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Wii outselling PS3 in Japan five-to-one - Page 9

post #81 of 120
Hey, jman, you're evaluating consoles based a national consensus and determining false conclusions.

What you are basically saying is that, since more people are buying Wii's, then that must be because the PS3 is no fun and all the games suck.

Truth is, most people haven't tried the PS3 to know if it sucks or not, and they are buying Wii's because they are cheap.

The rest is your generalizations.

That is the only conclusion you can come to.
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post #82 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by esco View Post
VulcanDragon both the X360 and the PS3 are both being advertised by their respective companies as FULL entertainment centers.
So advertising and marketing messages are gospel now?

They can advertise them as anything they want...that doesn't change the fact that their primary purpose is for gaming. Maybe the convergence message resonates well with you and some other early adopters, but not with the overwhelming majority of the world. The XBox and Playstation brand are associated with games, not media centers. The word "Playstation" is a cultural synonym for "video games"...albeit not to the same degree as the word "Nintendo".

Quote:
Yes there are also many of use with 1080p tvs who enjoy every feature both the X360 and PS3 provide. How is the price ridiculous? How is the value subjective? All you need do is research the going price on every main component that makes up the PS3 and you will notice the asking price is fair. Many have the patience to wait for upcoming games.
And I'm one of them. Don't try playing a "I have a HDTV!" card on me...if you've paid attention, I'm one of the earliest adopters of HDTV. Had a 65" Mitsubishi set before HDMI was even a twinkle in the DRM Nazi's eyes. Having a 52" XBR3 installed next Friday. I think I "get" the HDTV thing, okay?

I've said my peace on the value proposition of the Blu-Ray drive in a gaming console about a hundred times before, so I'm not going to go into it again. Search for it if you like.

Quote:
Look through many video game magazines and you will notice that PS3 is voted to have the best coming lineup of upcoming games.
I get enough previews and buzz on the web, podcasts, and X-Play, thanks. I don't feel a need to read a print magazine...never liked them much. For almost as long as there have been video game magazines, almost all of them seemed to be full of puff pieces and drivel. I am genuinely more interested in what people here think about games than some preview in a magazine.

And I'm not denying that the PS3 will eventually have better games, never have. That's why I am always careful to talk about "now". Because now, the game lineup kind of sucks. "Future" game linups don't count for squat until the future is now.

Quote:
PS3 also has access to hundreds of games from PS1 and PS2 that is you own u can play on ur new system and offer upscaling if you have a HDTV. Like many have stated.
Bah to that. Again, I've gone over and over how overhyped the importance of backwards compatibility really is. It's been trumped up as some major must-have for consoles, but it's simply not the feature that moves units. People don't spend $600 on a PS3 so that they can play old games...they buy the new games. And people that already have PS1 and PS2 games have PS1s and PS2s to play them on. Sure, it may help people with cable control since they only need one console hooked up...whee. That certainly justifies the $600 price tag...

Quote:
What games does the Wii have out right now not multiplatform that are major sellers? Zelda.....
No argument there, Zelda is the big hit and the rest of the lineup is thin. But there are two imporant differences: 1) The Wii ships with its most popular game packed in, and 2) it doesn't cost $600 freaking dollars. Price matters. The more you pay, the more you (rightly) should expect.

Quote:
Could care less if it is the "first franchise ever" or the "biggest franchise there is".
No one said you had to like it. Hate it, that's fine. But asserting that it's not a "major" game is simply choosing which facts you want to believe in order to make your case. Vulcan no likey. There are lots of ways to attack Mario...e.g., it is definitely an overused franshise. Did we really need Mario Tennis? Or Mario DDR? Or Mario <insert game genre here>?

Quote:
Mario has become like Final Fantasy and Madden. Great past achievements but now live off a name with few if any innovations.
Dude! Final Fantasy 12 was the single best RPG of 2006, bar none! And it was innovative...it's battle system was unlike any othere game to date. Have you even played these games?

I agree about Madden, and all sports games really. The entire business model of pumping out minor improvements and charging full price year after year is absurd. But people buy it, so they're not about to stop.

Quote:
How can you try and compare Mario to games like Metal Gear 4 and Mass Effect which are pushing the level of the current video game industry to its limits?
So if I interpret you correctly, your entire measure of how important a game is is how hard it stresses the modern hardware? A lot of people seem to share that sentiment. Sad. Technology does not equal good games. I've said that I thought Metal Gear Solid games sucked for a long time now, and no amount of technology upgrades are going to make the game better for me. Similarly, I love Mario games; and the technology upgrades really don't add that much to the experience anymore. It's the core gameplay that defines a great game, not how many triangles the hardware can push.

