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Wii outselling PS3 in Japan five-to-one - Page 12

post #111 of 120
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Originally Posted by Oldboy View Post
Hmmm so Sony has to make the PS4 to compete with their new Xbox....Last i looked the PS2 was still selling more games than the Wii, PS3, and 360...Yet they still need to answer the 360 when a 6 year old console is still kicking that much ass....come on it's a fact that once you ahve the install base, you can go alot longer if you support it with quality games, which Sony and other companies have yet to even lift the pedal from the floor....
If you believe that, then why is there a PS3? If the PS2 is still the #1 game seller, and nothing else matters, why put themselves through a console release right now? The answer is, of course, that they have to. You can't just let your competition do things newer and better than your product does, even if you would rather let the status quo remain for a long time. That's the whole basis of competition.

So when Microsoft releases an XBox III, make no mistake, a PS4 will be right there too, whether Sony thinks the PS3 is a dead system yet or not.

Quote:
The reason that the PS3 would sell to people wanting BR, is the fact it does all these others things, and is basically the same price....Which would be smarter, a BR only, or an all around player that does everything well(games, web, photos, movies, music, Home...).
Again, smarter is in the eye of the beholder. You're still viewing this through your personal lens. There are a hella lot of people that want their movie player to just be a dedicated player, just like every other audio-video component they own. Whether there is a perception that a dedicated player does it better, or whether they just hate the way the PS3 looks compared to dedicated players, or any other number of reasons...these folks don't give one rat dropping about being able to play games. Until provided with hard facts proving otherwise, I stand by my assertion that that the number of people who don't care about gaming at all and only want a Blu-Ray player, and buy the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player first and all other features aside, is very small compared to those that are buying a game console that just happens to have a HR player. And it will dwindle to almost nothing now that dedicated players are cheaper.

Quote:
It's the same exact reason alot of people here want to spend $600 on the Iphone, yet the iphone doesn't really have an advantage overs it's competition when it comes to hardware and software which the PS3 does.
Well, that's a different mind set that what I thought you were describing. The driving factor behind iPhone adoption is going to be the "cool" factor. The PS3 market has already exploited the market of people that think it's cool.

I do think that the iPhone has some more going for it that you give credit, though. The touch screen and software actually are very different than competing phones, although I hear Microsoft and HP have announced something similar already.

Quote:
No the PS2 would actual be since it Surfed the Web, Played DVDs, Games, and so on. It did alot more and is why the 360 and PS3 have a ton more features besides gaming, and the people want these features.
Hmm. By definition, multimedia = multiple medias. Games plus music CDs = two media...multimedia...

Quote:
Yet the Wii doesn't do anything well, the Game you put into the Wii does it well(well you say they are good....). The controls are annoying for the wii, and get boring extremely fast when you aren't with a group of people. So all the console does is play boring games that are good multiplayer games....
Again, you're arguing your beliefs as if they are the One Truth. My "generalization" is about the overall perception and reality of these topics. What you're calling boring and annoying, I call fun. Clearly more people agree with me than you...you can rant and rave at me all you want on these forums, but sales figures do not lie. The Wii owns, both currently and historically. The PS3 is dead last, both currently and historically. Take off your "OldBoy Likes His PS3" glasses for a second and try to recognize these facts. Here, I'll show you how:

Hi, my name is Vulcan, and I have a PSP. I like it. That doesn't change the fact that it is a total sales laggard, the game library kind of bites, the analog control kind of blows, load times are like watching grass grow, and the UMD format was a sick joke played upon the world.

