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Recommend a Linux distribution for an old 2GB dual core 64bit machine - Page 3

post #21 of 78
ping JackCY _ You have made so many false and opinionated remarks about Linux now that I am beginning to doubt your sincerity at doing anything but reinforcing your choice to use Windows and vilify Linux. Stolen Unix? No nvidia drivers in 2007? Eclipse and Netbeans crashing? and much much more but the worst offense of all shows that either you don't know what you're talking about or you do and you choose to state obviously bad comparisons.

I'm talking about resource usage. Firstly, in 2017 you are actually concerned about RAM measured in MegaBytes? rolleyes.gif More importantly if you know anything about even just Windows, you must know that the way Windows reports RAM usage is not as complete and honest as the way Linux reports RAM usage and I'm not even talking about unreported :just in case" preloading .

In Windows you cannot go by what is reported with Taskmanager. You simply must use perfmon or Resource Monitor and THEN. you have to factor in the convoluted manner in which MS employs all virtual memory, even committed memory, and including page file which MS recommends at a minimum be 3 times the amount of RAM or 4GB whichever is larger. Since 16GB is common in 2017, that's 48 GigaBytes of page file. My entire OpSys isn't that big.

For a real world usage anecdote I have an ancient Sony Laptop with a PII 533 MHz CPU and 512MB ram that runs Slackware 13.37 with a KDE 3.5 GUI Desktop. Oh and BTW it has a 500 MB swap file. In truth it takes forever to boot but once it is up it is remarkably and usably fast, even today.. Incidentally while that version, 13.37 , came out in 2011, it was an upgrade from the previous install of version 12.0 which I installed in 2007 and BTW is still supported.and ran great but I suppose you think I'd have been better off with Windows Vista in 2007, eh?

Look... if you like and prefer Windows with all it's intrusive and deceptive mannerisms that's your choice and that's fine. However there is a reason Linux supports more platforms and owns the smartphone and supercomputer markets so it is a waste of your time to come into this "House of Linux" and defecate on the living room carpet. There is also a reason that Linux on the Desktop is a paltry few percent compared to Windows ~90 %. The majority of Desktop PC users don't want to know nuts and bolts. They don't need that level of control or security.. They want convenience and are willing to pay someone else to provide some semblance of that and that is a perfectly valid choice, for Users. Phones, Servers, SuperComputers and Admins prefer Linux. Deal with it.
Edited by enorbet2 - 12/13/17 at 7:54pm
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post #22 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCY View Post

If I do an HDD install will it stop using so much RAM? Can it do a classic HDD install as that is what will be done with any of the distros in the end, it's just easier to test them live.

I'm not sure, I've never run Puppy but one of the advantages to Puppy is the speed because everything is on the RAMDisk making it very fast. I'm sure someone here more familiar with Puppy can answer that for you.
post #23 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCY View Post

...In 10 years, maybe, if games swap to Linux in a 50:50 way at least then the user base will move for sure as long as the Linux drivers get better, which has taken both NV and AMD decades and AMD is still not there and from seeing how NV does compared to AMD in benchmarks, they have a long way to go as well. If you know benches of new DX11/12/Vulkan games Win vs Linux on recent drivers and hardware share them I'm curious and have been asking for ages but all Linux sites just seem to test Linux drivers vs other Linux drivers and forget to compare vs Windows the #1 competitor when it comes to drivers...
I hope so and I hope it happens sooner than that. As Vulkan gets more mature, in a few years devs will have no excuse. It's too bad statistics seem unavailable regarding how many games don't work on Linux that include ported or run in Wine etc. I'd love to see comparative benches as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCY View Post

...Next is the divided window manager/GUI and the need for apps to either be compiled to install them or have a package in this or that distro, where as with Windows I can download an app and it will work on Win95 and Win10 the same if it's a 32bit, or later Win when 64bit. With Linux one has to be lucky to find the app for the specific Linux distro, in the package mess, with the specific GUI being supported. Sure variety is nice but a unified interface as well where an app would work on any Linux distro with ANY GUI even text mode could hell be done for the minimal machines. But that's just not in the cards for Linux to get more unified any time soon...
I'm not sure what you're doing. Package managers can be painless. eg: Pamac (sp?) makes it way easier to download, install, and update things than Windows. Find what you want, click apply, done. No CLI needed. Mint's package manager was much the same IIRC. A unified GUI is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure why that would be strictly necessary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCY View Post

