Overclock.net › Forums › Intel › Intel - General › Should we hesitate before recommending E4300/6320/6420?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Should we hesitate before recommending E4300/6320/6420? - Page 3

post #21 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post
Yes you did. Here's a quote from your previous post:



It's right there in bold--you're implying that any 6300/6400 will hit 3.4GHz with good RAM and mobo
No, that's not the same thing I was saying. You're manipulating my words and confirming why I think the general attitude of this forum is gradually getting worse and worse. People don't even take reviews seriously anymore. Everyone just slaps the Intel and Nvidia name around everywhere without really digging deeply into the purpose/goals of posters.

It's a FACT that the 6300/6400 have better over-clocking results than the 6320/6420.

It's a rarity that a 6300/6400 has bad over-clocking potential. The_Pook, you don't even realize you validated my claim yourself. You have a 6300 with A stepping that over-clocks well. Doesn't that validate the fact that 6300/6400 have better consistency in over-clocking even more, if you can have a bad week 6300 that can still over-clock well?

It's just as much a rarity with the 6320/6420, only instead of being bad, it's good. It's hard to find people with consistent 6320/6420 over-clocking results, and the whole point of OCN is potential of over-clocked products.

Sure, clock for clock an E4400 goes toe to toe with a 6300/6400, and gets very close to the results of a 6320. At stock speeds, you could safely say, "Hey the E4400 is a better buy. It's $140 and gives you the performance of a $180-200 chip!" But the E4400 also tops out at 2.9-3.2GHZ, whereas most people with 6300/6400 can hit 3.2GHZ on stock voltage and at 1.4 voltage can hit 3.4-3.5GHZ. "MOST PEOPLE" not all.

So if it's such a rarity to find a BAD over-clocking 6300/6400, and such a rarity to find a GOOD over-clocking 4300/4400/6320/6420, where's the justification in linking the two on performance potential?
Reaper 1.0
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
*TBD ASRock 775Dual-VSTA *TBD* *TBD* 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSPower
WD 40GB 7200SATA / 80G Maxtor IDE 18x CDRW Windows XP SP2 / Fedora 64 / Vista 64 *TBD* 
CaseMouse
Cooler Master RC-330 Elite Microsoft Intellimouse USB 
  hide details  
Reply
Reaper 1.0
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
*TBD ASRock 775Dual-VSTA *TBD* *TBD* 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSPower
WD 40GB 7200SATA / 80G Maxtor IDE 18x CDRW Windows XP SP2 / Fedora 64 / Vista 64 *TBD* 
CaseMouse
Cooler Master RC-330 Elite Microsoft Intellimouse USB 
  hide details  
Reply
post #22 of 30
4mb cache chips aren't going to overclock as well, its pretty well known. You have just as much proof against the chip as there is for, so theres no definitive answer.

I think pooks chip is a week 28 or something...and early weeks do really well on the Overclocking.
Kopisaurus
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 2500k @ 5ghz 1.395v Gigabyte P67A-UD3P-B3 ATI HD6950 2GB (flashed --> 6970) 16GB Gskill Sniper 1600mhz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
500gb WD Black / 2x 1TB WD Black RAID1 LG DVD/RW Super Multi Windows 7 Enterprise x64 ASUS ML239H 23" LED  
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G15 (modded) Corsair TV750W V2 Lian-Li Lancool PC-K62B Logitech G5 
  hide details  
Reply
Kopisaurus
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 2500k @ 5ghz 1.395v Gigabyte P67A-UD3P-B3 ATI HD6950 2GB (flashed --> 6970) 16GB Gskill Sniper 1600mhz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
500gb WD Black / 2x 1TB WD Black RAID1 LG DVD/RW Super Multi Windows 7 Enterprise x64 ASUS ML239H 23" LED  
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G15 (modded) Corsair TV750W V2 Lian-Li Lancool PC-K62B Logitech G5 
  hide details  
Reply
post #23 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessMC View Post
Yeah, but that doesn't account for the average over-clock of a 6300/6420 versus the average over-clock of a 6320/6420.

We only have ONE legit review of the 6x20 and in that review, the 6320 caps out at 3.29GHZ even with 1.6 voltage, and the 6420 needs 1.6 voltage to go beyond 3.2GHZ. Way too huge of an inconsistency.

The bottom line is, people are riding the coat tails of Intel/Core 2 Duo, and acting like the faults of the 6x20 initial and current batches are "minor" and still recommend the chip.

Where's the justification in that? The 6320 is NOT the same as a 6300 with larger L2 cache. All it has in common is the architecture and name.
You said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessMC View Post
Show me a gaming benchmark where the 6320/6420 at the same speed as a 6300/6400, scores higher.

Do it, I dare you.
I did.
It wins.
You did not mention overclocking as max headroom.

Yes, they usually OC lower, but the new week Core 2 Duos aren't shining OCing champions either.

Not to mention, 2MB cache equates to 200Mhz on Core 2 Duos - there are many reviews that state that ballpark figure. You mention 3Ghz is the max (which, is also a ballpark figure, but it seems to be the minimum. Lots here are getting 3.2 - 3.3) on the 4MB versions, so you'd need a 3.3Ghz E6300 to tie with a 3Ghz E6320.

