Originally Posted by NuclearCrap
We all know that pre-overclocked GTX = Ultra so don't bother pulling the price argument into this. Let's take some real world pricing, using Newegg as reference.
Cheapest 8800GTS 640MB, $359.99
Cheapest HD 2900XT, $409.99
Cheapest 8800GTX, $549.99
Can you confirm that the 1GB model will cost $409.99? It'd be at least $50 more, GDDR4 isn't cheap, and even if it is as cheap as GDDR3, it still has twice the amount so the price will go accordingly. I can't help it if you have to take it as legit just because it favors the 2900 a bit. Comparing with the people in the top 30 would not work, every setup varies, hence why there is a 8800GTS rig, a SLI 7900GT rig, and multiple 8800GTX rigs beating a 8800Ultra rig.
I understand that the Ultra is, in essence, a pre-overclocked GTX. However, it is being marketed as nVIDIA's top end graphics card, therefore it would be prudent to bench ATi's top end card against the Ultra. Otherwise, some may argue that the comparison was biased because ViperJohn compared ATi's top end card to nVIDIA's lower end card. However, if we agree that the GTX and the Ultra are the same in every aspect aside to maybe a slight change in the card BIOS, then we can compare the price of the GTX to the 1GB XT.
I cannot confirm that the 1GB XT will cost $409.99, I cannot confirm anything. However, I agree that it will most probably and up costing a bit more expensive than the current 512MB XT. If we assume the price is $50 higher, it still puts the 1GB XT under the price for a GTX. (As you can see, ATi has $140 to play with before they reach GTX prices, according to Newegg.)
I take the article as legit because it, at least to me, seems fair to both sides. ViperJohn has modded both cards and fitted them with the same cooling solution, which seems fair. He has pushed the Ultra to remarkably high speeds (higher than any of OCN's GTXs/Ultras according to the Top 30, which I will use to compare these cards. However, if one uses the Official GTX/GTS OC thread, he still has the highest core clock, and the second highest memory clock. (Losing only to you, nice OC. )
), and he has also overclocked the 1GB XT. I very kindly ask you to point out where there seems to be any favoritism or bias.
I must disagree with you, however, concerning whether or not one may use OCN's Top 30 list to compare the cards. The only purpose of using the Top 30 is to put ViperJohn's scores into perspective. He used the same setup sans GPU to compare the cards, so would it not be fair to use OCN's standard to compare the two setups? Is it wrong to provide the other members with an idea as to how well ViperJohn's scores scale according to their own? It is common knowledge that every setup varies, which is why we have a Top 30 list in the first place. My intention was to display the results in a way which would illustrate what ViperJohn's finding meant, to show OCN members what to expect from the benchmarked cards.
As an aside, CoolIT
is releasing a 2900XT cooling solution which offers a core clock of 950Mhz, comparable to ViperJohn's 985Mhz without his hardmods (ViperJohn is famous for his excellent hardmod work, however, I am not 100% certain his XT is hardmodded, despite the fact that two potentiometers are visible in his photos of the XT.) CoolIT cannot match his memory clocks, but this is most certainly because they are using GDDR3. I imagine at this point that it is common knowedge that GDDR4 runs at higher frequencies at about the same insignificant thermal levels to GDDR3, meaning it is quite possible for the CoolIT solution to match ViperJohn's memory clocks on the 1GB XT. This means that there is the possibility that a pre-overclocked 1GB XT will be available to the enthusiast community at clockspeeds comparable to card which received a hardmod. Given that the modded 1GB XT is already closely trailing the modded Ultra, this leaves the possibility that the modded version of the CoolIT card may beat the modded Ultra. But this is assuming CoolIT is being honest and realistic with their market clocks, and that there is any headroom left in the XT.
If I have misinterpreted any of your points, please point me in the right direction.