Quote:
Cheaper is better? So Honda makes better cars then BMW? Panasonic makes better TVs than Samsung? Or maybe Emachines makes better PCs then Dell?
Completely overlooking the point to put words in my mouth. Nice. Fine, I'll play your game.

By all traditioinal measures, a BMW is better than a Honda, fine. Now factor in how many people can afford the BMW, and how many people can't. The have-nots outnumber the haves by a huuuuuuuuuge margin. Maybe they would like that shiny new BMW, but it's too expensive...but not the Honda. It's not quite so shiny, not quite so fancy...but it's definitely affordable, and it's probably good enough for what they really need a car to do: drive them places. So to this overwhelming majority of people, Honda trumps BMW.

Way too abstract an example, I don't like your game. So let's bring up the overused, but true and therefore not ignorable, example of VHS vs. Beta. Beta was better. It had higher video fidelity and stereo audio on day one. VHS looked worse and was mono. But VHS trampled the crap out of Beta, and one factor in that was that VHS was generally a cheaper machine to own. Cheaper trumped better. History, not rhetoric.

Quote:
The Wii is cheap mainly because other than the wireless controller there was not a single drop of sweat involved in its development. The system is "barely" more powerful thana XBOX 1. Nintendo would have been laughed at if they tried to charge more.
I just listened to a podcast from some game magazine editors last week wondering about this very point. Conventional wisdom would agree with you, that charging more than they are would have been suicide. And yet, you still can't find a Wii anywhere. The demand is outstripping supply by ridiculous margins...and basic economics tells you that that means the market would support a higher price. But in the long run the shortage is probably to Nintendo's favor; it keeps interest in a technologically inferior system artifically inflated for an extended period.

Quote:
You know why i started to hate Nintendo? Because they started to think they are the parents of the gaming world. They sugar coat it by saying they make games everyone can play. Sony makes different games to satisfy the ENTIRE market. They makes games for everyone. They have their kiddy games also like Rachet and Clank and Banjoe, but they also have games like GTA and God of War. Sony does not try to b your parent. If gamers want it they will make it.
Our parents? I don't know what you're talking about. There was some content censoring back in the SNES days, most notably the infamous sweat instead of blood in Mortal Kombat. But that's been ages...what on earth makes you think they are trying to be parental?

Sony doesn't even make half the games that Sony fans attribute to them, of course. That's not true of Nintendo, most of the major hits on their consoles are first-party games. I listened to a podcast interview with the head of Shiny games the other day and he said that this is because many 3rd party developers think it's too difficult to compete with Nintendo's games. Not that Nintendo discourages competition, or forces "parental" stuff on them, or whatever...Nintendo's games are just too good, and it's hard to get someone to buy your game when there's a new Mario game out.

Wow, that was long...
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post #83 of 120
i don't see a single FPS for the wii... seems to me they only put out kid's games...

edit: ok nevermind that, i was wrong (assuming Metroid will be fps). but still come on, the only game other than that that's worth playing is Zelda. unless you like funsy little "sports" games... and Mariold.
post #84 of 120
CoD3 Ring a bell?
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post #85 of 120
is that on the wii too?
post #86 of 120
Quote:
I get enough previews and buzz on the web, podcasts, and X-Play, thanks. I don't feel a need to read a print magazine...never liked them much. For almost as long as there have been video game magazines, almost all of them seemed to be full of puff pieces and drivel. I am genuinely more interested in what people here think about games than some preview in a magazine.

And I'm not denying that the PS3 will eventually have better games, never have. That's why I am always careful to talk about "now". Because now, the game lineup kind of sucks. "Future" game linups don't count for squat until the future is now.
I am the exact opposite. i am more interested in what writers who actaully are involved 24/7 with the industry and actually know what is going rather than listening to most posters who are 90% fanbois. How does the furture not mean squat? So i should buy a Wii only for what Zelda? Which is the only decent game available as of now? Future gaming experiece is always involved when buying a system. The same thing for most electronic items purchased. You want to know yourpurchase will still be worth it 2-3 years down the line. That there will still be games available to play.