All fine and dandy, 3.3Ghz isn't a stretch for the processor, but for the motherboard, not everything can do 500FSB to totally dominate the E6320.

That's comparing a nice E6300 week on a nice motherboard on some nice RAM against a a poor E6320. Most do get at least 3.2Ghz, saying 3Ghz is the max is stretching it quite a bit.
2 OP pls nerf
(12 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 6400 Skylake Asus Z170-E ATX Asus GTX 1060 6GB GeIL 8GB DDR4 3600 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Sandisk 480GB SSD Western Digital EZRX 3TB Cryorig H7 Windows 10 Pro x64 
PowerAudioAudioAudio
Silverstone 500w Gold Lepai LP-2020A+ AudioSource LS100 Polk Audio PSW111 
  hide details  
Reply
2 OP pls nerf
(12 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 6400 Skylake Asus Z170-E ATX Asus GTX 1060 6GB GeIL 8GB DDR4 3600 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Sandisk 480GB SSD Western Digital EZRX 3TB Cryorig H7 Windows 10 Pro x64 
PowerAudioAudioAudio
Silverstone 500w Gold Lepai LP-2020A+ AudioSource LS100 Polk Audio PSW111 
  hide details  
Reply
post #24 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessMC View Post
It's a rarity that a 6300/6400 has bad over-clocking potential. The_Pook, you don't even realize you validated my claim yourself. You have a 6300 with A stepping that over-clocks well. Doesn't that validate the fact that 6300/6400 have better consistency in over-clocking even more, if you can have a bad week 6300 that can still over-clock well?
I validated your point?
You said E6320s overclock poorly because of different architecture.

My E6300 OCs nicely because it's an early week.
There is no such thing as an early E6320.

So not only would validating your point with what I said be stupid, it'd be impossible.
2 OP pls nerf
(12 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 6400 Skylake Asus Z170-E ATX Asus GTX 1060 6GB GeIL 8GB DDR4 3600 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Sandisk 480GB SSD Western Digital EZRX 3TB Cryorig H7 Windows 10 Pro x64 
PowerAudioAudioAudio
Silverstone 500w Gold Lepai LP-2020A+ AudioSource LS100 Polk Audio PSW111 
  hide details  
Reply
2 OP pls nerf
(12 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 6400 Skylake Asus Z170-E ATX Asus GTX 1060 6GB GeIL 8GB DDR4 3600 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Sandisk 480GB SSD Western Digital EZRX 3TB Cryorig H7 Windows 10 Pro x64 
PowerAudioAudioAudio
Silverstone 500w Gold Lepai LP-2020A+ AudioSource LS100 Polk Audio PSW111 
  hide details  
Reply
post #25 of 30
Hmm... I wasn't aware of this when I bought my E6320. I just thought, well, it's a conroe so it must kick ass. And indeed it has, 3Ghz @ 1.24v, limited by my ram. Also I have not tried lower on the voltage, that's just what I picked and it works.

Guess I got lucky
Main Rig
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500K Asus P8P67 EVO GTX 980 16GB DDR3 1866mhz 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Revodrive 3 x2 240GB, M500 960GB, 2x WD 1TB Rai... Noctua NH-D14 Windows 10 Apple Cinema 30" 1600p 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech Orion Spark Capstone 750w CM Storm Scout Logitech G700s 
  hide details  
Reply
Main Rig
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500K Asus P8P67 EVO GTX 980 16GB DDR3 1866mhz 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Revodrive 3 x2 240GB, M500 960GB, 2x WD 1TB Rai... Noctua NH-D14 Windows 10 Apple Cinema 30" 1600p 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech Orion Spark Capstone 750w CM Storm Scout Logitech G700s 
  hide details  
Reply
post #26 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pook View Post
I validated your point?
You said E6320s overclock poorly because of different architecture.

My E6300 OCs nicely because it's an early week.
There is no such thing as an early E6320.

So not only would validating your point with what I said be stupid, it'd be impossible.
Where did I say it was different architecture?

It's the same architecture, I just don't think the 6320's or 6420's over-clock as well.

Also, the 200mhz claim on 4mb compared to 2mb is very circumstantial. On some benchmarks, the 6320 is even with the 6400, but it's not EVERY benchmark. In some benchmarks the 6400 is still faster.
Reaper 1.0
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
*TBD ASRock 775Dual-VSTA *TBD* *TBD* 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSPower
WD 40GB 7200SATA / 80G Maxtor IDE 18x CDRW Windows XP SP2 / Fedora 64 / Vista 64 *TBD* 
CaseMouse
Cooler Master RC-330 Elite Microsoft Intellimouse USB 
  hide details  
Reply
Reaper 1.0
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
*TBD ASRock 775Dual-VSTA *TBD* *TBD* 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSPower
WD 40GB 7200SATA / 80G Maxtor IDE 18x CDRW Windows XP SP2 / Fedora 64 / Vista 64 *TBD* 
CaseMouse
Cooler Master RC-330 Elite Microsoft Intellimouse USB 
  hide details  
Reply
post #27 of 30
Nameless MC, have you ever seen a conroe/allendale or do you just scour the posts for numbers to back your theories (and think thats all the numbers there is)
post #28 of 30
I know that I already recommended a 6320 over a 6300 and 6420 over a 6400, just because of the fact that you were getting double the L2 cache for like $1 more.