...Linux super stable and awesome? Where does that come from? I'm not seeing it first hand. Certainly not as trouble free as Windows can be, if everything is just right, then yes Linux is fine, but, something a little in a way that it doesn't work with well, done, no warnings, no messages, no attempts to recover, just locks up and user interaction dies. Installed these lock ups should go more or less away and on a machine with plenty RAM I'm sure others think I'm nuts, but try a low RAM machine, with live distros that try to show you the OS in it's greatness live without installing and you will see just how bad it can get.
Update done: failed to commit transaction, invalid or corrupted package: expecting package name here? me too, there is none, Linux....
I've installed multiple distros on 2 similar machines with ~2gb RAM with no significant issues (except KDE and legacy Nvidia). Maybe I was just lucky, or perhaps the live version is causing the grief.

You're trying to install Manjaro XFCE? Antergos XFCE is an alternative, though it's really just a beta GUI installer for Arch, I enjoy it. Slack or Mint etc., as mentioned, might make more sense for what you're trying to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

I just started Puppy in a VM and it's using 250MB RAM. As has been said, the more you install, the more RAM it takes up. If you want another really light distro try Mint XFCE. It's really light weight as XFCE isn't demanding in any way. The one problem with XFCE is that it's ugly (this is entirely subjective). Cinnamon is beautiful, Mate is nice too but XFCE is just horrid but it works and I use it on my server because I don't want to constantly stare at the command line, even though I actually rarely use the GUI and mostly use command line.
Yep XFCE is absolutely, jarringly hideous, but can be customized to look beautiful. Just saying. tongue.gif
I agree, Cinnamon looks exponentially better out of the box.
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post #24 of 78
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post

ping JackCY _ You have made so many false and opinionated remarks about Linux now that I am beginning to doubt your sincerity at doing anything but reinforcing your choice to use Windows and vilify Linux. Stolen Unix? No nvidia drivers in 2007? Eclipse and Netbeans crashing? and much much more but the worst offense of all shows that either you don't know what you're talking about or you do and you choose to state obviously bad comparisons.

I'm talking about resource usage. Firstly, in 2017 you are actually concerned about RAM measured in MegaBytes? rolleyes.gif More importantly if you know anything about even just Windows, you must know that the way Windows reports RAM usage is not as complete and honest as the way Linux reports RAM usage and I'm not even talking about unreported :just in case" preloading .

In Windows you cannot go by what is reported with Taskmanager. You simply must use perfmon or Resource Monitor and THEN. you have to factor in the convoluted manner in which MS employs all virtual memory, even committed memory, and including page file which MS recommends at a minimum be 3 times the amount of RAM or 4GB whichever is larger. Since 16GB is common in 2017, that's 48 GigaBytes of page file. My entire OpSys isn't that big.

For a real world usage anecdote I have an ancient Sony Laptop with a PII 533 MHz CPU and 512MB ram that runs Slackware 13.37 with a KDE 3.5 GUI Desktop. Oh and BTW it has a 500 MB swap file. In truth it takes forever to boot but once it is up it is remarkably and usably fast, even today.. Incidentally while that version, 13.37 , came out in 2011, it was an upgrade from the previous install of version 12.0 which I installed in 2007 and BTW is still supported.and ran great but I suppose you think I'd have been better off with Windows Vista in 2007, eh?

Look... if you like and prefer Windows with all it's intrusive and deceptive mannerisms that's your choice and that's fine. However there is a reason Linux supports more platforms and owns the smartphone and supercomputer markets so it is a waste of your time to come into this "House of Linux" and defecate on the living room carpet. There is also a reason that Linux on the Desktop is a paltry few percent compared to Windows ~90 %. The majority of Desktop PC users don't want to know nuts and bolts. They don't need that level of control or security.. They want convenience and are willing to pay someone else to provide some semblance of that and that is a perfectly valid choice, for Users. Phones, Servers, SuperComputers and Admins prefer Linux. Deal with it.
On a 2GB machine yes I am concerned about MB of RAM used.
I never used Vista or Win7 on my machine, thanks no didn't want that bloat.

