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My talk w/ Intel about TAT - Page 10

post #91 of 117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcogan10 View Post
maybe you should actually take down some notes when the call you instead of getting everyone excited by conjecture you might have heard...
Maybe you should have read my post's better..

The right info i have provided i backed up and the other info i said time and time again that i was not sure about... Don't go busting balls just b/c you didn't get what you wanted...



Some people were using TAT to find their max load temp, we know this give poor readings, for me i lost 6C from what i thought was my correct temp with TAT...cool...At my max oc i am well under 60C load...

This can still be nice for those who have higher temps from the start...3-6c loss in temps no one can complain about..

But we still haven't settled anything yet? really...

The whole point to this was to find out about TAT and see what software to use to monitor temps......TAT should not be used....CoreTemp works much better..some already knew this..

But what about the T_case?? I keep asking and no one responds to this...What software is reading the T_case temps??? Thats what Intel says we should go by when finding our max load temps...They never give DTS max info..They only give T_case max info...

Anyone have an answer for that? Mcogan?
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post #92 of 117
the t_case is probably just the tjunction (85c or 100c) - the DTS (found with the link you provided)
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post #93 of 117
Thermal Management Logic and Thermal Monitor Feature
Thermal and Mechanical Design Guidelines 39
4.2.10 Digital Thermal Sensor
The Intel® Core™2 Duo desktop processor E6000/E4000 sequence introduces the
Digital Thermal Sensor (DTS) as the on-die sensor to use for fan speed control (FSC).
The DTS will eventually replace the on-die thermal diode used in pervious products.
The Intel® Core™2 Duo desktop processor E6000/E4000 sequences will have both the
DTS and thermal diode enabled. The DTS is monitoring the same sensor that
activates the TCC (see Section 4.2.2). Readings from the DTS are relative to the
activation of the TCC. The DTS value where TCC activation occurs is 0 (zero).
The DTS can be accessed by two methods. The first is via a MSR. The value read via
the MSR is an unsigned number of degrees C away from TCC activation. The second
method which is expected to be the primary method for FSC is via the PECI interface.
The value of the DTS when read via the PECI interface is always negative and again is
degrees C away from TCC activation.
A TCONTROL value will be provided for use with DTS. The usage model for TCONTROL with
the DTS is the same as with the on-die thermal diode:
• If the Digital thermal sensor is less than TCONTROL, the fan speed can be reduced.
• If the Digital thermal sensor is greater than or equal to TCONTROL, then TC must be
maintained at or below the Thermal Profile for the measured power dissipation.
The calculation of TCONTROL is slightly different from previous product. There is no base
value to sum with the TOFFSET located in the same MSR as used in previous processors.
The BIOS only needs to read the TOFFSET MSR and provide this value to the fan speed
control device.
Figure 9. TCONTROL for Digital Thermal Sensor
Digital Thermometer Temperature
30
20
10
70
60
50
40
30
Tcontrol= 66
Tcontrol= -10
Fan Speed
Temperature
Time
Power
Thermal Diode Temperature
20
0
70
60
50
40
Tcontrol
Multiple digital thermal sensors can be implemented within the package without
adding a pair of signal pins per sensor as required with the thermal diode. The digital
thermal sensor is easier to place in thermally sensitive locations of the processor than
the thermal diode. This is achieved due to a smaller foot print and decreased
sensitivity to noise. Since the DTS is factory set on a per-part basis there is no need
for the health monitor components to be updated at each processor family.
Note: Intel® Core™2 Duo processor E6000 and E4000 sequences do not have an on-die
thermal diode. The TCONTROL in the MSR is relevant only to the DTS.



and we wonder how to measure accurately
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post #94 of 117
My version of TAT doesn't give me a TJunction reading...it doesn't even show the word "tjunction." Is something wrong with it?
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post #95 of 117
Get the newest version.
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post #96 of 117
post #97 of 117
Didnt have time to read the entire article, but ehre are Speedfan, TAT, and Intel Desktop temps in comparison on my XBX2 while SMP folding


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post #98 of 117
if your tJunct is 85 he says that TaT is accurate. If it's 100 then he says it's inaccurate and subtract 15c.

It's all very confusing, and even more confusing now that Everest is in the mix and some new calculation. Can someone clear this up sometime soon?
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post #99 of 117
steps to finding your true processor temp:
1. download coretemp and find your tjunction
2. download crystal cpuid: http://crystalmark.info/download/ind...l#CrystalCPUID
3. go to function>msr editor in crystal cpuid
4. in msr number, put 0x19c
5. click the rdmsr button, and translate the last 2 hexidecimal digits (not including the zeros at the end) into celcius degrees using a converter to find the DTS http://www.tonymarston.net/php-mysql/converter.php
6. subtract your DTS from the tjunction to get the true temp.
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post #100 of 117
Thread Starter 
Some time has passed since we have talked about C2D temp monitoring.. I have a little more info. from Intel.. I want some opinions please.

In short, Intel says T_case and DTS are unrelated.. They are not the same thing.. I figured this, but the arguement came up at some point so I asked... Also there is no Thermal Specification for DTS... Not yet anyway, doubt there will be.. So there is no "listed" DTS max.. We still have to go by the T_case max.. This is important b/c everyone reads their temps by DTS with TAT/CoreTemp.

I'm sure most of us could agree that T_case should read cooler than DTS.. But my question is 'What do you think that difference is?'.. A 5C, 10C difference?

With my own research, I think it is close to 7C.. DTS being 7C higher than T_case.. But this was my own testing with the IHS and my thermal sensor.. My thermal sensor reads 20C at IHS.. At the same time TAT/Coretemp read 31C.. Add about 2C or 3C to my 20C reading (b/c I'm reading from outside the IHS) that is about 23C, 8C lower that TAT/Coretemp, and 7C higher than Speedfan..

I think we still have around 8C to play with when it comes to temps.. I think that the recent 45C idle CPU's we have seen are probably more around 37C idle.. What do you guys think? An 8C difference sound about right?

A little more clear here..
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuNcHeR23 View Post
Using TAT/CoreTemp to monitor your temps makes very little sense.. Those programs read the DTS.. Intel has no DTS max guide line for us to follow... Instead they give us a max T_case value.. For the 4300's thats around 61C..

T_case from what I understand is read by SpeedFan.. Not under Core1/0 tho.. Those are reading the DTS.. Speedfan looks for a T_junction of 85C for Core1/0 but most 4300s are 100C T_junction and b/c of this the temp is about 15C off.. If you have a T_junction of 85C Speedfan and TAT/CoreTemp will read the same...

Back to Speedfan reading T_case.. From what I am told, Speedfan's reads T_case under "CPU".. But not for me.. For others it seems to.. I use Everest and I know for a fact it reads my IHS temp the same as my bios.... Try Everest and see what you think..
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