Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Sound Cards and Computer Audio › Incredible X-Fi mod *WILL VOID YOUR WARRANTY*, 56K WARNING
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Incredible X-Fi mod *WILL VOID YOUR WARRANTY*, 56K WARNING - Page 95

post #941 of 979
I've made up my mind and I'm going to BestBuy tomorrow to get a decent set of 2.1 PC speakers. I'm thinking Klipsch Promedia 2.1 ? I checked my closest BestBuy and they have them in stock for ~$150 I believe. Is there anything else in this price range that has more bang for the buck ?

I will be using this set with my modded X-Fi Xtreme Music :~)
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 2500K ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 EVGA GTX 570 1280MB 2x4GB Corsair XMS3 DDR3 1333 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
OCZ Agility 3 120 GB SSD & WD Black 500GB + ~2T... Sony NEC SATA DVD-RW Cooler Master Hyper 212 w/ 2 PWM Push Pull Windows 7 Pro x64 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Catleap Q270 SE @ 2560x1440 Dell U2211H @ 1920x1080 Razer Black Widow Mechanical Corsair AX850 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair Carbide 300R Logitech MX518 1600 DPI (Rev. 1) OCZ Behemeth Auzentech X-Fi Prelude 
Audio
Klipsch Promedia 2.1 + Sennheiser HD 595 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 2500K ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 EVGA GTX 570 1280MB 2x4GB Corsair XMS3 DDR3 1333 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
OCZ Agility 3 120 GB SSD & WD Black 500GB + ~2T... Sony NEC SATA DVD-RW Cooler Master Hyper 212 w/ 2 PWM Push Pull Windows 7 Pro x64 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Catleap Q270 SE @ 2560x1440 Dell U2211H @ 1920x1080 Razer Black Widow Mechanical Corsair AX850 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair Carbide 300R Logitech MX518 1600 DPI (Rev. 1) OCZ Behemeth Auzentech X-Fi Prelude 
Audio
Klipsch Promedia 2.1 + Sennheiser HD 595 
  hide details  
Reply
post #942 of 979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross211 View Post
I've made up my mind and I'm going to BestBuy tomorrow to get a decent set of 2.1 PC speakers. I'm thinking Klipsch Promedia 2.1 ? I checked my closest BestBuy and they have them in stock for ~$150 I believe. Is there anything else in this price range that has more bang for the buck ?

I will be using this set with my modded X-Fi Xtreme Music :~)

imo go for m audio av 40's or bx5's. just my
Pimprig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 860 @ 3.8ghz EVGA P55 LE Diamond Radeon 4890 955mhz core, 1050mhz mem Corsair xms 3 4GB, ocz reaperx 4gb (8gb total) 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD caviar black 2tb (2x1TB) RAID-0 LG SATA super multi win7 ultimate on desktop and laptop. Gateway FPD2485 24" 1920x1200, samsung19"1440x900 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
G15 v2, logitech G13 BFG GS series 550 watt, HX1000 getting RMAd Antec 300 alienware tactx, mx revolution, g9, razer lachesis 
Mouse Pad
adesso cybertablet m14 
  hide details  
Reply
Pimprig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 860 @ 3.8ghz EVGA P55 LE Diamond Radeon 4890 955mhz core, 1050mhz mem Corsair xms 3 4GB, ocz reaperx 4gb (8gb total) 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD caviar black 2tb (2x1TB) RAID-0 LG SATA super multi win7 ultimate on desktop and laptop. Gateway FPD2485 24" 1920x1200, samsung19"1440x900 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
G15 v2, logitech G13 BFG GS series 550 watt, HX1000 getting RMAd Antec 300 alienware tactx, mx revolution, g9, razer lachesis 
Mouse Pad
adesso cybertablet m14 
  hide details  
Reply
post #943 of 979
Does anyone think my soundcard can possibly cause my rig to go up in an expensive fireworks show now? Especially with what I did to a few of the caps on the card.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 2500K ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 EVGA GTX 570 1280MB 2x4GB Corsair XMS3 DDR3 1333 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
OCZ Agility 3 120 GB SSD & WD Black 500GB + ~2T... Sony NEC SATA DVD-RW Cooler Master Hyper 212 w/ 2 PWM Push Pull Windows 7 Pro x64 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Catleap Q270 SE @ 2560x1440 Dell U2211H @ 1920x1080 Razer Black Widow Mechanical Corsair AX850 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair Carbide 300R Logitech MX518 1600 DPI (Rev. 1) OCZ Behemeth Auzentech X-Fi Prelude 
Audio
Klipsch Promedia 2.1 + Sennheiser HD 595 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 2500K ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 EVGA GTX 570 1280MB 2x4GB Corsair XMS3 DDR3 1333 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
OCZ Agility 3 120 GB SSD & WD Black 500GB + ~2T... Sony NEC SATA DVD-RW Cooler Master Hyper 212 w/ 2 PWM Push Pull Windows 7 Pro x64 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Catleap Q270 SE @ 2560x1440 Dell U2211H @ 1920x1080 Razer Black Widow Mechanical Corsair AX850 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair Carbide 300R Logitech MX518 1600 DPI (Rev. 1) OCZ Behemeth Auzentech X-Fi Prelude 
Audio
Klipsch Promedia 2.1 + Sennheiser HD 595 
  hide details  
Reply
post #944 of 979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross211 View Post
Does anyone think my soundcard can possibly cause my rig to go up in an expensive fireworks show now? Especially with what I did to a few of the caps on the card.

