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Should we hesitate before recommending E4300/6320/6420?

post #1 of 30
Thread Starter 
I know Core 2 Duo is a great processor, but it seems like people are forgetting that each different model could be a completely different chip and have completely different capabilities and over-clocking ability.

I feel like people are running into threads, and recommending E4300/6320/6420 without any hard evidence supporting the claims of the over-clocking potential they have. I see people time after time saying, "Hey you can get an E4300 and over-clock it to 3.2-3.3 or 3.0 with 667 ram at stock settings", but when I look at over-clocking databases with 4300's and see a lot of people's threads about E4300's, it seems like the chip doesn't have higher than a half rate success over-clocking even to 3.0GHZ before heat issues or high voltage or instability.

With the 6320/6420 it's the same thing. I don't think it's fair that you guys are going around telling people to get a 6420/6320 because you want them to be an experiment to test the chip's over-clocking ability.

Hardware is not cheap. Telling someone to get a 6320/6420 because you want to see more over-clocking results with the chip isn't fair. Are you going to reimburse the person their 15% restocking fee when they have to RMA it because it can't even get 3.0GHZ stable and for the price they paid, they could've had 3.2-3.5GHZ stable on an E6300/6400?

Allendale E4300-
From what I've seen, most of the Allendales come with a badly shaped IHS surface and have a thermal pasted IHS instead of a soldered IHS like the E6300/6400/6600/Etc. What this leads to is very bad temperatures under over-clocking/stock speeds. I've seen people with as high as 65-70C load times at stock speeds with the E4300. Lapping an IHS or removing it throws your warranty out the window. People in the market deserve to know things like this. They also deserve to know that in order to hit higher than 2.7-2.8GHZ on an E4300, it's not as simple as having DDR2 667 ram and bumping the FSB to 333. A lot of people have to hit 1.4-1.45 voltage in order to even be OCCT stable for more than 5 minutes. 1.4-1.45 voltage on air cooling is potentially a 75-80C load temp, even with Arctic Silver 5.

Conroe E6320/6420-
Now this has me literally infuriated. People are literally walking in and directly comparing these to the E6300/6400 as a base for over-clocking potential. That's a badly done recommendation, entirely. An E6300 can hit as high as 3.2 GHZ on stock voltage, and can even be over-clocked to 2.8-2.9GHZ with lowered voltage. I've seen a guy with a 100% stable E6300 at 2.8GHZ with 1.26 voltage. The 6420? 2.96 highest stable on stock voltage. The 6320 was able to hit 3.29GHZ on stock voltage, but why such inconsistencies with a so-called younger Conroe architecture? Raising the Vcore as high as 1.6 increased the over-clocking headroom of the E6420 to 3.7GHZ, but the 6320 couldn't hit any higher than 3.29GHZ with 1.6 Voltage, so I really don't know what to think of these chips, but the only thing I can conclude is that they're nowhere near as solid as the E6300/6400/6600 Conroe.

Allendale 4400-
Just like the 4300, the Allendale 4400 could only hit 2.93GHZ on stock voltage, and even at a 1.6 voltage could only hit as high as 3.2GHZ. Just because some people think Core 2 Duo can handle 1.6 voltage fine, doesn't change what I've seen with my own eyes. I don't believe anything higher than 1.4 voltage is safe for a Conroe, it causes gradual wear and tear, which is worse in hardware because people tend to ignore "gradual" wear and tear. The 4400 also has high load temps, very relative to the E4300.

Here's an interesting quote from X-Bit labs:
Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Bit Labs
In other words, the overclocking result on Core 2 Duo E6420, E6320 or E4400 will have a lot to do with simple luck.
We shouldn't make recommendations on this forum based on "lucky results" guys or speculation.

So please, keep any recommendations of Allendale 4300/4400 Conroe 6320/6420 completely separate from any performance figures of the 6300/6400/6600, because initial reports and opinions from people that have bought them, show that there is a lot more "luck of the draw" with the 4300/4400/6320/6420 than actual reliable performance figures of the 6300/6400/6600.

In conclusion:
All I'm saying is, I don't believe the 4300/6320/6420 is an even comparison with the Conroe 6300/6400/6600 in over-clocking potential or stability.

I believe the 4300 is only a good option because of its price, but you should ALWAYS tell people about the over-clocking inconsistency, high temperature, bad IHS curved surface, thermal pasted IHS and let people know it's not as simple as articles say, to hit 3.0GHZ stable with this chip. A better bet is to count on 2.6-2.8 GHZ stable.