See how easy it is to own something and still not be blinded to truth by that ownership?
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post #112 of 120
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Originally Posted by VulcanDragon View Post
Yep, I get Sony's grand plan. And I also get that there are a few of you who have embraced Sony's grand plan wholeheartedly. But what I keep coming back to is that you guys are the minority. Sony spent 10 years beating into the world's brain that the Playstation was the best game console around...and now they're trying to turn the message into something else: that it's not a game console, it's a media center. The masses either simply don't care, or are at best confused by this new marketing strategy. They still see the Playstation as a game console, and all of that value-added stuff doesn't make sense to most people. The brand they built up cannot be changed into something else just because they want to...Playstation = games, just like Kleenex = tissues and Frisbee = flying disc.
The PS3 is still a console, and like you said they had to work hard to get it where it is in the collective consciousness, but Sony is choosing now to start marketing it as something more than a console. Their ultimate aim? Damned if I know, they could have done quite happily as just a console, perhaps they should have. I can however see why they are choosing now to change direction with it; this is the dawn of the HD age. I know plenty of people who bought a HD-TV to be "future proof" and have never even used it with a HD source! I suspect Sony planned to capitalize on this and sell the ultimate HD solution off the back of the Playstation brand. People who wanted the final piece of their home cinema and a console for the kids to boot would be clamoring for the PS3 like no other player, BD or HD-DVD. Hell, it even seems like a good plan to me if you look at it that way.

As it happens, things didn't turn quite as they planned, and we may never know why *cough*$599*hack*. There is still a chance that things could turn around for the PS3, with an overdue price-cut and a few exclusives under its belt, maybe it will follow Sony's plan and become the media hub in every living-room. Maybe ten years from now, Playstation will become synonymous with media center.

Maybe...

Quote:
Does that mean that some games will have trouble? Probably, especially Kojima. That guy's got some sort of moral opposition to compression, or something. I'm sure someone could make a version of Super Mario Bros that wouldn't fit on a DVD if they went to riduclous lengths...used 32-bit textures large enough for wall posters, used super-duper 14.2 THX II uncompressed audio, yada yada yada. But personally, I think that's all just silly. It's not going to enhance the game as much as he thinks it will...he's just being an "artist" in that regard. I can respect his artistic vision, but I don't respect bloatware. Everytime Microsoft tells us we need higher system specs to run Windows, Bill Gates gets attacked for forcing bloatware on us. Why aren't people like Kojima held to those same standards?
Without seeing Kojima's vision in action, I don't think we can really comment on how effective it will be. If I absolutely had to bet, I'd be with you saying it's unnecessary, but I've got faith in the man and we should wait and see what he can do. Seeing as he now has access to the capacity of Blu-ray I see no problem with him taking advantage of it unlike Gates actually forcing an upgrade.

Quote:
Also, when did people become so averse to switching a disc every 10 hours of gameplay or so? Man, that's silly at best, whining at worst. As long as you don't have to constantly keep swapping discs as you go from place to place, what's the big deal? If my generation were such crybabies about this sort of thing, we wouldn't even have a lot of game franchises right now. Cripes, Ultima 5 was four double sided floppies that we had to swap out every time we entered a town, entered a dungeon, etc. Modern games ask you to put in the next disc after you've been playing for ten hours, and you never need the old disc again...boo frickin hoo.
Being a veteran of the PS1 Final Fantasies, I also have no problem with switching out disks every few hours; had the PS2 been able to handle them, I would be quite happy with higher-res textures at the expense of swapping disks half way through FFXII, even three or four times! The same applies to all games with any semblance of linearity; Doom, FEAR, Half Life, Halo etc will happily fit on single or multiple DVDs for the foreseeable future and consumers take the occasional disk change in their stride - if they whine about it they don't deserve the game.

The problem comes with open ended games; remember the 5-10 second loading times between islands on GTA 3 and Vice City? Come GTA 5 (or GTA IV: Vice City 2 if you want...) what if each island fills up a disk (or near enough) and the loading times are replaced with disk changes? What if the player is required to endure 3 disk changes through the course of a single mission? I would see gamers being far less forgiving in that scenario. Even if you enjoyed Ultima 5, I wonder how much you could enjoy a fast paced street race with 3 disk changes? Sure, mission design could be changed to minimize disk swaps, but wouldn't you loose a bit of the epic feel of a cross state car chase?

At this point, even pre-installing large amounts of data on a HDD would be difficult. Hypothetically, if GTA V takes up 2 DVDs, one for each island and its associated missions, mini-games and local radio. To get a disk swap free game you would be asking an average (premium system owning) player to save up to 9GB to their HDD when they only 13GB accessible, not counting downloaded maps, music and saves. Needless to say this is completely unacceptable and placing a "120GB HDD required" sticker on the game would be the death of it. Maybe a DVD could take the strain if there are major cutbacks in visual quality and extra content, but you know theres a problem when you have to ask the consumer; "Do you want the game to look fugly or have to disk swap every half hour?".