if that implies blow it up with huge sparks and be a fire hazzard my vote is no. a sound card doesnt draw anywhere near enough power to make big visable sparks unlike my video card did once. could it cause permanent motherboard damage from a small spark, maybe. i dont know, no idea.

edit: looks like you damaged a capacitor? try finding another cap with the same microfrad rating and just replace it to be safe. thats my advice, i dont know how to find out the same cap to find, others will probably know that, or i could just be wrong all together.
Edited by coreyL - 10/31/10 at 4:47am
Pimprig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 860 @ 3.8ghz EVGA P55 LE Diamond Radeon 4890 955mhz core, 1050mhz mem Corsair xms 3 4GB, ocz reaperx 4gb (8gb total) 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD caviar black 2tb (2x1TB) RAID-0 LG SATA super multi win7 ultimate on desktop and laptop. Gateway FPD2485 24" 1920x1200, samsung19"1440x900 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
G15 v2, logitech G13 BFG GS series 550 watt, HX1000 getting RMAd Antec 300 alienware tactx, mx revolution, g9, razer lachesis 
Mouse Pad
adesso cybertablet m14 
  hide details  
Reply
Pimprig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 860 @ 3.8ghz EVGA P55 LE Diamond Radeon 4890 955mhz core, 1050mhz mem Corsair xms 3 4GB, ocz reaperx 4gb (8gb total) 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD caviar black 2tb (2x1TB) RAID-0 LG SATA super multi win7 ultimate on desktop and laptop. Gateway FPD2485 24" 1920x1200, samsung19"1440x900 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
G15 v2, logitech G13 BFG GS series 550 watt, HX1000 getting RMAd Antec 300 alienware tactx, mx revolution, g9, razer lachesis 
Mouse Pad
adesso cybertablet m14 
  hide details  
Reply
post #945 of 979
Hi,

Why must modders all go out for free samples, just because you can? Those are intended for engineers working on product development, maybe students with projects, someone who eventually might come back and purchase in quantity. It's an abuse of an honor system that people really do need.. and it will make it go away! It would have cost you all of $7, instead you took more than you even needed.

Your soldering appears to have either poor wetting, and/or a lack of solder. You should see nice "fillets" leading up from the pad to the foot. Easy to touch up with a bit of extra flux. Just compare it to the others and see for yourself how it's supposed to look. For a first attempt though it works and you didn't destroy it so bravo. You should always have extra flux around for this type of work, it makes life easy.

The problem with those cheap irons is the danger zone is a mile long and that puts everything in peril, it also makes it harder to control as you're forced to hold it from further away, amplifying the shakes and tremors. Why they do something that stupid is beyond me. Little caps like that though are always in the danger zone and you have to look out for them.

It's unlikely you did any real damage other than to melt through pvc jacket, which is trivial in this case. Make sure the can under it is in good repair with no physical damage, and just leave it alone. You'll probably never find the exact cap to replace it with, throwing in another of equal value can still by very different, and throw off the synergy amongst them.

I got a pair of M-Audio ... M-30? Studio monitor type speakers for a family member's PC build I did. Worth the money, and so would the 40 be.

So it looks like you might have a near rail bypass cap in the form of a ceramic cap. That's not something I'd much want to listen to. If you really want to mess with the sound character now, you'll take a stab at improving the local bypassing, AT THE PIN.

