Overclock.net › Forums › Cooling › Water Cooling › May need to lap or bow?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

May need to lap or bow?

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
I've had my Apogee GT and 220 Rad in for a few days now and I'm trying to decide if my expectations are too high or if there is something odd going on with my CPU IHS and the water block. Here's all the temps I've taken:

Ambient: 26.1C
Rad Intake: 27.4 (Temp at where air enters into the rad)
Water Idle: 31.4 (Taken from reservoir)
Water Load: 33.4

These to me all seem good, 1C difference in ambient to intake, most likely from my PSU exhaust. 4C beetween intake and idle water, seems good and 33.4 at load water temp is 6C from intake, good as well (I have my 220 fans at about 80%). I'm using the Swiftech pump as well and its overall throughput looks good.

Now to the CPU temps:

E6600 @ 3.52Ghz 1.425v
TAT Idle: 40c/40c
Orthos Small FFT: 57C/59C (10 Minutes)

Between the load water being 33.4 and the load CPU being at 58/59C that's a delta of 26C almost -- Seems very high to me, sure it could be a hot CPU, but 1.425v on an e6600 I didn't think created that much heat to push such a wide gap. I was expecting more around a 15-20C delta max.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

P-
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
E6600 @ 3.52Ghz EVGA 680i SLI 8800GTX (650/1000) Corsair 2GB PC6400-C4 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2x WD 74GB Raptor Raid 0 1x 300GB Caviar Samsung 18x DVD RW Windows XP Samsung 24" 244T Widescreen 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G15 Thermaltake 750w Antec 900 Logitech G5 Laser 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
E6600 @ 3.52Ghz EVGA 680i SLI 8800GTX (650/1000) Corsair 2GB PC6400-C4 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2x WD 74GB Raptor Raid 0 1x 300GB Caviar Samsung 18x DVD RW Windows XP Samsung 24" 244T Widescreen 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G15 Thermaltake 750w Antec 900 Logitech G5 Laser 
  hide details  
Reply
post #2 of 14
Those temps really sound out of the range, have you even applied thermal paste? And if you have, how much?
#well
(19 items)
 
Lenovo L530
(8 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 4770k Gigabyte Z87X-UD4H XFX Radeon HD 6950 Corsair CMX8GX3M2A2000C9 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Samsung EVO 840 Hitachi HDS722020ALA330 Generic DVD±RW Burner Noctua NH-D14 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Windows 8.1 Dell U2711 LG W2453 Ducky DK9008 Overclock.net Edition, Cherry MX B... 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair TX850 Antec Three Hundred Corsair Raptor M40 QPAD HeatoN M 
AudioAudioAudio
E-MU Tracker|pre Beyerdynamic DT-770 250 Ohm AntLion ModMIc 
CPUGraphicsRAMRAM
Intel Ivy Bridge 3210M Intel HD 4000 Graphics Soldered Corsair Vengeance  
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
500GB DVD-+RW Windows 7 Professional 1600x900 
  hide details  
Reply
#well
(19 items)
 
Lenovo L530
(8 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 4770k Gigabyte Z87X-UD4H XFX Radeon HD 6950 Corsair CMX8GX3M2A2000C9 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Samsung EVO 840 Hitachi HDS722020ALA330 Generic DVD±RW Burner Noctua NH-D14 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Windows 8.1 Dell U2711 LG W2453 Ducky DK9008 Overclock.net Edition, Cherry MX B... 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair TX850 Antec Three Hundred Corsair Raptor M40 QPAD HeatoN M 
AudioAudioAudio
E-MU Tracker|pre Beyerdynamic DT-770 250 Ohm AntLion ModMIc 
CPUGraphicsRAMRAM
Intel Ivy Bridge 3210M Intel HD 4000 Graphics Soldered Corsair Vengeance  
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
500GB DVD-+RW Windows 7 Professional 1600x900 
  hide details  
Reply
post #3 of 14
Thread Starter 
Yes, I've remounted the block on the CPU 2 times, each time with AS5 and each time following their instructions. Not the rice grain method, but the one for dual cores as outlined in their guide.