Of course, this is only ever going to affect open ended games.
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post #113 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanDragon View Post
If you believe that, then why is there a PS3? If the PS2 is still the #1 game seller, and nothing else matters, why put themselves through a console release right now? The answer is, of course, that they have to. You can't just let your competition do things newer and better than your product does, even if you would rather let the status quo remain for a long time. That's the whole basis of competition.

So when Microsoft releases an XBox III, make no mistake, a PS4 will be right there too, whether Sony thinks the PS3 is a dead system yet or not.



Again, smarter is in the eye of the beholder. You're still viewing this through your personal lens. There are a hella lot of people that want their movie player to just be a dedicated player, just like every other audio-video component they own. Whether there is a perception that a dedicated player does it better, or whether they just hate the way the PS3 looks compared to dedicated players, or any other number of reasons...these folks don't give one rat dropping about being able to play games. Until provided with hard facts proving otherwise, I stand by my assertion that that the number of people who don't care about gaming at all and only want a Blu-Ray player, and buy the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player first and all other features aside, is very small compared to those that are buying a game console that just happens to have a HR player. And it will dwindle to almost nothing now that dedicated players are cheaper.



Well, that's a different mind set that what I thought you were describing. The driving factor behind iPhone adoption is going to be the "cool" factor. The PS3 market has already exploited the market of people that think it's cool.

I do think that the iPhone has some more going for it that you give credit, though. The touch screen and software actually are very different than competing phones, although I hear Microsoft and HP have announced something similar already.



Hmm. By definition, multimedia = multiple medias. Games plus music CDs = two media...multimedia...



Again, you're arguing your beliefs as if they are the One Truth. My "generalization" is about the overall perception and reality of these topics. What you're calling boring and annoying, I call fun. Clearly more people agree with me than you...you can rant and rave at me all you want on these forums, but sales figures do not lie. The Wii owns, both currently and historically. The PS3 is dead last, both currently and historically. Take off your "OldBoy Likes His PS3" glasses for a second and try to recognize these facts. Here, I'll show you how:

Hi, my name is Vulcan, and I have a PSP. I like it. That doesn't change the fact that it is a total sales laggard, the game library kind of bites, the analog control kind of blows, load times are like watching grass grow, and the UMD format was a sick joke played upon the world.

See how easy it is to own something and still not be blinded to truth by that ownership?

Obviously you are against Sony in gaming if you believe the PSP doesn't have a great library these days by generalizing it according to past media suggestions, though you should go look and you will see a ton of awesome titles out now and coming out that are better than anything the DS could even handle... Then again that is your opinion and not mine or a majority of the other PSP owners. YOUR overall perception basically says there is nothign going for the PS3 except Games, therefore that is what people buy it for. Your comment on the music cds being multimedia is ignorant, NO ONE bought it for it's ability to play music cds, nor did 99.9 percent of the owners even use it... I never said that there isn't people that want only a dedicated player. Obviously there are those adults that want a great movie theater like experience therefore get the dedicated players. Though the PS3's player is pretty good and up to snuff. Of course there will be new things that they can't redesign the PS3 to include but the dedicated players will and they will have an edge there. The Iphone is nothing new, and is only about the "look" and style. I would also say that yes the PS3 was the same thing at launch. It was the "IT" console, though the following month the Wii became the "IT" console because of it's gimmicks. Also i would have waited even longer to release the PS3. One make the graphics even better, say add a 2900 type chip inside, and work more on the Cell. Then give tutorials to third party companies so that they want to work with it and you, instead of just taking their money for the rights and running. Also would have finished up Home, so that it was running at launch, along with a great lineup. The PS2 is one of the most dominating pieces of hardware in the history of the world, and i would have rode that atleast until this fall maybe even next spring....The PS3's prices would have been cheaper upon release, and more developed....

