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help upgrading from WMO

2K views 19 replies 8 participants last post by  benllok 
#1 ·
hey could I have a hand please. so far ive deduced that the top 3 mice are as follows

g403 4ms
death adder elite 8ms
new zowies 8ms

is this a pretty good read of the market? I understand overclocking my WMO to 8khz will make it 11ms

I really want to upgrade from wmo as I'm worried the ms input time is holding me back in games particular 1v1 arena in counterstrike and perhaps some shots in pubg others just seem faster to me.

should I look into a 1-2ms mouse from a budget brand like dreammachines.io/

should I focus on shape and get a zowie or some thing? or is the upgrade from 11ms to 8ms so small its not worth it and should just stick to WMO and do tape trick on it to get zowie like feel?

are there any good super fast mouse basically I'm asking. bloody? etc I see some ranking really fast on the click test but is that actually worth it. from my understanding the click test also would show the lag on movement so a zowie for instance would move with 8ms of lag? is that correct?

I got pretty extreme on input speed lately because I'm using a really good CRT a 109B6 from Philips (have 3x in good condition) so I'm going to be playing with them for years to come. I got a keyboard with 0.2ms input speed Bloody Q700 and I figure I should have a mouse to match now or is this foolish.

please help my WMO is my love but I would like to upgrade I just don't know if any of thous super fast mice on the click test are any good.

thanks what have other WMO users done?

ps I also understand Ninox is releasing a WMO replacement mouse in may next year should I just wait for that what options do I have in the meantime..

thankyou very much for understanding and finishing my rant

all the best thankyou
 
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#2 ·
If you play well with your wmo, i would just keep using it. Don't focus too much on the click latency. Unless your wmo is about to break, you are not satisfied with it anymore or you have issues with it, there is no need to change.

There is so much more to a good mouse than click latency (most modern gaming grade mice have low click latency anyways).

So if you get a mouse with a click latency of 5ms but the buttons have a lot of pretravel and are harder to press, then you lose time as well (probably much more than 11ms that the wmo offers if overclocked to at least 500hz). There are some really low latency mice out there, that i wouldn't touch for gaming. So you shouldn't focus too much on that aspect. The wmo is a great mouse.

If you can't ignore the voice in your head and want something new for the peace of mind, check out this list. Pick a few that you find interesting shapewise and ask for feedback on specific models.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1607990/click-latencies-compiled
 
#3 ·
thanks I sorta thought that might be the case. its just hmmm. I am happy with my mouse its just 11ms seems like alot compared do these 1-4ms mice.

and I'm also shy of using the WMO because all the CSGO players have abandoned it on the spreadsheet there's only one guy using a wmo style mouse but its a IE3.0... I know that might seem like a dumb reason to upgrade but those guys do sorta know what's going on somewhat if not a little bias via sponsorship.
 
#4 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by he4th View Post

thanks I sorta thought that might be the case. its just hmmm. I am happy with my mouse its just 11ms seems like alot compared do these 1-4ms mice.

and I'm also shy of using the WMO because all the CSGO players have abandoned it on the spreadsheet there's only one guy using a wmo style mouse but its a IE3.0... I know that might seem like a dumb reason to upgrade but those guys do sorta know what's going on somewhat if not a little bias via sponsorship.
As someone who has been signed for competitive vidya games (I'm sure most of the other people in these forums that have also played fps stuff at a pro-level will agree with me), ~90% of pros don't know much about mice. There are definitely exceptions, but you shouldn't base your decision on what the general consensus of the "pros" is. I agree with James N here. I could never see myself using a WMO because of the malfunction speed (among other things), but the number 1 most important thing is that you're used to a mouse; I know people that can aim reasonably well with mice that I wouldn't dare use myself. If you want to try a new mouse, know that you have to put a lot of time into using that new mouse to give that new mouse a proper chance. The shape is the most important feature of a mouse assuming the internals aren't complete garbage.

PUBG is not a particularly aim-intensive game, and I don't know what "1v1 arena" thing you're doing in cs, but cs:go (and all other popular fps esports for that matter) isn't as aim-intensive as people make it out to be. Worry less about your mouse/hardware if you're currently only thinking about those games. If you just want to get better as fast as you can, your time will be better spent learning about decision-making, positioning, and any other mechanics specific to those games.

Waiting for Ninox's mouse would probably be
thumb.gif
 
#5 ·
Just for your information, your reaction time to something you see on screen is around 180-200ms on average. The older you get the higher that number will be.

So in reality the difference between a Logitech mouse and your WMO is going to be somewhere around 6-7 ms (if you say its 11ms). That difference is around 3-4% when added to the total human reaction time.