Quote:
Bah to that. Again, I've gone over and over how overhyped the importance of backwards compatibility really is. It's been trumped up as some major must-have for consoles, but it's simply not the feature that moves units. People don't spend $600 on a PS3 so that they can play old games...they buy the new games. And people that already have PS1 and PS2 games have PS1s and PS2s to play them on. Sure, it may help people with cable control since they only need one console hooked up...whee. That certainly justifies the $600 price tag...

Overhyped but Nintendo is doing the same thing with their online service but you have to pay to download. Part of your statement is a ssumption. I have 2 friends who both purchased PS3 because they are movienuts for the Blu-Ray and have just begun purchasing games. I introduced them to God Of War and Xenogears which they could not have played since they do not own PS or PS2.

Also i have already stated why the $600 dollars is justified. You did not bother to reply. How is it overpriced? Can you give me the going value of a cell processor and a Blu-Ray player? Sony is losing money on each sale so by definition it is not overpriced. Economic states that if there are people willing to purchase at current market price then it is not overpriced.


Quote:
No argument there, Zelda is the big hit and the rest of the lineup is thin. But there are two imporant differences: 1) The Wii ships with its most popular game packed in, and 2) it doesn't cost $600 freaking dollars. Price matters. The more you pay, the more you (rightly) should expect.
Yea the Wii does not cost 600 dollars...because the technology is hardly worth $250. Like i stated before nintendo put hardly any development power into the Wii other than the gimmicky remote. I payed my 600...and i got everything i expected. I knew before hand the greatest games would not be at launch and i still not regret my choice.



Quote:
No one said you had to like it. Hate it, that's fine. But asserting that it's not a "major" game is simply choosing which facts you want to believe in order to make your case. Vulcan no likey. There are lots of ways to attack Mario...e.g., it is definitely an overused franshise. Did we really need Mario Tennis? Or Mario DDR? Or Mario <insert game genre here>?
I state it not being a major title because out of the games most anticipated for console it is hardly spoken of. I personally could careless for mario.



Quote:
Dude! Final Fantasy 12 was the single best RPG of 2006, bar none! And it was innovative...it's battle system was unlike any othere game to date. Have you even played these games?
Wrong! It was not innovative. I have been playing the same battle system for 4 years. FFXI anyone? Yes i own FFXII...sadly. The gameis not completely crap but it is the same story idea recycled yet again.


Quote:
So if I interpret you correctly, your entire measure of how important a game is is how hard it stresses the modern hardware? A lot of people seem to share that sentiment. Sad. Technology does not equal good games. I've said that I thought Metal Gear Solid games sucked for a long time now, and no amount of technology upgrades are going to make the game better for me. Similarly, I love Mario games; and the technology upgrades really don't add that much to the experience anymore. It's the core gameplay that defines a great game, not how many triangles the hardware can push.
Not saying just technology. If you have played MGS you should have noticed how outstanding the storyline music are. Is is like you are playing a movie. The maker (Kojima?) is a genius. Each version adds new control and gameplay elements never seen before in a action game. Then games like Mass Effect which has to be one of the most innovative rpg in a long time.



Quote:
Completely overlooking the point to put words in my mouth. Nice. Fine, I'll play your game.

By all traditioinal measures, a BMW is better than a Honda, fine. Now factor in how many people can afford the BMW, and how many people can't. The have-nots outnumber the haves by a huuuuuuuuuge margin. Maybe they would like that shiny new BMW, but it's too expensive...but not the Honda. It's not quite so shiny, not quite so fancy...but it's definitely affordable, and it's probably good enough for what they really need a car to do: drive them places. So to this overwhelming majority of people, Honda trumps BMW.

Way too abstract an example, I don't like your game. So let's bring up the overused, but true and therefore not ignorable, example of VHS vs. Beta. Beta was better. It had higher video fidelity and stereo audio on day one. VHS looked worse and was mono. But VHS trampled the crap out of Beta, and one factor in that was that VHS was generally a cheaper machine to own. Cheaper trumped better. History, not rhetoric.
You proved my point. You stated that cheaper was better. I provided examples that this statement is wrong. Nintendo being cheaper does not make it better. Just provides something for people who do not wish to pay $600 for a system. Maybe i got your meaning wrong.