Also where did i ever say i owned anything, let alone a PS3?
post #114 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesusofwales View Post
The PS3 is still a console, and like you said they had to work hard to get it where it is in the collective consciousness, but Sony is choosing now to start marketing it as something more than a console.
Yep, and that's the crux of my main PS3 complaints. While I have to admit that it's their brand and they have the perogative to do whatever they want with it, if I were a shareholder I would be downright furious that Sony has introduced all of this confusion into the brand. I'm not suggesting that Sony shouldn't be trying to sell media centers, or even that they might have PS3 functionality built in...but turning the established game console brand, which was by far the leading brand, into something else confuses customers, lowers sales, and reduces shareholder value.

And this is where I usually transition into the "Sony was arrogant" argument. They assumed they could shift a jillion PS3s without even trying, even if they jacked up the price to make it a media center. In the past I've compared this to Microsoft bundling Internet Explorer in Windows 95, basically "forcing" everyone to have a copy of IE. Ten years ago, this kind of software bundling landed you in court; but in 2006, hardware bundling is labeled as "convergence" and trumpeted as being good? I have a hard time seeing the difference.

Quote:
As it happens, things didn't turn quite as they planned, and we may never know why *cough*$599*hack*. There is still a chance that things could turn around for the PS3, with an overdue price-cut and a few exclusives under its belt, maybe it will follow Sony's plan and become the media hub in every living-room. Maybe ten years from now, Playstation will become synonymous with media center.
Maybe not synonymous with "media center", but they will definitely get it turned around. I can't imagine there won't be at least one price cut by Xmas, and the games will finally start coming out. Me, I'm getting mine when FF13 comes out (since it's now official that it won't be going to the X360) and there has been at least one price cut.

Quote:
The problem comes with open ended games; remember the 5-10 second loading times between islands on GTA 3 and Vice City? Come GTA 5 (or GTA IV: Vice City 2 if you want...) what if each island fills up a disk (or near enough) and the loading times are replaced with disk changes? What if the player is required to endure 3 disk changes through the course of a single mission? I would see gamers being far less forgiving in that scenario. Even if you enjoyed Ultima 5, I wonder how much you could enjoy a fast paced street race with 3 disk changes? Sure, mission design could be changed to minimize disk swaps, but wouldn't you loose a bit of the epic feel of a cross state car chase?
No argument there, I was definitely speaking about the more linear games. A fully realized free-roam game would be a tough nut to crack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldboy View Post
Obviously you are against Sony in gaming if you believe the PSP doesn't have a great library these days by generalizing it according to past media suggestions, though you should go look and you will see a ton of awesome titles out now and coming out that are better than anything the DS could even handle...
Nope. I'm not against Sony in gaming, and the fact that you still think I am after all this time tells me that you don't pay much attention to what I write. I wish you would read what I put down with an open mind instead of just having these knee-jerk anti-Vulcan reactions all the time.

Now the fact that I'm not anti-Sony doesn't mean that I still find the PSP library to be lacking. It's better than it was a year ago, sure. If it wasn't, I think the console would be dead and buried by now. But it still doesn't have as deep a library as the DS.

And that "better than anything the DS could even handle" comment...how can you expect me to not think you base all of your opinions on the technology when you make comments like that? It certainly sounds like you value the tech over the gameplay most of the time.

Quote:
Then again that is your opinion and not mine or a majority of the other PSP owners. YOUR overall perception basically says there is nothign going for the PS3 except Games, therefore that is what people buy it for.
Pay attention in class, young man. I didn't say the PS3 had nothing going for it except games. I said that the Playstation brand is associated with game consoles; and the overwhelming majority of people will view it through that lens. The other features are essentially "value add" features...i.e., in addition to what they expect it to do (play games), it also does these cool things. But value-add is where subjectivity sets in: is Averge Joe willing to pay the extra $200 for something he didn't actually go looking for in the console? Some will say yes, some will say no, many will be on the fence.

Quote:
Your comment on the music cds being multimedia is ignorant, NO ONE bought it for it's ability to play music cds, nor did 99.9 percent of the owners even use it...
*sigh* I never claimed that they did. I just corrected your incorrect statement that the PS2 was the first multimedia console.

Seriously man, please start responding to what I write, not what you want to believe I meant.