Try and trace back how far the supporting electrolytic cap is from the pins, and how far they fan out.... does that single cap power 4 op amps or just one? The further away it is and the more it fans out the worse it gets.

Resist the urge to use this ability to tune it like an EQ, because you'll find that you can. Most people will end up with monster bass, zero highs, recessed mids... and think it's perfect, so you can't really follow what you see others doing, and it is a very steep learning curve before you get to expect to see the sort of results you hoped for.

Try a high quality film cap of small physical size and lead pitch directly across the rails at the op amp. a 5mm lead pitch for example will straddle that op amp's supply pins directly. The quality of the exact parts that you choose will be what you hear, and the synergy between them will lead to an EQ effect that must be avoided. You want a flat, balanced response across the entire range.

This will have the potential to improve the sound far more than the op amp did, but expect it to get much worse before it gets better. Don't even try it unless you're insanely dedicated to an improvement, or try it just to see the extent of influence it can have, but be prepared to go back to the way it was.
________

EDIT: When you trace out the supply pins with your ohm meter, if they're trace back to those jaimicon electrolytics you burnt, then you've given yourself an excuse to replace them.

The best you can do is find an audio grade cap (not audiophile), and make sure it's designed as audiograde and not sold as one by some audiophile!! Look towards Elna.

The caps are harder to replace not because of the cheap boards but because caps are harder to replace. The big can, the foil elements, all make great heatsinks, and one leg is often soldered to a ground plane, which is an amazing heatsink as well. This job demands a good iron of proper wattage so that you're not sitting on it heating up the entire board for an hour, better to have a quicker blast of heat that can reflew it sooner, but you can't overheat it either, temp control is required. Also consider it's two leads that need to be reflowed at once. You can do one at a time and wiggle it out that way, while not cooking the board. Frequent breaks help and when your finger is burning you'll take one anyway.

What works best though, is just to bridge the leads with a big blob of solder, and then heat them both up simultaneously. Then with just a slight will and outward pressure, it'll pop right out. If you can't do it your iron is junk.

The later method requires less force on the cap, because you're not wiggling it and then putting the spring tension of the cap's leads along with extra force applied by yourself onto the heated solder pads.

The better your iron and technique is, the more often you can rework the same pad without damage. With a standard Iron I would expect a good 3 to 5 times before a solder pad lifts. With my iron I have reworked the same caps some 25+ times. I have a few missing solder pads, but they don't make the connection, they're all through hole plated, as they should be, and so I've been able to keep reworking them even after that. The obvious tip here is to straighten and cut any excess lead off before starting, especially if you use the wiggle method.

Again, practice this on a scrap board at least half a dozen times before you go at it. The Jaimicon gen purpose electrolytic, cheap as it is, is sonically interesting, but holds back a boatload. Remember the key here is an audio grade cap, avoid common junk like FM, FC, ZL.. everyone loves them... they're of abhorent sound quality.

I'm not sure if you have any local cap to the pins or not. You need to check. Having an op amp like that in such a circuit with no local bypassing is a big mistake. I promise you that you're not hearing it yet, you're only hearing the lack of quality in the layout and associated components.
Edited by rollemup - 10/31/10 at 6:02am
post #946 of 979
The opamps are actually the easy part on this mod it's the caps that are hard due to the low quality PCB creative chose.

Don't buy promedias for $150, find them used for less. They are good for PC speakers but you'd be much better odd with a good pair of powered monitors such as the audioengine a2. There is lots of info on this topic in the forum so do a search.
Darkness
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Q6600 G0 Gigabye GA-EP45-UD3P EVGA GTX660 8GB G.Skill PK 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD 640GB & Samsung F1 750Gb LG BD & HD Windows 8 Pro x64 HP w2207 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
FILCO FKBN87M/NPEK Enermax Modu82+ 525w CM 690 Logitech G9x 
Mouse PadAudio
Razor Destructor ODAC 
  hide details  
Reply
Darkness
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Q6600 G0 Gigabye GA-EP45-UD3P EVGA GTX660 8GB G.Skill PK 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD 640GB & Samsung F1 750Gb LG BD & HD Windows 8 Pro x64 HP w2207 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
FILCO FKBN87M/NPEK Enermax Modu82+ 525w CM 690 Logitech G9x 
Mouse PadAudio
Razor Destructor ODAC 
  hide details  
Reply
post #947 of 979
Quote:
Originally Posted by rollemup View Post
Hi,

