What I mean by that is. It has been really difficult to buy a AMD GPU at MSRP this year because of Cryptocurrency, or any decent GPU at MSRP. So, what do you think, will Ryzen 5 2400G (Vega 11) really be available and sold for MSRP of $169 or will stores mark it up twice as much also? I have a B350 mobo just waiting for this APU, and I put a planned payment of $169 plus tax aside for it, but suddenly it occurred to me that it may not be sold for MSRP.
EDIT: Thanks for the info, I am sure now this won't be an issue.
Yeah I know exactly why GPU's have these issues, but since it will have a Vega 11 on-board I have to assume it will perform similarly to any other Vega GPU where mining is concerned. I am starting to think with cheap AM4 motherboards, it might be better to mine with a Ryzen Vega APU, and then just fill in the PCIe slots with more GPU's, lol.
I better buy the Ryzen 5 2400G the very second it gets listed, or even buy it on pre-order, just in case it does a good job and miners start gobbling up those too.
No. You would need an entire motherboard, ram, harddrive etc. for every single APU, it is not even in the same universe as the cost effectiveness of discrete GPU mining.
People may use it as the host chip for their mining rigs for a few extra hashes, but even then, you would probably get better performance for your $ if you buy a <$50 CPU and spend the leftover $100+ on a discrete GPU.... it's not like gaming where the CPU performance matters.
It has a free Vega gpu on those new APU's. How could that not be better for mining than a $50 cpu? Any system requires ram, motherboard etc. Get a $75 AM4 mobo, put two 1080 Ti's in the slots and one Vega APU on the AM4 slot. I would think this Ryzen system would out perform with mining at a lower cost just because it contains a free Vega GPU built in. You cant buy another third mining strong GPU for free, like you just did with the Ryzen 5 APU. Right?
It has a free Vega gpu on those new APU's. How could that not be better for mining than a $50 cpu? Any system requires ram, motherboard etc. Get a $75 AM4 mobo, put two 1080 Ti's in the slots and one Vega APU on the AM4 slot. I would think this Ryzen system would out perform with mining at a lower cost just because it contains a free Vega GPU built in. You cant buy another third mining strong GPU for free, like you just did with the Ryzen 5 APU. Right?
The people that are causing the shortages of GPU's have mining farms with sometimes hundreds or even thousands of GPU's. They buy super cheap CPU's that fit into mining specific motherboards that have a ton of x1 pcie slots... I do realize there are AM4 mining motherboards, but when the amount of pcie slots is not an issue, i go back to my logic of just buying a cheaper CPU and spending the extra money on a discrete graphics card. Regardless, when 5+ graphics cards are being used per motherboard by miners, you could see that the demand of only 1 CPU/APU per board would be much less to begin with.
What you are proposing is a conventional system (non-mining mobo) that is made specifically for mining, but is sacrificing potential performance in all other tasks by pairing a less than ideal CPU with really powerful GPU's? I would have to say the demographic would be super tiny on this one.
Yeah all very good points. I really hope to see these APU's for MSRP or I will be quite upset. I was not planning on building a system this soon into the year, but with a free AM4 board just suddenly showing up at my door it gives me an opportunity to try it sooner rather than later. Unfortunately, with the 2000 series so close to release (and not having a decent gpu to put on the board), and Vega inside some of these no less, I have decided I can only consciously do a Ryzen 5 2400G (or even the 2200G would be fine with me). But ONLY if the MSRP is the true purchase price.
Thanks guys for entertaining me. I hope you guys are right...
Yeah all very good points. I really hope to see these APU's for MSRP or I will be quite upset. I was not planning on building a system this soon into the year, but with a free AM4 board just suddenly showing up at my door it gives me an opportunity to try it sooner rather than later. Unfortunately, with the 2000 series so close to release (and not having a decent gpu to put on the board), and Vega inside some of these no less, I have decided I can only consciously do a Ryzen 5 2400G (or even the 2200G would be fine with me). But ONLY if the MSRP is the true purchase price.
Thanks guys for entertaining me. I hope you guys are right...
Very likely not profitable to build 7 whole systems when you can put 7 much more powerful GPUs into 1 system.
Someone would have to make an enormous mobo that can magically fit 10 APUs at once. Then yeah, they could be leveraged for compute in certain ways. But it's like using consoles for compute or mining, that has been done before also but those at least have a decent GPU in them compared to the new APUs.