Quote:
The Iphone is nothing new, and is only about the "look" and style.
Have you actually seen an iPhone? The touch-screen alone is a significant innovation, not to mention the fact that it's basically running the Mac OS. It really does go beyond any phone on the market today. Is that worth the hefty price tag? Hells no, not to me anyway. I also wonder why such a leading edge phone went proprietary on Cingular, which by most measures has the worst data service of the large carriers...

Quote:
I would also say that yes the PS3 was the same thing at launch. It was the "IT" console, though the following month the Wii became the "IT" console because of it's gimmicks.
Those must be some dandy "gimmicks"...the Wii is still the "IT" console seven months after launch. At what point do the detractors and Wii-haters concede that these innovations may be more than gimmicks? A year of beating the crap out of the competitors? Two years?

Quote:
Also i would have waited even longer to release the PS3. One make the graphics even better, say add a 2900 type chip inside, and work more on the Cell. Then give tutorials to third party companies so that they want to work with it and you, instead of just taking their money for the rights and running. Also would have finished up Home, so that it was running at launch, along with a great lineup. The PS2 is one of the most dominating pieces of hardware in the history of the world, and i would have rode that atleast until this fall maybe even next spring....The PS3's prices would have been cheaper upon release, and more developed....
I can see your point on all of that. Having Home at launch would have been great for them. I can only imagine that there was competitive pressure from the X360, having already been out for a year and beginning to turn out some really quality games like GoW. They were probably afraid that, if they waited too long, people might grow tired of waiting the PS3 and just get an X360. (All of this was before the Wii took off, I don't think Sony beieved it was threatened by the Wii at all.)

Quote:
Also where did i ever say i owned anything, let alone a PS3?
My bad, I thought I recalled from some time ago that you had a PS3. Must have been thinking of someone else.
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post #115 of 120
Im not surprised. The Wii has a great fun factor to it and is alot cheaper..

Nuff saud I think.
post #116 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanDragon View Post
And this is where I usually transition into the "Sony was arrogant" argument. They assumed they could shift a jillion PS3s without even trying, even if they jacked up the price to make it a media center. In the past I've compared this to Microsoft bundling Internet Explorer in Windows 95, basically "forcing" everyone to have a copy of IE. Ten years ago, this kind of software bundling landed you in court; but in 2006, hardware bundling is labeled as "convergence" and trumpeted as being good? I have a hard time seeing the difference.

Well i wouldn't compare IE to something like Home, or Blu Ray and all that. IE was a necessary evil, even though it does suck, how else would i get online to get the browser i actual want when i first install windows? Honestly it would be a pain to go out and find a disc for a browser that i would use once...(this is thru the eyes of a dsl user, not dial up....)

Quote:
Now the fact that I'm not anti-Sony doesn't mean that I still find the PSP library to be lacking. It's better than it was a year ago, sure. If it wasn't, I think the console would be dead and buried by now. But it still doesn't have as deep a library as the DS.

And that "better than anything the DS could even handle" comment...how can you expect me to not think you base all of your opinions on the technology when you make comments like that? It certainly sounds like you value the tech over the gameplay most of the time.
First prove that the DS has a deep library...Then take out all the remakes, and then take out the games that are basically rehashes of the same exact thing from Wii, GC, N64(ala Mario Kart rehashes...) and you are left with a few notable exceptions. If you love remakes and rehashes, then by all means throw your money down for them, but it's kinda sad to see people wasting good money to play a game that is over 10 years old. They should have atleast priced them at the Virtual Console prices, even those are still to high....(yes i know they have to cover production costs for packaging and stuff but still it ain't $20-25...)



Quote:
Pay attention in class, young man. I didn't say the PS3 had nothing going for it except games. I said that the Playstation brand is associated with game consoles; and the overwhelming majority of people will view it through that lens. The other features are essentially "value add" features...i.e., in addition to what they expect it to do (play games), it also does these cool things. But value-add is where subjectivity sets in: is Averge Joe willing to pay the extra $200 for something he didn't actually go looking for in the console? Some will say yes, some will say no, many will be on the fence.
The only people that don't know that the PS3 is a media center and not just a gaming console are ignorant parents who buy their kids anything. People actually interested in it know it's features, maybe won't use all of them, but they would know the basic features like Blu Ray, HDD, Music, Photos, Internet. PSP owners would also know the Connectivity features between the two(which is one of the main selling points for me....anywhere in the world!!). Yes i can agree that most of the PS2 base doesn't want to pay $600, honestly though do you expect a company to drop the price even further if they are already losing almost $250 per console?? That is stupid, and anyone who knows economics knows that is death. The price of their hardware should cost less soon though and eventually a price drop.