Good luck with Linux to you. I will move to something else if something else is made and better supported or Windows evolves to being a mix of two anyway. I don't care what the name is or who makes it, only what I get for the money as long as it supports what I need it to support while being stable without issues, lock ups or major slowdowns.
I use HWiNFO for monitoring on Windows, don't care what task manager shows and it's not off by a lot anyway. Preloading is a common thing to do not just on modern Windows. Look at Android.

Yes a simple desktop OS should fit within 2GB RAM no problem, without swap, page file on other storage. If it can't update itself without eating more than 2GB RAM, then there is something wrong with that OS or how it's made. The only thing having access to slow HDD storage will do is make it crawl while it bloats it's swap and page files.

Some distros work fine, some simply don't. Always been that way, still is as I test them and it will be as long as so many distros exist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestraw0039 View Post

I'm not sure, I've never run Puppy but one of the advantages to Puppy is the speed because everything is on the RAMDisk making it very fast. I'm sure someone here more familiar with Puppy can answer that for you.
I will skip puppy most likely.
Mint and Manjaro, at best probably with XFCE looks most promising to be usable for this target machine and user. I'm downloading some older bigger distros as well although I will skip Debian and Gentoo etc. Just getting OpenSUSE, already have Ubuntu and getting Xubuntu. See which of these can be run or at least installed with fast GUI, XFCE or similar. The RAM usage of Mint can be a killer, sure with swap file it will run, but come on 2GB and it can't update GPU driver and CPU microcode without running out of RAM? That is nuts and something is borked with it. Other than the RAM it seems fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

While there are many distro's they can be categorised as deb (Debian) or RPM (Red Hat) based. Before I started learning how to use Linux on my server I was of the same opinion, that there are too many distro's but I quickly learned that these are basically the two categories under which they fall. Even Slackware based distro's can install RPM so there is a lot of standardisation now.

I just started Puppy in a VM and it's using 250MB RAM. As has been said, the more you install, the more RAM it takes up. If you want another really light distro try Mint XFCE. It's really light weight as XFCE isn't demanding in any way. The one problem with XFCE is that it's ugly (this is entirely subjective). Cinnamon is beautiful, Mate is nice too but XFCE is just horrid but it works and I use it on my server because I don't want to constantly stare at the command line, even though I actually rarely use the GUI and mostly use command line.

When it comes to servers the GUI is actually a hindrance as everything can be done quicker and more effectively with command line. Even Windows Servers give you the option to install CLI only as server management through point and clicking is just awful compared with a CLI. Desktop use is entirely different as desktops have different requirements but even in the days of DOS we used CLI only and it worked.

If you want a distro that is super easy to manage try OpenSUSE. You can choose between several different GUI's and you can even install a minimal X GUI that takes up even less resources than Puppy. It's not pretty but YAST is so sexy to use it's incredible. The reason I use Mint (Ubuntu/Debian based) is because I'm used to it and Mint (Ubuntu LTS) support their distro's for 5, whereas OpenSUSE only support their projects for 18 months at a time, due to changes being tested for SUSE itself. Linus himself runs OpenSUSE at home.

Manjaro is a rolling release akin to Win Spy so every year you will get a fully updated version, which isn't useful to me but many love it.
Yeah it's all based on same origins.
Mint XFCE I would try but no download for it, seems dead/removed. Only Cinnamon and Mate available. Not sure any of these can be switched over to XFCE during install. For me it's a GUI and they all come with various themes and customizations, speed and RAM is what matters to me, all else can be tweaked.
I don't mind CLI but GUIs are way faster for settings things up unless you all you do is run premade batches to make the config for you in that case making those batches and searching what each option does has to be counted into the time spent configuring and then CLI is slower, not that poorly made GUIs are fast. wink.gif Works, just not for a desktop much and absolutely not for average users.