I was already planning on an X470 (Asus Crosshair VII HERO I hope, lol) for this June time frame, but my uncle up in Alaska suddenly decided to start trying his hand at Ethereum mining with his rig, and he didn't like the microATX ASRock board he had (Think more slots and easier for old hands to work with, his exact words), so he just got a Asus PRIME instead and sent his AB350M Pro4 to me. He doesn't like selling old equipment and instead prefers to give them away to family he thinks can use them. I was NOT expecting that to happen at all, but that's what happened and I appreciate it because I can't really afford to build a new PC right now, so if I do, it needs to be as frugal as possible (except for the stinking expensive RAM). All my current systems are either LGA755 or LGA1366, so I'm definitely in need of upgrading. Besides, I believe I have enough parts to sell on ebay now to make up for the sudden investment loss.
I'm thinking even a Vega APU will probably do better then my old HD5870, haha. Yes, sadly that is my current GPU.
You don't need a high performance rig to mine. So getting into the AM4 platform would not be cost effective. Especially with a rather low end, DDR4 powered built in gpu. You need to alot most of your budget for the gpu and electricity.
We have NEVER had any decent gaming graphics on a APU before, not even remotely close. That is all talking in the past tense, so talking about popularity for something that hasn't even existed until now doesn't make much sense. Now that 7nm is nearly upon us and Navi almost here we will be getting discrete 1060 and 1070Ti type performance on APU's as a much cheaper means to gaming. There is NOT one component on a discrete card that is so special that it can't be placed directly on a Motherboard, not one. You start putting GPU cores and HBM2/3 ever so much closer to the Processor and things will surely change. The ONLY reason discrete cards have ruled in the past is 100% because we have never had the technology nor the engineering skills that is upon us like we do now. You reduce the distances and thus the latency, increase the efficiency and power delivery and APU's will rule for gaming in the future. I can easily see a day when only the 1080's and the 1080 Ti's, and your Titan type cards will be a discrete card for extreme Enthusiasts only (just exactly like discrete sound cards are today), but every tier below that will be using an APU, which is 90% of the gaming market, if not much more.
If Navi on an APU does say 120 fps on a 1440p display for sub $200 (which is what is expected), I can't see anything but the APU selling, to everyone except the extremely rare professional gamer. Sure, discrete is still here to stay for a long while, but for gaming it is slowly and crystal clearly moving to on board. And I believe that future starts with Vega and Navi.
We have NEVER had any decent gaming graphics on a APU before, not even remotely close. That is all talking in the past tense, so talking about popularity for something that hasn't even existed until now doesn't make much sense. Now that 7nm is nearly upon us and Navi almost here we will be getting discrete 1060 and 1070Ti type performance on APU's as a much cheaper means to gaming. There is NOT one component on a discrete card that is so special that it can't be placed directly on a Motherboard, not one. You start putting GPU cores and HBM2/3 ever so much closer to the Processor and things will surely change. The ONLY reason discrete cards have ruled in the past is 100% because we have never had the technology nor the engineering skills that is upon us like we do now. You reduce the distances and thus the latency, increase the efficiency and power delivery and APU's will rule for gaming in the future. I can easily see a day when only the 1080's and the 1080 Ti's, and your Titan type cards will be a discrete card for extreme Enthusiasts only (just exactly like discrete sound cards are today), but every tier below that will be using an APU, which is 90% of the gaming market, if not much more.
If Navi on an APU does say 120 fps on a 1440p display for sub $200 (which is what is expected), I can't see anything but the APU selling, to everyone except the extremely rare professional gamer. Sure, discrete is still here to stay for a long while, but for gaming it is slowly and crystal clearly moving to on board. And I believe that future starts with Vega and Navi.
That chip is like having a 1030 or close in you're system. I like 6gb of vram and 10gb used by system over the shared memory of an APU.. I also like a good framerate, if you are stuck with on-board graphics than you are not an average pc gamer. Screens are moving to 2k-4k screens and ultra wide. Bigger than 1080p is becoming normal for lot's of pc gamers and this will not work well for that. People that can't buy a decent
system buy a console, as that is what they are for(cheap way to game with ok graphics).
This will be great for people under 1080p at medium settings
Yeah, I don't think it will either, which I suspect is why we are only seeing Vega on quad core APU's. If Navi becomes a super simple small die GPU, as AMD plans on, it could feasibly be installed onto Threadripper though. Might have to reduce the core count to give up some socket pins to the GPU, but hey who cares about that. I could see a full sized Navi (or future next-gen GPU on 5nm) put onto Threadripper (Zen 3) with say only 8-12 cores tops. All the power delivery could be given directly to the Motherboards impressive VRM setup and HBM2 should have 8gb and even 16GB dies by then (maybe even 32GB dies by then). An HDMI and DP ports don't take up much room in the IO area either, especially if they use the mini versions of them.