Quote:
Have you actually seen an iPhone? The touch-screen alone is a significant innovation, not to mention the fact that it's basically running the Mac OS. It really does go beyond any phone on the market today. Is that worth the hefty price tag? Hells no, not to me anyway. I also wonder why such a leading edge phone went proprietary on Cingular, which by most measures has the worst data service of the large carriers...
PDA's have had touch screen for years. The only difference it is bigger....wow ....Windows os has been on pda's for a few years also. There is nothing WORTH the price. If it was $250 or under, it would be worth it. It doesn't back up the price like the PS3 enough said.


Quote:
Those must be some dandy "gimmicks"...the Wii is still the "IT" console seven months after launch. At what point do the detractors and Wii-haters concede that these innovations may be more than gimmicks? A year of beating the crap out of the competitors? Two years?
idk about north america or europe, but yes i do see the beating in Japan, and i can contribute that to them wanting small stylish hardware, and easy to play games(ala ds). Also price point is another key factor. They went lazy on the actual system and just put work into the controller, which i have used and is annoying. Wii sports was fun for a few hours, playing with my gf and her brothers. Then when they left it began to really drag, and i felt retarded sitting there waving the controller around by myself while playing a game made for 2 year olds...Though if there was a Virtual Tennis game on the Wii that would be awesome, and i would definetly want that. Accessiblity doesn't equal Good games.


Quote:
I can see your point on all of that. Having Home at launch would have been great for them. I can only imagine that there was competitive pressure from the X360, having already been out for a year and beginning to turn out some really quality games like GoW. They were probably afraid that, if they waited too long, people might grow tired of waiting the PS3 and just get an X360. (All of this was before the Wii took off, I don't think Sony beieved it was threatened by the Wii at all.)
That is what happened, but i feel that because of the PS2 doing so good, and how big of a name Playstation is, that could have waited, perfected the system and the games, and would have came out the gates running.
It still has everything going for it, though the doubters keep saying but that is then not now, so your system isn't worth it, and that is what is killing them. I say in 2 years when they have over 2 dozen system killers out it will be way ahead of the 360(which it already is sorta) and catching the Wii since it's price will probably be half of what it is now.
post #117 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldboy View Post
Well i wouldn't compare IE to something like Home, or Blu Ray and all that. IE was a necessary evil, even though it does suck, how else would i get online to get the browser i actual want when i first install windows? Honestly it would be a pain to go out and find a disc for a browser that i would use once...(this is thru the eyes of a dsl user, not dial up....)
Fair argument, and very much what MS used as its defense. That was still the age of command line ftp and gopher, so it definitely was more challenging. Bundling was supposed to make internet access easier since it came in the box, and in hindsight it's not difficult to buy into that. But at the time, it essentially put the competition out of business. Monopolistic practices will get you in trouble even if it makes sense.

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First prove that the DS has a deep library...Then take out all the remakes, and then take out the games that are basically rehashes of the same exact thing from Wii, GC, N64(ala Mario Kart rehashes...) and you are left with a few notable exceptions. If you love remakes and rehashes, then by all means throw your money down for them, but it's kinda sad to see people wasting good money to play a game that is over 10 years old. They should have atleast priced them at the Virtual Console prices, even those are still to high....(yes i know they have to cover production costs for packaging and stuff but still it ain't $20-25...)
The rehash argument can be made on both sides of the fence, of course. A lot of PSP games are just ports or spin-offs of PS2 games...Burnout, Ratchet and Clank, any EA Sports game, etc. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Portables that let me take a version of by "big" console games with me are okay, in my book.

I'm usually okay with the portable game price points, too. When they start creeping above $30 I start getting a little peeved, and anything over $35 is highway robbery.