OpenSUSE downloaded. Exactly, an older stable distro, options to select GUI etc. much like Debian and Gentoo and other bigger distros should have.
I would much rather have weekly automatically updated OS than once a year "user gets confused with what is it some update popped up, or has been done and now the whole thing is borked, where are my files, or no update at all done automatically and it sits outdated for 5 years with vulnerabilities unpatched". So do the LTS versions of Ubuntu etc. update automatically to stay secure and up to date applications wise at least reasonably? Or will it run for 5 years the same Firefox and after 1 year it will not be compatible with this or that on web for example? What about the nonLTS Ubuntus?
I'm not really worried or bothered if the machine gets no updates just curious as to how it works for long term use for many years, with Windows it's a non issue, constantly updated automatically and apps have their own auto updates or is left to user to do when they want to.

Will try some more tomorrow, gotta do other stuff too.

Almost Heathen: yeah live version isn't helping as some distros cannot fit into 2GB RAM and the USB is snail, their space on it sometimes configured by the distros too small for them to use and having a snail HDD after install won't magically resolve low RAM amount issues. So live is sufficient test for me to see if it can fit into 2GB RAM or not.
I don't know what thesavage is about if he's angry at Windows or Linux. I don't care what's the name, I just have some needs for this machine which are vastly different from my own personal needs and as such I'm exploring options, particularly Linux options, I've installed Win10 on it for now only to test the machine works fine and to see if Win10 will work on it at all since the hardware doesn't officially support Win10 but it seems to work fine, slowish because RAM and HDD but fine.

In the end what is the difference for user between various GUIs? Visual appearance, structure of menus etc. and of course speed and resource usage. I bet most GUIs could be custom reconfigured to look and feel the very same or very close at least. Yes some are more than just a GUI and may come with other apps and such which is not something I need for this machine.

I've used Linux before even with very minimal or no GUI, I think it was one of custom Gentoo installs I tried, it ran fast, that's for sure. Basic look but fast.

I find the Manjaro XFCE and Mint Cinnamon quite similar from a user point of view.
Edited by JackCY - 12/13/17 at 9:32pm
post #25 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCY View Post

Yeah it's all based on same origins.
Mint XFCE I would try but no download for it, seems dead/removed. Only Cinnamon and Mate available. Not sure any of these can be switched over to XFCE during install. For me it's a GUI and they all come with various themes and customizations, speed and RAM is what matters to me, all else can be tweaked.
I don't mind CLI but GUIs are way faster for settings things up unless you all you do is run premade batches to make the config for you in that case making those batches and searching what each option does has to be counted into the time spent configuring and then CLI is slower, not that poorly made GUIs are fast. wink.gif Works, just not for a desktop much and absolutely not for average users.

OpenSUSE downloaded. Exactly, an older stable distro, options to select GUI etc. much like Debian and Gentoo and other bigger distros should have.
I would much rather have weekly automatically updated OS than once a year "user gets confused with what is it some update popped up, or has been done and now the whole thing is borked, where are my files, or no update at all done automatically and it sits outdated for 5 years with vulnerabilities unpatched". So do the LTS versions of Ubuntu etc. update automatically to stay secure and up to date applications wise at least reasonably? Or will it run for 5 years the same Firefox and after 1 year it will not be compatible with this or that on web for example? What about the nonLTS Ubuntus?
I'm not really worried or bothered if the machine gets no updates just curious as to how it works for long term use for many years, with Windows it's a non issue, constantly updated automatically and apps have their own auto updates or is left to user to do when they want to.

Will try some more tomorrow, gotta do other stuff too.

Almost Heathen: yeah live version isn't helping as some distros cannot fit into 2GB RAM and the USB is snail, their space on it sometimes configured by the distros too small for them to use and having a snail HDD after install won't magically resolve low RAM amount issues. So live is sufficient test for me to see if it can fit into 2GB RAM or not.
I don't know what thesavage is about if he's angry at Windows or Linux. I don't care what's the name, I just have some needs for this machine which are vastly different from my own personal needs and as such I'm exploring options, particularly Linux options, I've installed Win10 on it for now only to test the machine works fine and to see if Win10 will work on it at all since the hardware doesn't officially support Win10 but it seems to work fine, slowish because RAM and HDD but fine.

