What your describing could be caused by a multitude of issues. Bad OS updates, corrupt service or even electron migration. What people fail to realize as we get smaller and smaller dies running at higher and higher speeds you need more voltage. What we sacrifice is durability. This is whats become to be known as the silicone lottery. Not too long ago parts were designed to last 10 years or more, now most manufacturers are creating products with a useful life of around 5 years and even shorter when you start 24/7 OCing stuff. I'm not sure how long you have had this chip but its possible you got a weak chip and pushing it beyond its set limits has made it finally go over the edge.
 
#3 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by vmatt1203 View Post

Before I start this I completely understand I should not expect a chip to preform better than advertized, and any improvment above stock frequencies are just a bonus, and that all silicon differs/.

My OC that was rock solid stable, left prime 95 on for 36 hours no faults, is now unstable with 1.0.0.6b bios update. Not only that i cant even get any stable clocks over stock with new bios. I downgraded to old bios still wont clock like it used to. Now my DDR4 kit THAT AMD RECOMMEND will not run at its stock clocks of 3200MHz. I had it set to 1.4v from its default 1.35 and that seemed to fix the issue... until today when i load up pubg and i get 2 page fault errors and a memory management error blue screen and one CDT. I thought it might be my CPU oc messing it up so i went back to stock and NOPE.

So to get it stable again I have to be at stock frequency on my 1700x @1.365v (yes that is above the required 1.35 max of its turbo) and underclock my RAM to 3066MHz @1.35v I am so frustrated. The main reason I go thte 1700x was because i am a photographer and a gamer. The 1700x improved my work flow in photoshop a crap ton, 20x faster loading my D810 RAW files and adjustments made to the image are instantaneous, versus the loading bars I used to get with my 2600k. Mean while my GF's rig with a 4650k @4.5GHz is 20fps faster in GTAV with the same GTX1080 which is really depressing me.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. If i cant sort this im just going to sell my mobo+cpu and eat the differance and upgrade to the 8700k. In all my years of building I have never had this many stability issues. If I could go back in time I would slap myself and say wait for the 8700k...
bro... this sucks for you. don't have any suggestions however, when i have stable OC on any components i do not update to newest driver and or bios... cuz even when you roll back doesn't mean you will have what you had. so and too many variables for me.

with all that said, i what i would do is, re start from scratch. would roll back bios then would do a fresh install of windows and go from there. i know most don't want to but it's always the best starting point imho and has helped me in the past.

good luck and hope you sort yourself soon... i really do...
 
#4 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloSolider View Post

What your describing could be caused by a multitude of issues. Bad OS updates, corrupt service or even electron migration. What people fail to realize as we get smaller and smaller dies running at higher and higher speeds you need more voltage. What we sacrifice is durability. This is whats become to be known as the silicone lottery. Not too long ago parts were designed to last 10 years or more, now most manufacturers are creating products with a useful life of around 5 years and even shorter when you start 24/7 OCing stuff. I'm not sure how long you have had this chip but its possible you got a weak chip and pushing it beyond its set limits has made it finally go over the edge.
I know that, but i was running stable at 3.95GHz @ 1.385v for a while before the update to my bios. After it updated nothing is stable. I roll back and still nothing is stable. I seriously doubt its electron migration considering I have never once exceeded the recommended voltages for the chip. My RAM has been an issue since day one but again it was solid for a long while before the bios update. Day one of my 2600k I slapped 4.8GHz on it dropped the timings on my 1600MHz DDR3 and I was off, that system was rock solid for almost 7 years. This rig I cant even get stable at the stock frequensies. I am starting to think they should have waited to launch ryzen till next year and fix all the issues they had before release.

I have run memtest multiple times with no faults and tried it in another system and it ran stock fine. Its still at stock timings as well.
 
#6 ·
Did you make the bios update under Windows mode ?

If yes, do a FULL CLEAR CMOS and do the upgrade again under DOS/USB boot mode.

Good Luck !
 
#7 ·
What motherboard, RAM, and power supply do you have? Full specs would be helpful.

What are/were your temps like?

Did you reset CMOS between BIOS revisions, and how did you perform the flash? At a minimum I recommend you reset your CMOS (for both BIOSes if your board has two). A re-flash of the earlier BIOS revision wouldn't hurt either as others gave suggested.

With the CMOS reset try everything at stock with the RAM at stock non-xmp settings and see if the CPU passes prime on stock voltage. Then either focus on CPU or RAM over clock first.
 