Why must modders all go out for free samples, just because you can? Those are intended for engineers working on product development, maybe students with projects, someone who eventually might come back and purchase in quantity. It's an abuse of an honor system that people really do need.. and it will make it go away! It would have cost you all of $7, instead you took more than you even needed.
rollemup, I get your point clearly. I am being wasteful, I always want to bite onto more than I can chew (can't you tell by my profile? ) Since receiving these from National I have had intention on giving these LM4562 opamps away for free to forum members wishing to do this mod. I have 3 or 4 LM4562 opamp left, and they can be had for the price of USPS First Class shipping to your door. I might make a For Free thread at TPU. Otherwise PM me here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rollemup View Post
Your soldering appears to have either poor wetting, and/or a lack of solder. You should see nice "fillets" leading up from the pad to the foot. Easy to touch up with a bit of extra flux. Just compare it to the others and see for yourself how it's supposed to look. For a first attempt though it works and you didn't destroy it so bravo. You should always have extra flux around for this type of work, it makes life easy.
I was thinking I didn't have enough solder where the legs on the opamp attach to the pads, but I didn't want to go overboard. Would you recommend touching up on the pads with some .032'' 60/40 Rosin-Core solder? This is the solder that I used for the mod. I've been told that Rosin-Core solder contains flux ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rollemup View Post
The problem with those cheap irons is the danger zone is a mile long and that puts everything in peril, it also makes it harder to control as you're forced to hold it from further away, amplifying the shakes and tremors. Why they do something that stupid is beyond me. Little caps like that though are always in the danger zone and you have to look out for them.
Damn I really did learn my lesson to observe *** you're doing with the iron when you have it anywhere close to other components on the PCB. Thankfully my card is still working fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rollemup View Post
It's unlikely you did any real damage other than to melt through pvc jacket, which is trivial in this case. Make sure the can under it is in good repair with no physical damage, and just leave it alone. You'll probably never find the exact cap to replace it with, throwing in another of equal value can still by very different, and throw off the synergy amongst them.
Phew, I was really worried that something might explode last night when I first plugged the card in. I'm still concerned - when you say "make sure the can under it is in good repair with no physical damage", are you talking about materials inside or below the caps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rollemup View Post
I got a pair of M-Audio ... M-30? Studio monitor type speakers for a family member's PC build I did. Worth the money, and so would the 40 be.
Thank you for this recommendation I'm currently eying these on newegg now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rollemup View Post
So it looks like you might have a near rail bypass cap in the form of a ceramic cap. That's not something I'd much want to listen to. If you really want to mess with the sound character now, you'll take a stab at improving the local bypassing, AT THE PIN.

Try and trace back how far the supporting electrolytic cap is from the pins, and how far they fan out.... does that single cap power 4 op amps or just one? The further away it is and the more it fans out the worse it gets.
I lost you here. Sorry I'm not very knowledgeable in this area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rollemup View Post
Resist the urge to use this ability to tune it like an EQ, because you'll find that you can. Most people will end up with monster bass, zero highs, recessed mids... and think it's perfect, so you can't really follow what you see others doing, and it is a very steep learning curve before you get to expect to see the sort of results you hoped for.
So are you saying resist the urge to physically modding the card to obtain results that you can with an EQ ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rollemup View Post
EDIT: When you trace out the supply pins with your ohm meter, if they're trace back to those jaimicon electrolytics you burnt, then you've given yourself an excuse to replace them.

The best you can do is find an audio grade cap (not audiophile), and make sure it's designed as audiograde and not sold as one by some audiophile!! Look towards Elna.

The caps are harder to replace not because of the cheap boards but because caps are harder to replace. The big can, the foil elements, all make great heatsinks, and one leg is often soldered to a ground plane, which is an amazing heatsink as well. This job demands a good iron of proper wattage so that you're not sitting on it heating up the entire board for an hour, better to have a quicker blast of heat that can reflew it sooner, but you can't overheat it either, temp control is required. Also consider it's two leads that need to be reflowed at once. You can do one at a time and wiggle it out that way, while not cooking the board. Frequent breaks help and when your finger is burning you'll take one anyway.

What works best though, is just to bridge the leads with a big blob of solder, and then heat them both up simultaneously. Then with just a slight will and outward pressure, it'll pop right out. If you can't do it your iron is junk.