It just couldn't be any more crystal clear where this tech is going. I have never seen a technology that has been this clear as to where it is headed. Now I understand why NVIDIA no longer sends me gaming topic emails any more, lol. Just one giant email after another about AI, Compute products, autonomous driving tech, etc etc. They just do not care about gaming any more as they can't compete with the PC APU's coming in the near future. NVIDIA's moto in the future will be "NVIDIA, the way it's meant to be auto Driven"... And why not, its a $13 TRILLION dollar market, by far dwarfing the gaming market. I just hope my next car is powered by NVIDIA, and they let me play games while my car takes me home. Haha
Yeah, I don't think it will either, which I suspect is why we are only seeing Vega on quad core APU's. If Navi becomes a super simple small die GPU, as AMD plans on, it could feasibly be installed onto Threadripper though. Might have to reduce the core count to give up some socket pins to the GPU, but hey who cares about that. I could see a full sized Navi (or future next-gen GPU on 5nm) put onto Threadripper (Zen 3) with say only 8-12 cores tops. All the power delivery could be given directly to the Motherboards impressive VRM setup and HBM2 should have 8gb and even 16GB dies by then (maybe even 32GB dies by then). An HDMI and DP ports don't take up much room in the IO area either, especially if they use the mini versions of them.
It just couldn't be any more crystal clear where this tech is going. I have never seen a technology that has been this clear as to where it is headed. Now I understand why NVIDIA no longer sends me gaming topic emails any more, lol. Just one giant email after another about AI, Compute products, autonomous driving tech, etc etc. They just do not care about gaming any more as they can't compete with the PC APU's coming in the near future. NVIDIA's moto in the future will be "NVIDIA, the way it's meant to be auto Driven"... And why not, its a $13 TRILLION dollar market, by far dwarfing the gaming market. I just hope my next car is powered by NVIDIA, and they let me play games while my car takes me home. Haha
Well, I do know AMD is working on a similar solution to the intel+amd chip, and it's codenamed "Fenghuang"... With that being said, it may never see the light of day, and even if it does, it will likely be a semi-custom design/oem-only platform with bga. I am not super technical but I don't see the possibility of being able to have hbm stacks on the substrate for am4.
We have NEVER had any decent gaming graphics on a APU before, not even remotely close. That is all talking in the past tense, so talking about popularity for something that hasn't even existed until now doesn't make much sense. Now that 7nm is nearly upon us and Navi almost here we will be getting discrete 1060 and 1070Ti type performance on APU's as a much cheaper means to gaming. There is NOT one component on a discrete card that is so special that it can't be placed directly on a Motherboard, not one. You start putting GPU cores and HBM2/3 ever so much closer to the Processor and things will surely change. The ONLY reason discrete cards have ruled in the past is 100% because we have never had the technology nor the engineering skills that is upon us like we do now. You reduce the distances and thus the latency, increase the efficiency and power delivery and APU's will rule for gaming in the future. I can easily see a day when only the 1080's and the 1080 Ti's, and your Titan type cards will be a discrete card for extreme Enthusiasts only (just exactly like discrete sound cards are today), but every tier below that will be using an APU, which is 90% of the gaming market, if not much more.
If Navi on an APU does say 120 fps on a 1440p display for sub $200 (which is what is expected), I can't see anything but the APU selling, to everyone except the extremely rare professional gamer. Sure, discrete is still here to stay for a long while, but for gaming it is slowly and crystal clearly moving to on board. And I believe that future starts with Vega and Navi.
What alternate reality are you living in? Ryzen apu's are going to suck for real gaming. They will be just as bandwidth starved as the FM2+ apu's. Nothing has changed. As far as HBM the cost is prohibitive. People have been talking about it for five years and nothing has ever materialized.
What alternate reality are you living in? Ryzen apu's are going to suck for real gaming. They will be just as bandwidth starved as the FM2+ apu's. Nothing has changed. As far as HBM the cost is prohibitive. People have been talking about it for five years and nothing has ever materialized.
The performance would be abysmal and you need a motherboard and a set of DDR4 for each of your "miners" So in no way whatsoever will these be used for mining.
Intel said the flagship is supposed to be a little faster than the 1060 max q. It has 4GB of HBM on package.
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