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What 939 Chip? - Page 4

post #31 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakg View Post
IMO the only difference is the memory controller - in a server environment you don't need uber timings, and the looser controller = better stability.
You might be correct. Because AMD refused to give us any information, we're left guessing as to which of the 2 options they chose. Either the cache timings were relaxed or the memory controller itself. It's possible they did both

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakg View Post
This is also better for us OC'ers, but i LOL at the fact that they are not only "Hand picked from the wafer" but also cut "from the centre of the wafer" at the same time
Yeah, that's always made me chuckle. You can then toss in the "better silicon" rumor and it all really falls apart. Having different silicon on select ICs on a wafer would be a pretty spectacular achievement Also, having made chips at the fab here in Washington State for National Semiconductor, I can tell you that the center chips were actually low yielding as were the outer edges. The best chips actually formed a donut shape on wafers
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post #32 of 45
First off, prove that an opteron is slower... I've never seen it between the many X-2s and Opterons I've owned and OCed (4200+, 4400+, 4800+, 170, 165, 3800+, and now a 3600+ which is detectably a shade slower but is likely because of the ram). Also, please come up with hard proof that the Opterons have higher latencies.

See, two can play a the never ending 'proof' game. I don't usually mind being called on something I'm honestly wrong about but you bust people's balls constantly with the 'got proof' bit and then go right out and lay out some conjecture on your own. It's getting irritating coming from a respected member like yourself.

EDIT: added detail
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post #33 of 45
the opterons are more stable, because the IMC is slightly slower than an Athlons. After a certain speed, the IMC isnt stable, and you cant change the IMc voltage, so the only things you can do it get around that is to use a higher multiplier or stick the IMC on a divider...thats why the new brisbanes are OCing so high...i'm pretty sure AMD put the IMC on a 3/4 divider...i dont know where i read it, but i did
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post #34 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ihatethedukes View Post
First off, prove that an opteron is slower... I've never seen it between the many X-2s and Opterons I've owned and OCed (4200+, 4400+, 4800+, 170, 165, 3800+, and now a 3600+ which is detectably a shade slower but is likely because of the ram). Also, please come up with hard proof that the Opterons have higher latencies.

See, two can play a the never ending 'proof' game. I don't usually mind being called on something I'm honestly wrong about but you bust people's balls constantly with the 'got proof' bit and then go right out and lay out some conjecture on your own. It's getting irritating coming from a respected member like yourself.

EDIT: added detail
ok then which do u think is the best performer? i've been looking around to get a x2 or an opty. I could see the difference between my cpu and a x2 but there is no chart to look at comparing with opty. which one is a better bang for the buck?
post #35 of 45
Erm, the Opterons are better (imo), but they are slightly slower (like 5%) on memory because of the looser IMC (Integrated Memory Controller)
post #36 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by WVKID4456 View Post
hhaahaa. anyone know anyone with a 939 chip?
I am the proud owner of a 939.
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post #37 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSubtleKnife View Post
the opterons are more stable, because the IMC is slightly slower than an Athlons. After a certain speed, the IMC isnt stable, and you cant change the IMc voltage, so the only things you can do it get around that is to use a higher multiplier or stick the IMC on a divider...thats why the new brisbanes are OCing so high...i'm pretty sure AMD put the IMC on a 3/4 divider...i dont know where i read it, but i did
I'm not sure about the point that the Opteron IMC is slower than an Athlon's. In fact, I'd go on to say it's untrue.

The proof? That information can be found in the stepping codes. Given, say, an Opteron with stepping CCBWE 0534SPMW, and an X2 4400+ with stepping CCBWE 0605XPMW: What do both of these steppings share? CCBWE.

In AMD's stepping code scheme, the first five letters of the code all indicate specific information. The third and fourth letters together ("BW") indicate the version of the memory controller. Obviously, in the given example above (I've got both of these CPUs, so these are actual steppings), they have the same exact memory controller version, so the theory that an Opteron's IMC is inherently slower than an Athlon64's is false. (This is also part of my main support for the argument that Denmark Opterons and Toledo X2s are identical, as are Venus Opterons and San Diego A64s.)

I think that the insistence on the fallacy that S939 Opterons are somehow different from S939 Athlon64s is rooted in the published data on Opterons, which described the original S940 Opterons. Those chips are different, compared to the S939 Opterons, for obvious reasons. The S939 Opteron, I'd posit, is more a marketing stroke than anything else. They're great chips, of course, but they're a different animal compared to the S940s.

Hope this helps clarify things.
    
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post #38 of 45
opterons are best to overclock value for amd. but i just bought a athlon 3400+ for 32 dollars. just to overclock, because it was 32 dollars and i had parts laying around gathering dust
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post #39 of 45
I have an Opteron 146 running at 2.85 @ 1.5v. I like it's performance, but I have to get a 165 (dual core) so I can try and beat Pook's 3DMark06 score with my 7600GT and I want to know what Dual Core is like. (Yeah, Pook will probably be like ???)
I have my 146 FS by the way.
post #40 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by sccr64472 View Post
Opterons are made on the same wafers as X2s, so please describe how they're made any differently. Also, what extra cost are you referring to? If they're made on the same wafer, they would have the same unit cost as every other IC on the wafer.
To you and in defence of Ihatethedukes...
An old friend who worked in a specialty area with CPUs informed that the silicon core is much likened to a water mellon, in that the center is the sweetest part and the further out get the flavor diminishes. A simple analogy... add the fact the Opterons are made to work under excessive load in servers, one could extrapolate why AMD would use the best part of the silicon core to make the CPU cores with the most demanding load. Can I prove that, no, but it does cater to common sence since there "Server" products demand the highest quality
    
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