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77C on E4300 @ 3.0GHz, over time

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
So I wake up this morning and check my overnight run of Orthos--something I hadn't done before. I'd run Orthos for ~45 minutes but never overnight.

Here's what I see:



I had started TAT at the beginning of the test to only log temps (not in test mode), so I had a pretty good record of thousands of temps through the night:



What's that? How hot did it get?!?!?



Yep--new high temperature. 77C full load, several times through the night.

This chip idles at 36-38C (speedstep enabled) and it doesn't seem to mind the high temperatures.

I can play Doom 3 with no issues and we never stress the computer as much as it's stressed by Orthos, so we rarely seen any temps higher than 50-54C.

So...thoughts?

Thanks,

Paul
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post #2 of 17
Whoa..That Zalman ain't cuttin it, get a better cooler for sure.
What's your vcore at in Bios?
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post #3 of 17
Thread Starter 
In bios, I can go with Auto (which is pretty low)--manual settings begin at 1.40 (the lowest) and go way up from there.

I'm running 1.40 in BIOS, and now see temps higher than Auto, but it's more stable under Doom 3 with 1.40v.


I am not overly concerned about temps, as I said in my first post, we rarely see over 50-54C during normal use.

Furthermore, in Intel formus:

http://softwarecommunity.intel.com/i.../30231590.aspx

An Intel rep (I believe) writes:

Quote:
This post is the technical response from the engineers who wrote the documentation. Here is an excerpt that applies to the E4300, an Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo processor:

Some steppings of the mobile Intel® Core™2 processor do indicate Tj to be approximately 85 or 100 via a single bit in the EXT_CONFIG register (msr 0EEh) but desktop, workstation and server processors do not. Nor is there a register implemented in those processors that software can read to get the Tj value for either the Pentium® 4 processor, Intel® Xeon® processors or Intel® Core™2 processors.
Additionally, Intel reports the Thermal Specification for the E4300 as 61.4C.

Quote:
Thermal Specification: The thermal specification shown is the maximum case temperature at the maximum Thermal Design Power (TDP) value for that processor. It is measured at the geometric center on the topside of the processor integrated heat spreader. For processors without integrated heat spreaders such as mobile processors, the thermal specification is referred to as the junction temperature (Tj). The maximum junction temperature is defined by an activation of the processor Intel® Thermal Monitor. The Intel Thermal Monitor’s automatic mode is used to indicate that the maximum TJ has been reached.
So...there's no way to determine the true Tj of the C2D chips, though Intel reports a Thermal Specification of 61.4C. What does this mean?!

CoreTemp95 shows Tjunction as 100 and my temps as 68 in the screenshot above. So, while I'm running at my hottest at 77C, I'm not even dangerously close to 100C.

The more I learn about 4300 temperatures, the more confused I get.

-Paul
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post #4 of 17
Are you sure you need 1.4v for the CPU?
Have you set Vcore to auto and tried yet?

EDIT> Ah I see now.
What vcore does Auto give you?
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post #5 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by P.Johnston View Post
In bios, I can go with Auto (which is pretty low)--manual settings begin at 1.40 (the lowest) and go way up from there.

I'm running 1.40 in BIOS, and now see temps higher than Auto, but it's more stable under Doom 3 with 1.40v.


I am not overly concerned about temps, as I said in my first post, we rarely see over 50-54C during normal use.

Furthermore, in Intel formus:

http://softwarecommunity.intel.com/i.../30231590.aspx

An Intel rep (I believe) writes:



Additionally, Intel reports the Thermal Specification for the E4300 as 61.4C.



So...there's no way to determine the true Tj of the C2D chips, though Intel reports a Thermal Specification of 61.4C. What does this mean?!

CoreTemp95 shows Tjunction as 100 and my temps as 68 in the screenshot above. So, while I'm running at my hottest at 77C, I'm not even dangerously close to 100C.

The more I learn about 4300 temperatures, the more confused I get.

-Paul

Here is what I know..

Intel told me 61.4C T_case max for the E4300.. No one seems to know how to figure T_case.. There is another method of reading the DTS for the cpu.. TAT does this and so does CoreTemp.. IDK why this is, but when I figure the DTS under load, and compare that to TAT and CoreTemp, TAT is around 7C higher and CoreTemp is no more than 2C off..

As far as T_case goes, for now we figure that T_case is the DTS results.. So I'm sticking with CoreTemp for now... But IMHO I think we have a little more room in temps to oc..
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post #6 of 17
LAP it, I bet that thing is concave like a ...
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post #7 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuNcHeR23 View Post
Here is what I know..

Intel told me 61.4C T_case max for the E4300.. No one seems to know how to figure T_case.. There is another method of reading the DTS for the cpu.. TAT does this and so does CoreTemp.. IDK why this is, but when I figure the DTS under load, and compare that to TAT and CoreTemp, TAT is around 7C higher and CoreTemp is no more than 2C off..

As far as T_case goes, for now we figure that T_case is the DTS results.. So I'm sticking with CoreTemp for now... But IMHO I think we have a little more room in temps to oc..
CoreTemp also lists Tjunction at 100C, which I read as a maximum value (otherwise, why list it?). If that is the case, then we do indeed have a little more room to o/c, and I shouldn't really worry about 77C under 100% load (especially since, as the graph shows, it isn't sustained).

What I've not seen anybody do is conclusively and logically demonstrate the relationship between Intel's definition of T_case and T_junction, in relation to:

CoreTemp94
CoreTemp95
TAT
Speedfan
Asus Monitor
Etc.



----

Since changing my system settings from Vcore "Auto" to Vcore 1.40 (lowest manual setting in BIOS 1804 for my mobo), my idle temps went from 36-37, to 43C. So my Zalman CNPS-7000A-Cu heatsink rates 43 idle to 77 load for a E4300 @ 3.0GHz (334x9).

I'm not really into the whole lapping thing. Eyeballing the chip, it looked reasonably flat and the Zalman looked to be the definition of flat. At any rate, I've removed the heatsink once and the AS5 seems sufficiently "squished" to indicate good heatsink-to-chip contact--leaving me to question any significant dips or valleys.

Thanks again,

Paul
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post #8 of 17
Those temps look way too high for 1.4 Voltage, try reseating your heatsink and thining out your thermal compound.
post #9 of 17
Something is wrong with those temps, I get alot lower temps with my 6400 even with stock cooling at 3ghz... Have you tried reseating your Zalman?
post #10 of 17
I'd turn down that overclock till you got reasonable temps, and yeah try reseating etc.
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