In the end what is the difference for user between various GUIs? Visual appearance, structure of menus etc. and of course speed and resource usage. I bet most GUIs could be custom reconfigured to look and feel the very same or very close at least. Yes some are more than just a GUI and may come with other apps and such which is not something I need for this machine.

I've used Linux before even with very minimal or no GUI, I think it was one of custom Gentoo installs I tried, it ran fast, that's for sure. Basic look but fast.

I find the Manjaro XFCE and Mint Cinnamon quite similar from a user point of view.

Why do you care about RAM use? RAM is there to be used, any RAM not used is wasted RAM.

 

Mint 18.3 is brand new so there is no XFCE yet but here is 18.2:

https://linuxmint.com/release.php?id=29

 

You can install XFCE and then 'upgrade' to 18.3 later. In fact you don't need to upgrade at all, you can even stick with 18.1 if you like as they are all based on Ubuntu 16.04 LTS anyway.

 

I assume you don't like using any OS if you like to update the OS every week as even Win Spy doesn't do that.

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post #26 of 78
Free, secure or easy to use. Pick any two, you can't have all three.

Free and secure: Research thoroughly and put together your own version from scratch.
Secure and easy to use: Buy a Chromebook.
Easy to use and free: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS. Use LTS instead of the latest version because it gets 5 years of updates instead of 9 months. However it is graphically heavy and you would need something faster than the recycled rig described. So I'd recommend something other than standard Ubuntu.

Recommendation: Lubuntu 16.04 LTS desktop. Lightweight, reasonably easy to use and it gets 3 years of updates.
Since you are targeting a user that isn't very computer-literate, they will probably not be running any content-blocking addons.
So due to bloated websites you will need to upgrade to at least 4GB of ram to use the Internet reasonably.

In 2017 2GB is not enough. Get at least 4GB! It does not matter if the OS uses 300MB of RAM when loading popular websites without blocking anything requires 3GB or more.
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post #27 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCY View Post

Almost Heathen: yeah live version isn't helping as some distros cannot fit into 2GB RAM and the USB is snail, their space on it sometimes configured by the distros too small for them to use and having a snail HDD after install won't magically resolve low RAM amount issues. So live is sufficient test for me to see if it can fit into 2GB RAM or not.
I don't know what thesavage is about if he's angry at Windows or Linux. I don't care what's the name, I just have some needs for this machine which are vastly different from my own personal needs and as such I'm exploring options, particularly Linux options, I've installed Win10 on it for now only to test the machine works fine and to see if Win10 will work on it at all since the hardware doesn't officially support Win10 but it seems to work fine, slowish because RAM and HDD but fine.

In the end what is the difference for user between various GUIs? Visual appearance, structure of menus etc. and of course speed and resource usage. I bet most GUIs could be custom reconfigured to look and feel the very same or very close at least. Yes some are more than just a GUI and may come with other apps and such which is not something I need for this machine.

I've used Linux before even with very minimal or no GUI, I think it was one of custom Gentoo installs I tried, it ran fast, that's for sure. Basic look but fast.

I find the Manjaro XFCE and Mint Cinnamon quite similar from a user point of view.
Pretty much. They often have different goals, different customization options and baked in features, resource useage, different levels of stability/polish, and geared towards different users, but there's a lot of similarity for sure.

Absolutely. Whether on Cinnamon, KDE, LXQT, or XFCE, I generally made my desktop look very similar; maybe even impossible to tell the difference visually at a glance. If you want lighter RAM use, I believe LXDE will help a bit, but you did try Lubuntu. I'm not sure if the issues you had are related to Ubuntu or LXDE. Maybe worth trying Manjaro LXDE if it's easy enough, LXQT is light too but more glitchy.

I've found this site quite accurate: XFCE vs LXDE.
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post #28 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltpdttcdft View Post

Free, secure or easy to use. Pick any two, you can't have all three.