The later method requires less force on the cap, because you're not wiggling it and then putting the spring tension of the cap's leads along with extra force applied by yourself onto the heated solder pads.

The better your iron and technique is, the more often you can rework the same pad without damage. With a standard Iron I would expect a good 3 to 5 times before a solder pad lifts. With my iron I have reworked the same caps some 25+ times. I have a few missing solder pads, but they don't make the connection, they're all through hole plated, as they should be, and so I've been able to keep reworking them even after that. The obvious tip here is to straighten and cut any excess lead off before starting, especially if you use the wiggle method.

Again, practice this on a scrap board at least half a dozen times before you go at it. The Jaimicon gen purpose electrolytic, cheap as it is, is sonically interesting, but holds back a boatload. Remember the key here is an audio grade cap, avoid common junk like FM, FC, ZL.. everyone loves them... they're of abhorent sound quality.

I'm not sure if you have any local cap to the pins or not. You need to check. Having an op amp like that in such a circuit with no local bypassing is a big mistake. I promise you that you're not hearing it yet, you're only hearing the lack of quality in the layout and associated components.
Thank you so much for your time and response. Is the only repercussion of having this opamp on here with no local bypassing lack of sound quality ? Or is there potential for killing my motherboard, sound card, etc. ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by soloz2 View Post
The opamps are actually the easy part on this mod it's the caps that are hard due to the low quality PCB creative chose.

Don't buy promedias for $150, find them used for less. They are good for PC speakers but you'd be much better odd with a good pair of powered monitors such as the audioengine a2. There is lots of info on this topic in the forum so do a search.
Thanks for the infos
Edited by Ross211 - 10/31/10 at 1:51pm
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 2500K ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 EVGA GTX 570 1280MB 2x4GB Corsair XMS3 DDR3 1333 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
OCZ Agility 3 120 GB SSD & WD Black 500GB + ~2T... Sony NEC SATA DVD-RW Cooler Master Hyper 212 w/ 2 PWM Push Pull Windows 7 Pro x64 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Catleap Q270 SE @ 2560x1440 Dell U2211H @ 1920x1080 Razer Black Widow Mechanical Corsair AX850 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair Carbide 300R Logitech MX518 1600 DPI (Rev. 1) OCZ Behemeth Auzentech X-Fi Prelude 
Audio
Klipsch Promedia 2.1 + Sennheiser HD 595 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 2500K ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 EVGA GTX 570 1280MB 2x4GB Corsair XMS3 DDR3 1333 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
OCZ Agility 3 120 GB SSD & WD Black 500GB + ~2T... Sony NEC SATA DVD-RW Cooler Master Hyper 212 w/ 2 PWM Push Pull Windows 7 Pro x64 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Catleap Q270 SE @ 2560x1440 Dell U2211H @ 1920x1080 Razer Black Widow Mechanical Corsair AX850 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair Carbide 300R Logitech MX518 1600 DPI (Rev. 1) OCZ Behemeth Auzentech X-Fi Prelude 
Audio
Klipsch Promedia 2.1 + Sennheiser HD 595 
  hide details  
Reply
post #948 of 979
Yeh, wasn't trying to berate you personally, as you know, but it's something I've seen so often. Don't get them on ebay either, get them from digikey or something. Better luck with proper suppliers.

Going overboard on the solder is pretty common and no big deal to fix up either. Some rosin (flux) loaded solder braid can remove it and clean it up at the same time. Additional flux is a big help though as it is multi purpose. Heat transfer, deoxydizing. helps the solder flow to where you want it and helps keep it off where you don't..

Additional solder just to get flux will likely give you too much like you say.... but you can always try for a "Vertical drag" technique.. look that up, it's cool. Can make a mess though. Might also look up a few SMT soldering tutorials so you'll see a few techniques in action.

Really, it looks like there's enough solder already and if you had a bit of flux on it it would flow out properly just by touching the tip of the iron on it.

Sometimes you get into tight spots and it's almost impossible not to burn a cap. Trust me, you're not the first. It is unsightly and makes it harder to brag later but that's about it. All I'm saying is to make sure the damage is cosmetic, mostly to reassure yourself.. I'm already certain it's not a problem. One audio "Tweak" btw, is to actually cut the jacket right off. I'm not recommending or advocating anybody does that, but people actually do it.