Quote:
I just listened to a podcast from some game magazine editors last week wondering about this very point. Conventional wisdom would agree with you, that charging more than they are would have been suicide. And yet, you still can't find a Wii anywhere. The demand is outstripping supply by ridiculous margins...and basic economics tells you that that means the market would support a higher price. But in the long run the shortage is probably to Nintendo's favor; it keeps interest in a technologically inferior system artifically inflated for an extended period.
The demand is there because Nintendo is offering a system at a price a majority of the population can afford that is consistent with how much the technology of said system is worth. They cannot afford to raise there price because then they leave their niche they have formed and go into the bracket of being overpriced because the technology does not warrant the price.

Actually i think the shortage works against Nintendo. How long you think this level of demand will last? What games does Nintendo have lined up to compete against X360 and PS3 come this holiday season? You think people will care about Wii when heavy weight like GTA4 and Halo3 step into the ring? I would be trying to sell as many sytems now as possible.



Quote:
Our parents? I don't know what you're talking about. There was some content censoring back in the SNES days, most notably the infamous sweat instead of blood in Mortal Kombat. But that's been ages...what on earth makes you think they are trying to be parental?

Sony doesn't even make half the games that Sony fans attribute to them, of course. That's not true of Nintendo, most of the major hits on their consoles are first-party games. I listened to a podcast interview with the head of Shiny games the other day and he said that this is because many 3rd party developers think it's too difficult to compete with Nintendo's games. Not that Nintendo discourages competition, or forces "parental" stuff on them, or whatever...Nintendo's games are just too good, and it's hard to get someone to buy your game when there's a new Mario game out.
Not saying that Sony made half the games they are given credit for. it is the fact that Sony gives the freedom to play games Nintendo would theme as improper. Really you telling me GTA or Halo cannot out sell Mario? Nintedo first party games have always been few and far in-between. If a company does not think they can make a game that can compete in that time than that company should consider closing the doors.

It all comes down to variety. nintendo has lacked that since the end of SNES. Sony has stepped up and given its gamers unlimited variety of different genres and rating lvl games to play so has Microsoft now. Nintendo is known for not wanting certain types of games on their system. Do you honestly think we will ever see GTA on Wii?

Sorry for any grammar mistakes. These are long -_-
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post #87 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by pablo420 View Post
Just to let you know, how long does it take to burn a Blu-Ray disc? Exactly...
WHAT??? who cares, the general public can't afford the burners, and dvds took forever when they first released to, that is a blatant escape attempt, wow sad.
post #88 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by k0nsp1ra70r View Post
Listing time for ye Sony fanboy? I want names of franchises kthx.
Rachet and Clank
Resistance
Jak and Daxter
God of War
Heavenly Sword
Loco Roco
Katamari
Motorstorm
Lair
Killzone
Socom
Singstar
ATV Offroad Fury
Sly Cooper
The Getaway
Calling All Cars!

seems like a pretty good list of ORIGINAL ideas created after the release of the ps2....How many of Nintendo's games don't rely on a character from years ago.....???


Also Vulcan: How can you say that Nintendo's game are better and that is why no one develops for them....It's more like Nintendo won't help at all to promote your game because they are busy trying to sell a rehashed idea with their popular characters....
post #89 of 120
Every week there is yet another article about how bad the PS3 is selling. You guys can debate this til the end of time, but only one thing matters. Is anyone buying it? The answer is a resounding "no". Remember VHS vs. Beta? Beta was actually a better technology, but VHS won out. Why? Cheaper, better marketing, and delivered what people wanted. No more, no less. What people want is not always the best and most expensive option. I bet in 10 years the PS3 case study will be in every marketing/business text book in a chapter entitled, "How not to roll out a product".
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post #90 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldboy View Post
Rachet and Clank
Resistance
Jak and Daxter
God of War
Heavenly Sword
Loco Roco
Katamari
Motorstorm
Lair
Killzone
Socom
Singstar
ATV Offroad Fury
Sly Cooper
The Getaway
Calling All Cars!

seems like a pretty good list of ORIGINAL ideas created after the release of the ps2....How many of Nintendo's games don't rely on a character from years ago.....???
The only remotely decent franchise there is Resistance, I know it hasn't been out for long, but I actually enjoyed it.

I admit singstar is a well created franchise, but strange considering Singstar relied on the game design principles Nintendo has used for years, "If it's fun, they will come".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldboy
Also Vulcan: How can you say that Nintendo's game are better and that is why no one develops for them....It's more like Nintendo won't help at all to promote your game because they are busy trying to sell a rehashed idea with their popular characters....
See: Intelligent Systems/Capcom
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