Free and secure: Research thoroughly and put together your own version from scratch.
Secure and easy to use: Buy a Chromebook.
Easy to use and free: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS. Use LTS instead of the latest version because it gets 5 years of updates instead of 9 months. However it is graphically heavy and you would need something faster than the recycled rig described. So I'd recommend something other than standard Ubuntu.

Recommendation: Lubuntu 16.04 LTS desktop. Lightweight, reasonably easy to use and it gets 3 years of updates.
Since you are targeting a user that isn't very computer-literate, they will probably not be running any content-blocking addons.
So due to bloated websites you will need to upgrade to at least 4GB of ram to use the Internet reasonably.

In 2017 2GB is not enough. Get at least 4GB! It does not matter if the OS uses 300MB of RAM when loading popular websites without blocking anything requires 3GB or more.

I run an AIO on a mix of Win 7 and Mint Cinnamon on a Persistent USB and it works just fine. The problem is not the distro itself as office and watching or listening to media doesn't consume a lot of RAM, but websites and games.

 

With a Chromebook you can safely assume you are being spied upon by the NSA, thanks to Google. Also ChromeOS isn't a full OS, it relies heavily on Googles own cloud based programs. It can't in any way compete with a proper Linux distro.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almost Heathen View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCY View Post

Almost Heathen: yeah live version isn't helping as some distros cannot fit into 2GB RAM and the USB is snail, their space on it sometimes configured by the distros too small for them to use and having a snail HDD after install won't magically resolve low RAM amount issues. So live is sufficient test for me to see if it can fit into 2GB RAM or not.
I don't know what thesavage is about if he's angry at Windows or Linux. I don't care what's the name, I just have some needs for this machine which are vastly different from my own personal needs and as such I'm exploring options, particularly Linux options, I've installed Win10 on it for now only to test the machine works fine and to see if Win10 will work on it at all since the hardware doesn't officially support Win10 but it seems to work fine, slowish because RAM and HDD but fine.

In the end what is the difference for user between various GUIs? Visual appearance, structure of menus etc. and of course speed and resource usage. I bet most GUIs could be custom reconfigured to look and feel the very same or very close at least. Yes some are more than just a GUI and may come with other apps and such which is not something I need for this machine.

I've used Linux before even with very minimal or no GUI, I think it was one of custom Gentoo installs I tried, it ran fast, that's for sure. Basic look but fast.

I find the Manjaro XFCE and Mint Cinnamon quite similar from a user point of view.
Pretty much. They often have different goals, different customization options and baked in features, resource useage, different levels of stability/polish, and geared towards different users, but there's a lot of similarity for sure.

Absolutely. Whether on Cinnamon, KDE, LXQT, or XFCE, I generally made my desktop look very similar; maybe even impossible to tell the difference visually at a glance. If you want lighter RAM use, I believe LXDE will help a bit, but you did try Lubuntu. I'm not sure if the issues you had are related to Ubuntu or LXDE. Maybe worth trying Manjaro LXDE if it's easy enough, LXQT is light too but more glitchy.

I've found this site quite accurate: XFCE vs LXDE.

Great link. Personally I think Mint's implementation of Cinnamon is the best. It's just beautiful but it can be modified to look absolutely stunning, putting anything Windows could do to shame. I am too lazy for it but there are some beautiful desktops around.


Edited by Liranan - 12/14/17 at 4:42am
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post #29 of 78
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

Why do you care about RAM use? RAM is there to be used, any RAM not used is wasted RAM.

Mint 18.3 is brand new so there is no XFCE yet but here is 18.2:
https://linuxmint.com/release.php?id=29

You can install XFCE and then 'upgrade' to 18.3 later. In fact you don't need to upgrade at all, you can even stick with 18.1 if you like as they are all based on Ubuntu 16.04 LTS anyway.

I assume you don't like using any OS if you like to update the OS every week as even Win Spy doesn't do that.
I don't mind if all RAM is used as long as it is used smart, I don't mind if it preloads everything it can into RAM and then purges stuff out when it needs space for something else. But most OSes don't do that, they just keep on piling and piling eating more and then running from a harddrive.
As much as Vista and Win7 were memory hungry behemoths, M$ actually made an effort with Win8 and Win10 to reduce memory footprint a lot. I used to use a laptop that had mostly 1.5 and later 2.0GB RAM WinXP would run fine but Win7 would tank the machine unusable. And of course basic custom install Linuxes ran fine too RAM wise. With Win10 I'm actually surprised the machine isn't crawling and all the drivers were found automatically as there is no way for me to download any official drivers for Win10. Sure Win10 isn't as light as WinXP was I think but it's damn close.