#8 ·
I cringe a little everytime i see someone post something like "I ran such and such torture test for 24+ hours and was rock solid stable" only to have them complain about stability issues later.

Having been that guy myself I am much more conservitive in how hard and how long I stress test things. I have ruined hardware from overdoing it before. I learend my lesson.

Let me be clear that I am not saying you for sure have damaged or compromised your hardware in anyway. Time will tell and I hope you can get it sorted out. It just always give me a bad feeling in my gut when I hear a story like this. Who knew bad memories of burnt hardware lived in the gut?

I absolutely would take others advice and reset everything to stock settings and roll back BIOS and do a clean windows install. Software glitches can be miserable to fix and diagnose but a clean slate is a good way to rule them out.
 
#9 ·
If it were me, I would revert to the previous BIOS, clear CMOS and then reseat the RAM and test. FFR (******* format reinstall) if all else fails. Maybe if I had a spare known good PSU kicking around, might even try to use that for a test.
 
#10 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by vmatt1203 View Post

Before I start this I completely understand I should not expect a chip to preform better than advertized, and any improvment above stock frequencies are just a bonus, and that all silicon differs/.

My OC that was rock solid stable, left prime 95 on for 36 hours no faults, is now unstable with 1.0.0.6b bios update. Not only that i cant even get any stable clocks over stock with new bios. I downgraded to old bios still wont clock like it used to. Now my DDR4 kit THAT AMD RECOMMEND will not run at its stock clocks of 3200MHz. I had it set to 1.4v from its default 1.35 and that seemed to fix the issue... until today when i load up pubg and i get 2 page fault errors and a memory management error blue screen and one CDT. I thought it might be my CPU oc messing it up so i went back to stock and NOPE.

So to get it stable again I have to be at stock frequency on my 1700x @1.365v (yes that is above the required 1.35 max of its turbo) and underclock my RAM to 3066MHz @1.35v I am so frustrated. The main reason I go thte 1700x was because i am a photographer and a gamer. The 1700x improved my work flow in photoshop a crap ton, 20x faster loading my D810 RAW files and adjustments made to the image are instantaneous, versus the loading bars I used to get with my 2600k. Mean while my GF's rig with a 4650k @4.5GHz is 20fps faster in GTAV with the same GTX1080 which is really depressing me.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. If i cant sort this im just going to sell my mobo+cpu and eat the differance and upgrade to the 8700k. In all my years of building I have never had this many stability issues. If I could go back in time I would slap myself and say wait for the 8700k...
Why on earth would you run Prime95 for 36 hours? Since perusing these forums since 2012 I have never heard anyone running a torture test for that period of time.
 
#11 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisjames61 View Post

Why on earth would you run Prime95 for 36 hours? Since perusing these forums since 2012 I have never heard anyone running a torture test for that period of time.
What? I have heard of people running for multiple days to ensure a stable clock. In fact, I have been chastised before because "A couple hours in Prime doesn't mean its stable, you should run it for at least a day or two." I've been hearing that on this forum since I joined in 2009.

I got a stable clock again with 3.9GHz @1.425v, I still had to dial back my ram to 3066MHz @1.40v to make it stable again. But I did lots of research and I finally stumbled on a video of an AMD rep giving an overclocking conference to video reviewers and he goes extremely in depth on what voltages and offsets to use. He specifically says that you should never go over 1.425v for 24/7 use or you will largely reduce the life of your processor. I really think my overclock is being limited because I can not control my SOC voltage with this board. Also my board seems to offset my voltage under load, while in bios I have it set to 1.425v, CPUZ never records it going higher than 1.392v. I still think i am going to switch to the 8700k and sell my board/1700x/AIO Cooler as a combo. The new board and 8700k are almost the same price I paid for my combo (got ryzen back in July) and will only be losing the fvf that ebay charges. So its a win win and i lose almost no money while gaining 10-20fps in almost every title I regularly play.
 
#12 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by vmatt1203 View Post

What? I have heard of people running for multiple days to ensure a stable clock. In fact, I have been chastised before because "A couple hours in Prime doesn't mean its stable, you should run it for at least a day or two." I've been hearing that on this forum since I joined in 2009.