I believe the 6300/6400 is a more solid recommendation for someone who has $160 or more to spend on a processor and unless they do workstation applications or plan on running at stock speed, you shouldn't recommend the 6320/6420 over the 6300/6400, because if someone even plans on over-clocking mildly, they'll get more consistently better results with the 6300/6400 than the 6320/6420.
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post #2 of 30
So... There is no true ability of overclocking to 3.0 gHz, it's all about luck?


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post #3 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by DELL-HATER View Post
So... There is no true ability of overclocking to 3.0 gHz, it's all about luck?


DELL-HATER
He is saying that the E6x00 have much better overclocking tendencies than the E6xx0 and E4xx0 chips
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post #4 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DELL-HATER View Post
So... There is no true ability of overclocking to 3.0 gHz, it's all about luck?


DELL-HATER
It's more or less-
With the 4300/4400/6320/6420, there's too many people reporting that they can't get stable at or above 3.0GHZ, so it's too inconsistent to be thrown around the way people do in recommendations. People basically walk into threads and are like, "Yea get the 6320/6420 and u can hit 3.4GHZ on air" and they recommend a cooler, like it completely slipped their mind that it's NOT that simple to hit 3.4 on the newer Conroes.

Basically, there's no guarantee to hit 3.0 or higher with the 6320/6420, whereas with the 6300/6400, all you need is ram that can handle the FSB and you can hit 3.4 stable easily on air + AS5.
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post #5 of 30
All good points, though I somewhat disagree regarding the 4300. While it might not have a 100% success rate OC'ing to 3GHz, it's a proven OC'er whether it's only to 2.7GHz--which is a good OC--66%. Just because some people can hit 3GHz, doesn't mean everyone will--but they all do OC fairly well to some extent past 2.5GHz. But nothing is 100% certain, so that's reason enough to be wary.

But I completely agree with the xx20 sentiment--they're new processors, however much similar to their xx00 counterparts, they're not the same, and therefore cannot be treated as such. Also, I have heard of quite a few batches of the 6320's that are awful OC'ers. I would not recommend one to someone over a 6300. And 4mb cache? Big deal--applications now don't even fully use 1mb cache per core let alone 4mb shared (aside from benchies like superpi)--hell, people are playing new games on frickin Semprons with 256k cache for chrissake. So, yeah, sorry for that little rant, but I see no reason to convince someone to buy a xx20 at this point.
    
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post #6 of 30
Oh, wow,

sorry, don't see that.
Thank you very much!

As alway, NamelessMC, keep up the good work!


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post #7 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessMC View Post
It's more or less-
With the 4300/4400/6320/6420, there's too many people reporting that they can't get stable at or above 3.0GHZ, so it's too inconsistent to be thrown around the way people do in recommendations. People basically walk into threads and are like, "Yea get the 6320/6420 and u can hit 3.4GHZ on air" and they recommend a cooler, like it completely slipped their mind that it's NOT that simple to hit 3.4 on the newer Conroes.

Basically, there's no guarantee to hit 3.0 or higher with the 6320/6420, whereas with the 6300/6400, all you need is ram that can handle the FSB and you can hit 3.4 stable easily on air + AS5.
But there's also no guarantee that one will always hit 3GHz with a 6300/6400 even with top-of-the-line RAM and mobo's--the stepping of the CPU is important, though perhaps there are more good 6300/6400 steppings than bad steppings. But there's no guarantee that everyone with a 6300 and a good mobo will hit 3GHz. It's likely, but not a guarantee.
    
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post #8 of 30
They OC worse because of "revisions."

99% of the time, as it has happened over and over, earlier weeks/steppings OC far better than later ones. Happens almost 100% of the time.

I got a nice clocker, 'specially for an A instead of a "B", but it still runs damn hot. I had to up to 3.8Ghz on air to boot into XP, just the TForce couldn't run a big enough divider on my RAM and spat errors at me. Don't see that happening on any newer ones.

Some come with bad IHS. Has nothing really to do with the version of C2D's you get.
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post #9 of 30
One thing I have learned (being relatively new to OCN) is:

TAKE EVERYTHING WITH A GRAIN OF SALT.

Do your own research, google, search other forums, always get a second opinion or see the opposing view.
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post #10 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pook View Post
They OC worse because of "revisions."

99% of the time, as it has happened over and over, earlier weeks/steppings OC far better than later ones. Happens almost 100% of the time.

Some come with bad IHS. Has nothing really to do with the version of C2D's you get.
I completely agree. Plus with the E6320s and E6420s, twice as much cache. 4MB of cache at that price point is nothing to snuff at.

/prepares for MC flaming
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