Quote:
The only people that don't know that the PS3 is a media center and not just a gaming console are ignorant parents who buy their kids anything.
A little harsher language than I would use, but yes, that's my point exactly. These ignorant people outnumber those of us "in the know" by huge margins. Seriously, the world is full of stupid people. Maybe you have a more optimistic view of society, or maybe you think that there are more people "just like you" than I do...I would only hope that these people at least learn what "Blu-Ray" is before they shell out $600. But I am clearly very pessimistic about the intelligence of modern society.

Quote:
Yes i can agree that most of the PS2 base doesn't want to pay $600, honestly though do you expect a company to drop the price even further if they are already losing almost $250 per console?? That is stupid, and anyone who knows economics knows that is death.
The outlook is troubling whether they cut the price or not. You're absolutely right, a price drop only increases their loss margin per unit...not exactly a path to riches. But without some price cut, the people holding out on a purchase aren't going to budge for a while. A price cut is probably inevitable, the only question is "how much". It all comes back to basic supply and demand: it doesn't matter what the unit costs to make, the unit was priced higher than the market would bear.

The real problem is the entire business model. Selling hardware at a loss is kind of stupid anyway. The razor/blade model really falls apart if the losses on the razor are enough to cripple the company.

Quote:
PDA's have had touch screen for years. The only difference it is bigger....wow ....Windows os has been on pda's for a few years also. There is nothing WORTH the price. If it was $250 or under, it would be worth it. It doesn't back up the price like the PS3 enough said.
Yeah, but a PDAs interface was nothing like what I've seen on an iPhone. It's more like that new tabletop Microsoft computer thing, I think it's called Surface or something. Very cool stuff. Definitely better than any Windows PDA I've ever used (never used a Windows smart phone though, I'm on BlackBerry now.)

Since even boring old-fashioned phones cost more than $250 before subsidies from the calling plan contracts, I doubt that the iPhone will be that low anytime soon! However, this does point out another good example of subjectivity in the context of "is it worth it". To many business users, a more capable smart phone can be worth a LOT of money. To the rest of us, not so much.
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post #118 of 120
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The rehash argument can be made on both sides of the fence, of course. A lot of PSP games are just ports or spin-offs of PS2 games...Burnout, Ratchet and Clank, any EA Sports game, etc. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Portables that let me take a version of by "big" console games with me are okay, in my book.

I'm usually okay with the portable game price points, too. When they start creeping above $30 I start getting a little peeved, and anything over $35 is highway robbery.
I would argue against that though and say alot of that was the media saying they all are ports, yet alot is basically the same characters in a completely new idea and game. See: MGS Portable Ops, Dungeon Siege Throne of Agony, Silent Hill Origins, God of War, Killzone Liberation, Socom....These are all completely different(ok maybe not Socom and Silent Hill but still different) and new compared to their console brothers and sisters....Though the DS honestly can't hold anyone of those games, and that is why the PSP is better for gaming. The standards for a ds game are very low, therefore anything even remotely innovative or interesting gets praise, but with the PSP everyone expects PS2 level gaming, and though it is possible, it is unfair. Developers have finally started to realize it's potential and it is coming into it's own, as sales figure have gained over the past year, as well as overall game quality.

Also i don't think it's fair to say $35 for a PSP game is robbery, since their production values are for the most part higher than DS games. Obviously some games are worth it(MGS, Killzone, Dungeon Siege) and some aren't(ATV offroad fury, Sega Genesis Collection) It's all in the eye of the beholder...