I got a stable clock again with 3.9GHz @1.425v, I still had to dial back my ram to 3066MHz @1.40v to make it stable again. But I did lots of research and I finally stumbled on a video of an AMD rep giving an overclocking conference to video reviewers and he goes extremely in depth on what voltages and offsets to use. He specifically says that you should never go over 1.425v for 24/7 use or you will largely reduce the life of your processor. I really think my overclock is being limited because I can not control my SOC voltage with this board. Also my board seems to offset my voltage under load, while in bios I have it set to 1.425v, CPUZ never records it going higher than 1.392v. I still think i am going to switch to the 8700k and sell my board/1700x/AIO Cooler as a combo. The new board and 8700k are almost the same price I paid for my combo (got ryzen back in July) and will only be losing the fvf that ebay charges. So its a win win and i lose almost no money while gaining 10-20fps in almost every title I regularly play.
I have been on this and other forums for five years and never ever seen a post of someone running Prime95 for days. Many guys on here are competitive benchers and even they only run Prime95 for a couple hours. The Stilt included.
 
#14 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by SavantStrike View Post

I run prime for 24 hours if temps allow for it. If temps don't I usually upgrade my cooling first.
I would never, ever run Prime95 unattended while I was sleeping or whatever. There is way too much stress on components for an extended period of time.
 
  • Rep+
Reactions: Fear of Oneself
#15 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisjames61 View Post

I would never, ever run Prime95 unattended while I was sleeping or whatever. There is way too much stress on components for an extended period of time.
Well I obviously make sure everything is okay before I walk away. If thermals are under control (VRM's, GPU, PSU, CPU, and RAM) they usually don't rise beyond an hour.

I either do folding or mining, so any system I build for myself should be able to handle a 24 hour torture test or I've pushed it too far. For systems where that isn't the design I still do at least a few hours. I don't like to run any silicon over 70C, so my results may vary from others.
 
#16 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisjames61 View Post

I would never, ever run Prime95 unattended while I was sleeping or whatever. There is way too much stress on components for an extended period of time.
What about people running prime95 to find prime numbers? Theyd be running it for yonks.
 
#17 ·
When I OC'd my 2500K years back, With Prime95 I had to pass all the FFT's or whatever to send my submission in to whatever club it was on here. To do that, I'm sure it took more than 24 hours. I think it was thirty odd hours. 2 hour stress tests are just quick tests, running select FFT's (these are the most troublesome FFT's which differ depending on which CPU you have) to get an idea of stability. Once you pass these 2 hour select FFT tests for a couple hours, then you should go for the longer tests and pass the whole lot to make sure it's all stable. At least that's how I remember it being done, but it's been a while since I've overclocked anything.

@vmatt1203 - Sorry to hear about your bad luck here. I had an Asrock motherboard that was totally crap with overclocking my 2500K. It wouldn't let me do anything really, even though it was a board designed for OC'ing. It was just a dud. I ended up getting an Asus board, and OC'd the hell out of that thing! Most people would've just assumed the CPU was the problem, but I somehow knew it was the board at the time (I forget how). Your board could be the problem here. If you have a dual BIOS, maybe you could try the other one and see how it goes.

I'm getting a 1700 myself very soon so I hope I have good luck with it, should I decide to OC it any point. Anyway - Good luck
thumb.gif
 
#18 ·
Prime95 is also not the end all tell all of stability benchmarks. There are some specific games that really bring out instability even though i've passed 2-3hour tests in prime95, aida64, realbench, etc. Overwatch always seemed to bring out my CPU OC instability for some reason.

Also, sorry about your Ryzen CPU. Its pretty well known that Ryzen doesn't OC very well, and it has the single threaded performance of ivy bridge. Sounds like an 8700k would have been exactly what your looking for. Hindsight 20/20
 
#19 ·
Sorry to hear about your bad luck with Ryzen, but honestly I've seen tons of these posts and complaints which is exactly why I'm glad I didn't buy into the hype. Ryzen isn't the BEST gaming CPU and is outperformed by an older i5 in some games. RAM compatibility is a known issue, and getting rated speeds is an even larger issue it seems. That alone is enough to turn me off. Why would you buy a platform that can't run rated ram speeds?

My 8700K was set to 5.0Ghz day one, 1.265v, zero AVX offset, and 3200Mhz CL16 default XMP profile and has been chugging along perfectly with zero crashes since.
 
#20 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon2016 View Post

Sorry to hear about your bad luck with Ryzen, but honestly I've seen tons of these posts and complaints which is exactly why I'm glad I didn't buy into the hype. Ryzen isn't the BEST gaming CPU and is outperformed by an older i5 in some games. RAM compatibility is a known issue, and getting rated speeds is an even larger issue it seems. That alone is enough to turn me off. Why would you buy a platform that can't run rated ram speeds?