Thanks Mint XFCE downloaded now smile.gif
I don't mind if it's older as long as it's not too old.

Win10 updates daily for some applications, some stuff weekly, some monthly, some every half a year, it depends on the part/type. And it can be all customized (Pro version, group policy), of course by default it's set to annoy the user, hence everyone hates it when it restarts their machine under their hands and such.
I like any OS to stay out of my way and not need a "child care".
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltpdttcdft View Post

Free, secure or easy to use. Pick any two, you can't have all three.

Free and secure: Research thoroughly and put together your own version from scratch.
Secure and easy to use: Buy a Chromebook.
Easy to use and free: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS. Use LTS instead of the latest version because it gets 5 years of updates instead of 9 months. However it is graphically heavy and you would need something faster than the recycled rig described. So I'd recommend something other than standard Ubuntu.

Recommendation: Lubuntu 16.04 LTS desktop. Lightweight, reasonably easy to use and it gets 3 years of updates.
Since you are targeting a user that isn't very computer-literate, they will probably not be running any content-blocking addons.
So due to bloated websites you will need to upgrade to at least 4GB of ram to use the Internet reasonably.

In 2017 2GB is not enough. Get at least 4GB! It does not matter if the OS uses 300MB of RAM when loading popular websites without blocking anything requires 3GB or more.
I looked at Chrome OS but it seems a pain to install that one at all on a machine, some forks exist otherwise one has to buy a whole machine with it.
No upgraded needed and I very much doubt the user runs 10+ tabs. I'm testing with 1 YouTube tab playing a video, nothing fancy.
Don't have extra RAM to swap or add, the one in machine is dual sided dual channel two sticks, one would need either 2x2GB DS/SS or 4x2GB SS sticks. It can't install more than 4 single sided sticks.

My cheap china phone with 3GB RAM is it, runs websites just fine and multiple of them. My Firefox with 16 windows and hundreds of tabs uses: around 1700MB.
And I don't know what website needs so much RAM, you probably have a memory leak or playing a game inside browser. Sure they can be found but it's not usual.
Sure if the user had an expensive smartphone, I would just say, hey connect it to your TV and browse the web there wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Almost Heathen View Post

Pretty much. They often have different goals, different customization options and baked in features, resource useage, different levels of stability/polish, and geared towards different users, but there's a lot of similarity for sure.

Absolutely. Whether on Cinnamon, KDE, LXQT, or XFCE, I generally made my desktop look very similar; maybe even impossible to tell the difference visually at a glance. If you want lighter RAM use, I believe LXDE will help a bit, but you did try Lubuntu. I'm not sure if the issues you had are related to Ubuntu or LXDE. Maybe worth trying Manjaro LXDE if it's easy enough, LXQT is light too but more glitchy.

I've found this site quite accurate: XFCE vs LXDE.

The start menu on Lubuntu wasn't something very user friendly, it looked dated. LXDE is fine otherwise. LXQT seems new I couldn't find it as an option for distros, can be installed afterward usually, too bleeding edge for the needs.
I will try other Manjaro options for the heck of it, I have the architect here as well so in the end I can choose what to install.
post #30 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCY View Post

...The start menu on Lubuntu wasn't something very user friendly, it looked dated. LXDE is fine otherwise. LXQT seems new I couldn't find it as an option for distros, can be installed afterward usually, too bleeding edge for the needs.
I will try other Manjaro options for the heck of it, I have the architect here as well so in the end I can choose what to install...
The default panel menus for XFCE and LXDE are pretty terrible, yes.

whisker menu is far better IMO. It's made for XFCE but look like it's maybe possible to install on LXDE too if there's no alternative (Link). Hope that helps.

Whisker menu Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

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