See the problem with a mod like this is that you likely started out with a stock, very crappy op amp.... JRC was it? That is the case then. That means low gain-bandwidth, that means it's less susceptible to piss poor bypassing, which is also the case.

So you take that and slap in a better op amp like the LM here that has a much higher gain-bandwidth product. That means nasties can sneak in and F with the control and stability of it, it may oscillate and run hot, yet sound sort of OK enough for most not to notice), but within reason, it will just sound like pure **** compared to how it could.

A bad analogy might be shoehorning in a race engine into a car was designed to run with a sewing machine engine. Step on the gas one time and it might rip itself apart, or if you actually get it up to speed you'll run it right off the road the first time you try cornering.. slam on the breaks and they'll just burn out... it's a "system".

A higher gain-bandwidth op amp means you need better wideband low Z bypass and decoupling networks closer to the pin, preferably right at the pin. If you have lengths of trace before the bypass cap from the pin, then it is inductance that presents high impedance at higher frequencies.

Long story short it's going to sound way better if you can pull off any type of half decent network at all right at the pin. The highest quality parts are manditory, but choose wisely and they can also cost amongst the lowest. That's why I stress to avoid the "audiophile" crap, and look for audio grade.

I'll just do you a massive favor and tell you to get silmic RFS by Elna. There is nothing better or even close to it..... and this is not "subjective", this is LAW, I **** you not. They're dirt cheap for what they are, and you can get them at digikey when you order your flux pen You'll need the braid to clean out the holes as well. Look for "soder" braid, with rosin, 1/8" wide works OK.

Then look for a quality film cap to bypass directly across the rails... what type... I dont' give all my secrets away You'll be quite impressed with the silmic alone but it's a little closed off making you want to lean in and a bit euphonic. That's where you'll start to really hear the music though, and feel it. Try that and you'll see how bad we're always being ripped off by these cheap electronics that would rather use a 2 cent cap than a 2 dollar cap, then come back here and rip them a new one for it.

True quality audio parts that do work and are well priced like silmics are rare and if we dont' support them they'll fall out of existence. Already they see no market in larger power supply sized caps for this reason, and it is an immeasurable loss on our part.
If you're in the audio business like creative, then you should be using the parts that get the job done right and not those that maximise profit margins, you dirty bastards.

Swapping different caps, types, values, and physical sizes, can change the sound character/response just like an EQ. So if you think you prefer heavy bass, it is easy to screw it up by arranging it bass heavy, but then you'll get a bass heavy recording one day and it will just sound stupid, or sound effects that sound "in place" and realistic with a little "tick tick tick" sound, like something small dropping on the floor, end up sounding like BOOM BOOM BOOM" and it's hard to see that as realistic.

What you actually have to do is train your hearing and develop critical listening habits. This takes years and will drive you mental. What you want from it though is a proper flat, even-handed response, for all types of music. Then you can EQ it later as required, but truth be told I never use or need one. It would just screw with my "norm" and my trained ear anyway.

Right now in those 10uF jamicons you have a cap that sounds fairly flat in response but really offers no deep bass, if anything it's just bright. If you move up to 22uF, you get some improved bass extension, and probably less highs, it's all relative and is like tiping the balance on a scale. If you make that a 22uF silmic, it will be absolutely insane bass, and easily quite lobsided. You fix that with additional decoupling and/or bypassing, that tips the scale the other way again, but there's also complex interractions between all the bypssing components.. and they can each be extremely audible when done improperly.

A 10uF silmic will get you more bass already but stay a little more even... if it's starting to sound like a lot of retarded work then I've given you the correct impression. Companies could do this over time and product revisions, but you'll find their design choices always revolve around maximizing profit margins, and sound quality be damned.

PS: What silmic RFS will give you that no other cap can, is natural pitch. You'll start to be able to tell the difference between a sax and a flute for example, as they'll be realistic, more than ever before.
Edited by rollemup - 10/31/10 at 2:43pm
post #949 of 979
Hi everyone. I just came upon this amazing thread. I can't believe it's been going on since '07. I'm definitely doing the mod on my card. I was wondering if anyone tried replacing the 22uF electrolythics with tantalums? What would they sound like?
post #950 of 979
like ****
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Sound Cards and Computer Audio
Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Sound Cards and Computer Audio › Incredible X-Fi mod *WILL VOID YOUR WARRANTY*, 56K WARNING