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post #11 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedEarth View Post
Yea basically one rail is more efficient than 4 or 2

Because with more rails you loose efficiency. That is why it is more costly
That is not true. Efficency and multiple rails are not directly related. Multiple rails reduce than chance of your system able to utlize all the power. This is different from efficency which is the amount of power the PSU uses to output the DC voltages.
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post #12 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulTa View Post
Here's a basic PSU rundown.

You have three different power rails. the 3.3V, the 5V, and the 12V. A good modern PSU will have most of it's power going to the 12V rail, although the 12V isn't the only place your PSU draws power. It's the place your graphics card and your CPU draw power though, which are typically the most power hungry components in your machine.

So let's say you have two 12V rails (labeled 12V1 and 12V2) and they are both rated at 18A. Well unfortunately you don't have 36A on the 12V, since you lose a little power overall from having multiple rails. Your total Amps on the 12V would be about 30-32ish.

Now a lot of people will recommend a single rail PSU, and for a good reason. Let's say that your graphics card needs 20A by itself to run at full load. Well each of your rails only provide a max of 18A, which isn't enough. Since your PSU will divide your CPU (typically here) on one rail and the GFX on another, the extra (let's say) 5A that your CPU isn't using wont go to your graphics card... you lose that extra power because that rail is dedicated to something else.

PCP&C PSUs are single rail monsters that are rated to run while being shot at by a tank. That's why you pay a pretty penny for them.
This is also invalid. The issue is not EFFICENCY. It is about design. Most multiple rail PSUs utilize one transformer to produce the 12v voltage. To follow ATX specs of less than 250w per wire (which is 12v@20.8A), PSU manufactors put in current limiting circuitry. So a PSU transformer may put out 32A but that is too much to follow ATX specs. Therefore, they split the rail. Therefore, the have two circuits which draw from the 32A pool but each rail will shut the PSU down if they draw over the 18A by design. There are dual 12v rails at 18A and have a total of 36A.

Single rails PSU allows user to utilize more of their PSU power since users do not have to worry about load balancing components on different rails.
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post #13 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
This is also invalid. The issue is not EFFICENCY. It is about design. Most multiple rail PSUs utilize one transformer to produce the 12v voltage. To follow ATX specs of less than 250w per wire (which is 12v@20.8A), PSU manufactors put in current limiting circuitry. So a PSU transformer may put out 32A but that is too much to follow ATX specs. Therefore, they split the rail. Therefore, the have two circuits which draw from the 32A pool but each rail will shut the PSU down if they draw over the 18A by design. There are dual 12v rails at 18A and have a total of 36A.

Single rails PSU allows user to utilize more of their PSU power since users do not have to worry about load balancing components on different rails.

I'm refering to efficiency of the design, not PSU efficiency (Like 80% efficiency... not that). ATX specs listed by intel hmm... want to link me to that? I'm fairly certain that Intel discretely dropped the 240W limit per rail a couple of years ago...

Or you might just maybe write to a PCP&C rep and ask them about it. That would probably net you an answer a little faster.
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post #14 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulTa View Post
So let's say you have two 12V rails (labeled 12V1 and 12V2) and they are both rated at 18A. Well unfortunately you don't have 36A on the 12V, since you lose a little power overall from having multiple rails. Your total Amps on the 12V would be about 30-32ish.
My issue is with the above statement. The explanation seemed to blame the issue on incorrect PSU specs. It is more of a design issue really. With two 12V@18A rails, you can have 36A on some PSUs. The PSU don't loose power due to the fact of multiple rails. What you do lose is the possible power utilization due to component load balancing. The total amperes on the 12v will still be 36A. It is just that you would have to carefully add components to ever utilize all the power.
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post #15 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
My issue is with the above statement. The explanation seemed to blame the issue on incorrect PSU specs. It is more of a design issue really. With two 12V@18A rails, you can have 36A on some PSUs. The PSU don't loose power due to the fact of multiple rails. What you do lose is the possible power utilization due to component load balancing. The total amperes on the 12v will still be 36A. It is just that you would have to carefully add components to ever utilize all the power.
It's not incorrect PSU specs, and I don't remember saying anything to that regard. I'm saying that for all practical purposes you might as well consider your multi-rail PSU as gimped by a couple of Amps for each extra rail you have.

I could go into a detailed explination of everything I know about PSUs with Mcogan, or I could just put it in easy to understand terms. I decided to go with option number 2 to save on time and head scratching.
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post #16 of 47
I've learned not to argue with Duckie. His knowledge of the force is just simply too strong.
    
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post #17 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heru View Post
I've learned not to argue with Duckie. His knowledge of the force is just simply too strong.
I'm not arguing with him, I'm trying to point out that him and I agree 100%! I just put it in different (and hopefully easier to understand) language.
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post #18 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulTa View Post
It's not incorrect PSU specs, and I don't remember saying anything to that regard. I'm saying that for all practical purposes you might as well consider your multi-rail PSU as gimped by a couple of Amps for each extra rail you have.

I could go into a detailed explination of everything I know about PSUs with Mcogan, or I could just put it in easy to understand terms. I decided to go with option number 2 to save on time and head scratching.
Yeah... but then... some people may get misguided and say that ALL multiple rail PSUs are lying and that they all are bad.

A recent article had the guys from PCP&C, Enermax, and OCZ talking about this issue. PCP&C said it was for more power utilization and their PSUs are stable enough. Enermax and OCZ said to reduce EMI and help prevent power overload from killing everything. Each have a valid point.
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post #19 of 47
I can see both sides of the coin, but I myself prefer a single rail PSU for better power utilization.

Glad that we could clear up the misunderstandings.
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post #20 of 47
Thread Starter 
i know what he was saying, duckie, hes just saying that you either lose amps from using a graphics card that doesnt use all the power, or you dont have enough power to power a big card - how many amps does a 2900xt, 8800GTS, and an 8800GTX use?
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