So I wouldn't worry about button response too much. Focus more on shape and weight.
 
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#6 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2shellbonus View Post

The older you get the higher that number will be.
How old should you be? You start losing your reaction in late 30s. Actually the pick of the reaction time of human male is 25-30. And even when you'll get very old if you are healthy enough the difference won't be too impressive smth like 30-50 ms. One of the important things of the age in gaming is your experience. Older person process more information in certain situations and young people are more impulsive, they just act and not thinking too much, that could be the key. Also motivation and lack of training are very important.
 
#7 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by m1hka View Post

How old should you be? You start losing your reaction in late 30s. Actually the pick of the reaction time of human male is 25-30. And even when you'll get very old if you are healthy enough the difference won't be too impressive smth like 30-50 ms. One of the important things of the age in gaming is your experience. Older person process more information in certain situations and young people are more impulsive, they just act and not thinking too much, that could be the key. Also motivation and lack of training are very important.
Well judging by me, I've lost around 10-15ms on average to myself (20 vs 32 years of age). I suspect those stats arent getting any better any time soon
 
#8 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2shellbonus View Post

Well judging by me, I've lost around 10-15ms on average to myself (20 vs 32 years of age). I suspect those stats arent getting any better any time soon
Fair enough! It can be different from person to person and depends of health state and lifestyle. My results are the same or almost the same (19-29). And btw I'm getting very different results if I slept well or not, like 50 ms difference. The state of the spine is very important as well.
Seems like age haven't affect toxjc. And Cooller stated in interview that he couldn't see any difference. Tons of oldschool CS players perform great as well.
 
#9 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by he4th View Post

thanks I sorta thought that might be the case. its just hmmm. I am happy with my mouse its just 11ms seems like alot compared do these 1-4ms mice.

and I'm also shy of using the WMO because all the CSGO players have abandoned it on the spreadsheet there's only one guy using a wmo style mouse but its a IE3.0... I know that might seem like a dumb reason to upgrade but those guys do sorta know what's going on somewhat if not a little bias via sponsorship.
Pros have no clue what they're doing, they're just playing the game. 90% of pros use zowie mice, which have insane click latency & shell stiffness, due to sponsors.
Honestly, just use what you're comfortable with. Overclock your WMO and frag the heck out of people, very easy task. Stop caring about click latency, it just gimps your overall performance if you care about it.
 
#10 ·
so you guys really think theres no point upgrading from a 15-11ms mouse to a 1-4ms one.? hmm what about sensor are there any sensors better than the wmo now. I hear lots of contention saying the 3366 isn't all that etc. I'm happy to stick with my WMO but I'm not sure about overclocking it because I want to play on ESEA and would hate to get used to a mouse I have to boot in test mode that's banned on esea. what I might do Is use a PS2 converter just to get it running at 200hz is it?

its just I really do feel the ms do matter. I already play on 30-70ping I have monitor with 0ms to help that I have keyboard with 0.2ms to help that I figure I should have mouse with low response too..... not one of the slowest like the old wmo.
 
#11 ·
how do you know if the mouse is running at 8000hz I set it up and in mouse tester it shows hz from 100-2500ish does that mean its running at 8000hz or have I done the overclock wrong.

it feels smoother like a brand new mouse call it placebo but I think I can tell its gone from 15ms to 11
 
#12 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by m1hka View Post

Fair enough! It can be different from person to person and depends of health state and lifestyle. My results are the same or almost the same (19-29). And btw I'm getting very different results if I slept well or not, like 50 ms difference. The state of the spine is very important as well.
Seems like age haven't affect toxjc. And Cooller stated in interview that he couldn't see any difference. Tons of oldschool CS players perform great as well.
That is indeed true. Shape and health determine how well you perform even in non physical activities. In a healthy body lives a healthy mind. I also experienced the same, when i am short on sleep i underperform.

I used to be a bit chubby and not very fit when i was 17. Now i am 32 and i eat healthy, work out a lot and my reactions are much quicker. Went down to140-170. In addition i gathered a lot of experience through the years, so that aids me on top and i value that a lot more. And i actively try to improve being critical and honest with myself. I improved a lot over the years and i am much better than when i was younger.

Age is less limiting in non physical activities than lets say Tennis, where you still have pros that are in their mid 30's and perform well at the very top. So unless someone is like 70 or older they shouldn't be concerned. And even at that age you will have different results.