My 8700K was set to 5.0Ghz day one, 1.265v, zero AVX offset, and 3200Mhz CL16 default XMP profile and has been chugging along perfectly with zero crashes since.
My 3200 Cl 14 FlareX are running at rated speed. Not much money to upgrade from a Phenom system to Ryzen cause i just have to visit Egypt a second. Travel is my first love.
biggrin.gif
 
#21 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by spinFX View Post

What about people running prime95 to find prime numbers? Theyd be running it for yonks.
Most distributed computing users are probably running it without highly overvolted and overclocked cpu's. The intended use of the software is finding prime numbers. A byproduct of that is that it is ideal for stress testing. Testing for anything over a few hours is just asking for trouble if you are running your computer way out of spec as many of us do here. Stock? I would say yeah. Run it till the cows come home.
 
#22 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisjames61 View Post

I would never, ever run Prime95 unattended while I was sleeping or whatever. There is way too much stress on components for an extended period of time.
My thoughts exactly
Quote:
Originally Posted by IMI4tth3w View Post

Prime95 is also not the end all tell all of stability benchmarks. There are some specific games that really bring out instability even though i've passed 2-3hour tests in prime95, aida64, realbench, etc. Overwatch always seemed to bring out my CPU OC instability for some reason.

Also, sorry about your Ryzen CPU. Its pretty well known that Ryzen doesn't OC very well, and it has the single threaded performance of ivy bridge. Sounds like an 8700k would have been exactly what your looking for. Hindsight 20/20
This is true. In my years I have found that real world testing is far better at finding a stable OC than a stress test. I have had 6 hour prime stable machines that blue screened 20 minutes into GTA 4.

Back to OP, you're not very clear on what your problem is. Furthermore, I'd be willing to bet that your machine was never stable, not that it suddenly 'became' unstable as you have described. The issues you have pointed out could be caused my many things. Instead of speculating at what clocks are stable at a given voltage, you're much better off doing the following:

  • Reset BIOS to factory default settings
  • Ensure you have the latest BIOS installed from your motherboard vender
  • Completely format and reinstall your operating system
At this point, there are so many things going on with your system, that it's hard to tell where your stability issues arise. We need a baseline to work with here. I think stock clocks and a fresh install are the way to go. Who knows, maybe all your Prime95 messed up one of your DIMMs, Let's start from the basics and go from there. Throwing a tantrum and buying all new hardware seems silly.

On another note, if you use this computer to earn a living (as it sounds like you do) for the love of all things holy, do not overclock/operate outside of factory settings. That's just irresponsible.
 
  • Rep+
Reactions: Cpt Phasma
#23 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fear of Oneself View Post

My thoughts exactly
This is true. In my years I have found that real world testing is far better at finding a stable OC than a stress test. I have had 6 hour prime stable machines that blue screened 20 minutes into GTA 4.
6 hour prime stable isn't even a full test.

That's like cleaning one cylinder and wondering why your still misfiring when taking it to the highway. Then claiming the highway is a better stress test.
 
#24 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReciever View Post

6 hour prime stable isn't even a full test.

That's like cleaning one cylinder and wondering why your still misfiring when taking it to the highway. Then claiming the highway is a better stress test.
That was my point

EDIT: I read your post again. Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me?
 
#25 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReciever View Post

6 hour prime stable isn't even a full test.

That's like cleaning one cylinder and wondering why your still misfiring when taking it to the highway. Then claiming the highway is a better stress test.
I stopped commenting because I saw this thread was going off topic a bit and didn't want to contribute to that. But yeh, I'm saying the same thing as you! People keep saying they've done X amount of hours Prime stable, yet it crashes in games or whatever, so that means Prime95 isn't a great stability test. Yet what they seem to be missing is that you have to run Prime95 for more than an entire day to pass all of the tests, which is what you're supposed to do to check for stability. If you can pass all that, it's very unlikely you'll crash anywhere else. Different FFT's are more troublesome for different CPU's. If you just run Prime95 for X amount of hours, you might not have even done the most troublesome FFT's for your CPU during this time, and you definitely won't have passed all of them. And all you need to do for these long tests is make sure temps are good. It's not like computers get tired and need a lunch break and a nap, just keep temps under control!
 
#26 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReciever View Post

6 hour prime stable isn't even a full test.

That's like cleaning one cylinder and wondering why your still misfiring when taking it to the highway. Then claiming the highway is a better stress test.
The issue is that really tough stress tests also can cause damage while testing your CPU. PPL don't talk about it much, but it's true.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top