Quote:
A little harsher language than I would use, but yes, that's my point exactly. These ignorant people outnumber those of us "in the know" by huge margins. Seriously, the world is full of stupid people. Maybe you have a more optimistic view of society, or maybe you think that there are more people "just like you" than I do...I would only hope that these people at least learn what "Blu-Ray" is before they shell out $600. But I am clearly very pessimistic about the intelligence of modern society.
Trust me when i say my views on our society are to bad to state here..... I am a very cynical person in reality, it's just sometimes i wish more people were like me and take the chance to do things right instead of just wasting time and money. Take for example: My GF's step brother's parents have bought him a PS3, 360 and Wii the past year, as well as a DS and PSP. He does work for his fathers company, which he owns... Yet he is only 14, and makes maybe 20-30 per job which he works once or twice a week. His mother buys him atleast 5-6 new games a month, and his father is buying him and his brother a brand new laptop for christmas....Now can someone justify this for me please....When i was a kid i got a Sega Genesis and a gameboy and that lasted me over 5 years until the PSOne and N64 came out. It seems so retarded that parents spend ridiculous amounts of money to make their children happy and then turn around and blame others for their debt, kids misbehaving and unhappiness....Kids don't deserve all of this garbage these days. Honestly, yes i got alot of things i wanted when i was a kid(N64, PS1, Genesis, Nes, Gameboy) but i only got one big gift a year, and usually i wanted to go on trips with my parents rather than stay inside and play games. I am going on vacation at the end of this month because i would rather have a nice weekend away enjoying life with my gf than buying a nice shiny ps3 that would last me years...idk maybe it's just me rambling but i honestly hate what has happened to america....



Quote:
The outlook is troubling whether they cut the price or not. You're absolutely right, a price drop only increases their loss margin per unit...not exactly a path to riches. But without some price cut, the people holding out on a purchase aren't going to budge for a while. A price cut is probably inevitable, the only question is "how much". It all comes back to basic supply and demand: it doesn't matter what the unit costs to make, the unit was priced higher than the market would bear.

The real problem is the entire business model. Selling hardware at a loss is kind of stupid anyway. The razor/blade model really falls apart if the losses on the razor are enough to cripple the company.
Well idk how bad taking a loss on consoles would be if they had more games availible for them to get profits off of licensing and first party games. Though it still isn't good. I recently read about the Blue Diodes becoming cheaper, so a price cut could possibly happen by christmas, though i don't think the Diodes becoming cheaper would be enough for Sony to get back to profits or no loss even withou a price cut. It will be atleast a year and a half before they realize a profit margin on consoles, maybe even more. That's another reason why i would have waited.

Also, i love how no one likes to mention that the PS3 is outselling the 360 4to1 in Japan....So Sony isn't doing that bad....They are selling about even in the states and ALOT better overseas than the 360....Nintendo isn't even competing with Sony so this topic should be dropped.
post #119 of 120
SONY have always had a certain arrogance about them and their products...
the PS3 is no different...
"The PS3 is this and the PS3 is that...bla bla bla..."

From my thinking of the current situation,
SONY seem more into getting Blue-Ray on the market rather than
getting a "GAMES CONSOLE" out there...
Blue-Ray Player 1st...
Games console 2nd...
and that would seem to evident when you go into a shop like GAME...

There are more Blue-Ray films available than games for the PS3!!!
and the games that are currently available are not the type of games that make you go..."thats it...thats the game that will make me spend £500"

SONYs primary goal seems to be to get Blue-Ray up the ladder as the new standard...
Who can we achieve this says SONY?....put it in the PS3!!!

The blind faithful PS2 owners will by them cause all they see is SONY...
The people wanting a cheap Blue-Ray player will by the PS3...

The people wanting a gaming console 1st and foremost are buying Wii's & 360's...

yes the PS3 has the bigger processor and the higher media storage...
but...the PS3 is too expensive and not enough games to justify the price!

Until the the PS3 comes WAY down in price & the "exclusive" games come out...
i can't see proper gamers forking out money when they have a 360 or a PC...

PS - PS3 owners saying that when GTA IV / FIFA 08 / Pro Evo 2008 / etc come out on on the PS3, the PS3 will then take the lead...
just remember these games are going to be available on the 360 & PC as well!!
The Playstation brand does not have as many of the exclusive titles as they once did...

For me...the 2 games that would MIBI wet my mouth for the PS3 is MGS4 & possibly GT5...(as i like the forza & PGR series now!)

i am not a PS3 basher...just a SONY basher!...lol
I really want to like the PS3 but theres nothing in the brochure thats making want one...not yet
I think there will be a few more poeple out there that think about the PS3 as i do...
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post #120 of 120
I own all 3 consoles and in my honest opinion I like them in this order (first being better)

1. PS3
2. 360
3. Wii
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