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post #21 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheetos316 View Post
That seems to be one of the most concerning things about Barcelona. If they really can't get above 2.4-2.6GHz, even if the architecture is good enough to dethrone Core, there's no way they can compete with 45nm Core chips running in the upper 3GHz range, especially when those guys still have so much OC headroom. We'll have to wait even longer now to see if their promised 45nm planned for the second half of next year performs better..... waiting... waiting... waiting.....
I for one am fed up with the waiting game... I went right on and picked up a 3600 brisbane, the price was right and I didn't want to put too much stock into what's eventually to come... Honestly, always chasing the horizon is not getting anyone anywhere. Settle down with a nice little piece of hardware and start a family already.
    
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post #22 of 70
Remember guys, there is no such thing as a "rated" operations per clock on a processor.

However, the 1.6Ghz Barcelona was 58% slower than the 2.4Ghz Kentsfield (AMD benchmarks).

Now, for arguements sake, if the Kentsfield is 12 ops / clock (what everyone likes to say) and processor speed scaled linearly, then the Barcelona would be at about 10.44 operations / clock.

Sorry...

Penryn or bust.
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post #23 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldovi View Post
Remember guys, there is no such thing as a "rated" operations per clock on a processor.

However, the 1.6Ghz Barcelona was 58% slower than the 2.4Ghz Kentsfield (AMD benchmarks).

Now, for arguements sake, if the Kentsfield is 12 ops / clock (what everyone likes to say) and processor speed scaled linearly, then the Barcelona would be at about 10.44 operations / clock.

Sorry...

Penryn or bust.
The Intel system had more bandwidth. A long time ago someone tested an E4300 at 3.6ghz, and it got whomped by a 3.1ghz X6800 in all tests. (400mhz FSB vs 520mhz FSB)

The clock speeds were superior, and it made no difference. Not enough FSB/memory bandwidth.

Now what happens if you have 200mhz vs 266mhz(RAM: 667mhz vs 800mhz)? We don't know anything about AMD's new architecture. Bandwidth could affect it just as heavily as Intel; I mean, they tripled the amount of number crunching that the FPUs can do, right? Maybe to load them up, it needs massive amounts of bandwidth, too? Maybe they finally designed something to combat Intel, that feeds on the same things Intel's CPUs do?

Or maybe it'll be a complete flop and AMD will go bankrupt.

Whichever way it goes...we should be wishing AMD sticks around, and has a killer CPU. We all know Intel would still be aiming for 10ghz if AMD wasn't there to kick them.
     
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post #24 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kramy View Post
The Intel system had more bandwidth. A long time ago someone tested an E4300 at 3.6ghz, and it got whomped by a 3.1ghz X6800 in all tests. (400mhz FSB vs 520mhz FSB)
I would love to see that test. Theres no way a 3.1ghz X6800 beat a E4300 @ 3.6. Not a chance.
post #25 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by pheoxs View Post
I would love to see that test. Theres no way a 3.1ghz X6800 beat a E4300 @ 3.6. Not a chance.
I'll look around for the article.

And it's quite possible...you just need to find a task that hits bandwidth super hard, but doesn't need nearly as much processing once the data gets to the CPU. In a perfect world, CPUs would have access to unlimitted bandwidth, and every clock cycle would be filled.

Edit: I have no idea where the article is, but I'll fill in what I can remember.

I believe it was on Dailytech, but am not totally certain. It was an article about whether an E4300 overclocked can match the highest end C2D's. In lots of tasks the E4300 had superior performance, but there were a few that hit its bandwidth super hard. I doubt going below 3 ghz would've made a difference; some tasks just need way more bandwidth than processing power.
     
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post #26 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kramy View Post
Read it in various articles about Barcelona testbeds.

But it doesn't matter; 18ops * 2.6ghz(stock) will be competing against 12ops * 3.9ghz(stock). From the sounds of it, they might just match the next-gen Intel stuff.
3.9GHz stock? Where did you find that? 0.o
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post #27 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kramy View Post
Now what happens if you have 200mhz vs 266mhz(RAM: 667mhz vs 800mhz)? We don't know anything about AMD's new architecture. Bandwidth could affect it just as heavily as Intel; I mean, they tripled the amount of number crunching that the FPUs can do, right? Maybe to load them up, it needs massive amounts of bandwidth, too? Maybe they finally designed something to combat Intel, that feeds on the same things Intel's CPUs do?
Maybe maybe maybe.

Lookat what AMD's current arcitecture is like with Hyper Transport. I'd imagine that Hyper Transport 3.0 is going to be implemented in this new chips. The Hyper Transport bus is MASSIVE in terms of bandwidth in comparison to Intels Arcitecture, because you have the CPU and Memory talking dirrectly whereas the CPU and RAM talk indirectly in Intels arcitecture because the data has to pass through the chipset.

The HT bus on current AMD Arcitectures is extremely unsaturated in bandwidth terms so judging by AMD's prior products Im willing to bet that bandwidth will not be an issue.
    
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post #28 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kramy View Post
The Intel system had more bandwidth. A long time ago someone tested an E4300 at 3.6ghz, and it got whomped by a 3.1ghz X6800 in all tests. (400mhz FSB vs 520mhz FSB)

The clock speeds were superior, and it made no difference. Not enough FSB/memory bandwidth.

Now what happens if you have 200mhz vs 266mhz(RAM: 667mhz vs 800mhz)? We don't know anything about AMD's new architecture. Bandwidth could affect it just as heavily as Intel; I mean, they tripled the amount of number crunching that the FPUs can do, right? Maybe to load them up, it needs massive amounts of bandwidth, too? Maybe they finally designed something to combat Intel, that feeds on the same things Intel's CPUs do?

Or maybe it'll be a complete flop and AMD will go bankrupt.

Whichever way it goes...we should be wishing AMD sticks around, and has a killer CPU. We all know Intel would still be aiming for 10ghz if AMD wasn't there to kick them.


Maybe maybe maybe maybe... I see all the indications AMD pulling out of the enthusiast market and going for the far more profitable systems' integrator market segment. IMO if they keep this failure track record (delays, revisions, respins, paper launches, did I say delays?!) they'll end up lower than in Duron's days.

My 2 pennys.
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post #29 of 70
AMD may just be forced to pull out of the enthusiast market. AMD have to pull out some serious magic for their stuff to come out on top. AMD will be wanting to cash in on their labours but intel simply won't allow it. My opinion is that the behaviour towards the GPU's said it all. Lower price than opposition, lower performance and no extension into the ultra high end. AMD's products will come out and they'll fit neatly into the middle, and so will the prices.
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post #30 of 70
i think the big long wait of amd's 4 core processors, is because they are overlooking their architecture. They seem to let little thigns come out every once in awhile so i think they are just taking their time for something that they can replace with 8 cores later but same architecture
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