People forget that gaming and internet in general is still a relatively new thing. So of course you don't have super old people playing games when the internet didn't even exist when they were young, which will 100% change. As time goes on the more older people you will see play games. And the age range will steadily increase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by he4th View Post

so you guys really think theres no point upgrading from a 15-11ms mouse to a 1-4ms one.? hmm what about sensor are there any sensors better than the wmo now. I hear lots of contention saying the 3366 isn't all that etc. I'm happy to stick with my WMO but I'm not sure about overclocking it because I want to play on ESEA and would hate to get used to a mouse I have to boot in test mode that's banned on esea. what I might do Is use a PS2 converter just to get it running at 200hz is it?

its just I really do feel the ms do matter. I already play on 30-70ping I have monitor with 0ms to help that I have keyboard with 0.2ms to help that I figure I should have mouse with low response too..... not one of the slowest like the old wmo.
You should pick a few you like shapewise then ask in this forum about what would be best for you out of the ones you picked. Order it and play with it for like 2 weeks, then be honest to yourself what you perform better with.

Along with sponsorship deals, there is also the issue with players not being allowed to overclock their old microsoft mice at events. Which also a lot of pros switch, especially when the mice that are available nowadays are generally so much better than the majority of mice available a few years ago.

Good luck, deciding, i know how annoying that can be when you got something stuck in your head. It seems like in the back of your head you have already decided that you want a new mouse. So just go with your feelings.
 
#13 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by he4th View Post

how do you know if the mouse is running at 8000hz I set it up and in mouse tester it shows hz from 100-2500ish does that mean its running at 8000hz or have I done the overclock wrong.

it feels smoother like a brand new mouse call it placebo but I think I can tell its gone from 15ms to 11
just really want to know if I did the overclock right. it doesn't seem right

I think I did the 8000hz overclock on my WMO but in mouserate it only shows going from around 100hz up to 2180hz but when I uncheck the record button it shows up to 8000hz. in MouseTester I get really bad results shows 1500000hz and crazy stuff. is the program just bugged out on new windows did I do the overclock right? or is my motherboard or some thing messing with the overclock.

and if you guys are wondering after the overclock it feels so good I've decided to keep using the WMO ill look into the Ninox wmo replacement next may but until then I'm happy the OC brings it down to 11ms which isn't that far behind the Zowies and razer top mice sure the g403 at 4ms is pretty fast and apparently a great mouse but I just cant justify spending 60$ on a mice when my WMO's only cost me 10$ each second hand refurbished. ill save my 60$ for some thing special.. apart of me does want to go get some crazy 1ms click mouse just to test out but they all look so budget and bad builds / flashy plastic.
 
#14 ·
does any one have a good guide to doing the tape trick to the WMO? I wouldn't mind reducing its lift off distance and I tried to tape it before but I'm not sure it worked out right. as far as I can tell main reason most use zowie is that they have that plastic tab that does the same thing as the tape trick but its more reliable wont fall off in a game and I guess the pros favor that tab over doing tape trick or using software to reduce liftoff height.
 
#17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyube View Post

Increasing your polling rate over 1kHz won't make any difference, you'll just hog your CPU and you'll rarely hit 8kHz speed.
Keep it on 1kHz (or 500hz if your system/mouse can't handle it) and call it a day.
it does feel different at 8000hz thou and it increases the ms lag of click by afue ms so theres some reason. idknow my mouse has just felt amazing since I set it to 8k.
 
#19 ·
There isn't anything similar to a modern WMO.

I guess the closest would be a Finalmouse Scream One / Tournament Pro in terms of shape and weight. But... I wouldn't recommend one, due to the reputations and problems they have.

As far as sensor goes, I'm pretty happy with the 3360 / 3366 mice I have.

I have two G403 (wired and wireless, well, a G703, same thing), and pretty happy with both in terms of feel and performance. I'm not as self-conscious when using them, as I was with say, Zowies (shape is wrong for me, had some perceived movement lag, but could be placebo due to shape), and DM1 Pro S (shape, buttons).

So, I would recommend either a DeathAdder, or a G403, or some other good 3360 mouse that feel right.

I would also say that I haven't found a modern mouse with a scroll wheel remotely similar to my WMO (very soft, and easy to click). But I don't really care about the wheel for gaming.
 
#20 ·
I can confirm the Scream One is the closest shape to a WMO in my experience. If you grip your mouse as I do, which is a relaxed claw grip with a 18.5cm long and 10.5cm wide hand, you might find the FK1 comfortable too, it's actually lower and thinner but feels ok, as I told you the closest one is the S1. I got lucky and got a really nice copy, clicks have no pretravel and are responsive, slam click isn't an issue for me even after using it on a glasspad everyday, so you just have to be really lucky on the build quality department. Only thing that I find could be better is the cord.
 
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