I didn't say anything about OCing potential though (since I didn't know enough about it).

I always thought they were the same chip w/ different amounts of cache? Why are the 20 series so bad at OCing?
post #29 of 30
http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/...c-voltage.html

Not sure on the 6320's yet (only one entry in the thread, but at 3.1x it beat 3 of the 6300's that were only 2.8)
BUT the 6420's are doing decent clocks (a bit more voltage, but double l2), with the max oc being 4ghz by a 6420:

E6400:
L626A boead 3.2@1.45
L629A monisriz 3.2@1.38
L629B Madmax22 3.85@???
L631B PDPSystems 3.2@1.175 3.6@1.332 3.8@1.398
L633a CravinR1 3.2@1.3 3.4@1.35 3.6@1.4
L633B Xecuter2 3.5@1.425 bios, 1.39 measured
L639A pheoxs 3.0@1.34 bios, 1.325 measured


E6420:
L630B khurios 3.5@1.35 4@1.585
L645G ckp64 3.6@1.575
L646G bluedevil 3.6@1.5
L646G pjlietz 3.5@1.48
L646G cyant 3.52@1.52 bios, 1.48 actual
L649g sam95ta 3.1@1.31
L704A ocelot11 3.2@1.35 set
L709A NCSpecV81 3.4@1.36
post #30 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessMC View Post
No, that's not the same thing I was saying. You're manipulating my words and confirming why I think the general attitude of this forum is gradually getting worse and worse. People don't even take reviews seriously anymore. Everyone just slaps the Intel and Nvidia name around everywhere without really digging deeply into the purpose/goals of posters.

It's a FACT that the 6300/6400 have better over-clocking results than the 6320/6420.

It's a rarity that a 6300/6400 has bad over-clocking potential. The_Pook, you don't even realize you validated my claim yourself. You have a 6300 with A stepping that over-clocks well. Doesn't that validate the fact that 6300/6400 have better consistency in over-clocking even more, if you can have a bad week 6300 that can still over-clock well?

It's just as much a rarity with the 6320/6420, only instead of being bad, it's good. It's hard to find people with consistent 6320/6420 over-clocking results, and the whole point of OCN is potential of over-clocked products.

Sure, clock for clock an E4400 goes toe to toe with a 6300/6400, and gets very close to the results of a 6320. At stock speeds, you could safely say, "Hey the E4400 is a better buy. It's $140 and gives you the performance of a $180-200 chip!" But the E4400 also tops out at 2.9-3.2GHZ, whereas most people with 6300/6400 can hit 3.2GHZ on stock voltage and at 1.4 voltage can hit 3.4-3.5GHZ. "MOST PEOPLE" not all.

So if it's such a rarity to find a BAD over-clocking 6300/6400, and such a rarity to find a GOOD over-clocking 4300/4400/6320/6420, where's the justification in linking the two on performance potential?
Dude, look, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth, but after reading what you wrote, that's exactly what you said--basically what you're saying is that any E6300/6400 with good RAM and mobo can be taken up to 3.4GHz easy whereas it's harder to take a E6x20 up to 3GHz. If you didn't mean to say that, then you should have used better wording.

Now, I'm not going to disagree with you--the numbers don't lie, and of the 6x00's that are in use, they have been shown to have more that overclock better--but don't you think it's prudent to wait for more people to use the 6x20's before making generalization that they won't overclock more? I'd bet that out of all the Core 2 Duo users out there, much less than 10% are of the 6x20 series. Give it time. Perhaps the first few batches suck in comparison to later revisions. I mean, the 6x00's are a year old, and there's room to make generalizations based on numbers, but there are some steppings that don't OC well. But the 6x20's are only a month out--no one can make predictions based on batches now, one way or the other. The first batches might suck, but the next might get to 4GHz easy (well, probably not). Though again, I agree with you--there's no room to make suggestions for the 6x20's if overclocking is a concern because there aren't enough numbers to make stats that make sense. But not everyone wants to buy a 6x20 for the sake of overclocking, so $1 for twice the cache is a good buy regardless of how well it overclocks. That's the gist.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K Biostar TP67B+ XFX HD5750 1GB 2x4GB DDR3 Corsair 1600 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
60GB OCZ SSD, 2x160GB HDD RAID0, 500GB+500GB+1.5TB Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit Samsung SyncMaster 930B Antec SmartPower 450w 
Case
Antec 900 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K Biostar TP67B+ XFX HD5750 1GB 2x4GB DDR3 Corsair 1600 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
60GB OCZ SSD, 2x160GB HDD RAID0, 500GB+500GB+1.5TB Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit Samsung SyncMaster 930B Antec SmartPower 450w 
Case
Antec 900 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Intel - General
Overclock.net › Forums › Intel › Intel - General › Should we hesitate before recommending E4300/6320/6420?