I'm wondering if the IHS is bowed, but I wanted to check if these ranges are within 'standard' operational ranges or not and if anyone had any other thoughts before I take the block off and bow it or lap the 6600.

P-
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
E6600 @ 3.52Ghz EVGA 680i SLI 8800GTX (650/1000) Corsair 2GB PC6400-C4 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2x WD 74GB Raptor Raid 0 1x 300GB Caviar Samsung 18x DVD RW Windows XP Samsung 24" 244T Widescreen 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G15 Thermaltake 750w Antec 900 Logitech G5 Laser 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
E6600 @ 3.52Ghz EVGA 680i SLI 8800GTX (650/1000) Corsair 2GB PC6400-C4 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2x WD 74GB Raptor Raid 0 1x 300GB Caviar Samsung 18x DVD RW Windows XP Samsung 24" 244T Widescreen 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G15 Thermaltake 750w Antec 900 Logitech G5 Laser 
  hide details  
Reply
post #4 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piercer View Post
Yes, I've remounted the block on the CPU 2 times, each time with AS5 and each time following their instructions. Not the rice grain method, but the one for dual cores as outlined in their guide.

I'm wondering if the IHS is bowed, but I wanted to check if these ranges are within 'standard' operational ranges or not and if anyone had any other thoughts before I take the block off and bow it or lap the 6600.

P-

Rice grain method can be used. You have a single physical die processor.

Temps are way out of range. My Apogee vanilla is giving me a delta of 6-7C.
Once again...
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 [4.28GHz, HT] Asus P6T + Broadcom NetXtreme II VisionTek HD5850 [900/1200] + Galaxy GT240 2x4GB G.Skill Ripjaw X [1632 MHz] 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Intel X25-M 160GB + 3xRAID0 500GB 7200.12 Window 7 Pro 64 Acer H243H + Samsung 226BW XARMOR-U9BL  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec Truepower New 750W Li Lian PC-V2100 [10x120mm fans] Logitech G9 X-Trac Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
Once again...
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 [4.28GHz, HT] Asus P6T + Broadcom NetXtreme II VisionTek HD5850 [900/1200] + Galaxy GT240 2x4GB G.Skill Ripjaw X [1632 MHz] 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Intel X25-M 160GB + 3xRAID0 500GB 7200.12 Window 7 Pro 64 Acer H243H + Samsung 226BW XARMOR-U9BL  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec Truepower New 750W Li Lian PC-V2100 [10x120mm fans] Logitech G9 X-Trac Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
post #5 of 14
Seems pretty hot to me...I measure my coolant temp right before the rad and right after and my hot side is never over 2-3.5C higher then room ambient and the cold side is almost always 1C above room ambient....So your res coolant shouldn't be that high.....I'm with everyone else re-seat and go from there...
My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
E8600 4545Mhz*9 w/1.29V DFI DK P45 XFX 8800 GS D9GKX & D9GMH 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSPower
2x Seagate 160 Perp. RD-1 2x Asus Vista Premium Corsair HX 620 
Case
Open Bench 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
E8600 4545Mhz*9 w/1.29V DFI DK P45 XFX 8800 GS D9GKX & D9GMH 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSPower
2x Seagate 160 Perp. RD-1 2x Asus Vista Premium Corsair HX 620 
Case
Open Bench 
  hide details  
Reply
post #6 of 14
Thread Starter 
Yeat it is strange, I'll try to reseat it again tonight, I must be overlooking something, which is why I started thinking it might be the surface of the IHS.

BTW, the temps I posted of:

Ambient: 26.1C
Rad Intake: 27.4 (Temp at where air enters into the rad)
Water Idle: 31.4 (Taken from reservoir)
Water Load: 33.4

My setup goes like this:

Rad Out -> CPU -> Res -> Pump -> GPU -> NB -> Rad In

So, 31.4C is water temp after it's passed the CPU, I don't, today, have anyway to measure Rad-In / Rad-Out temps. Though, I suppose I could tape the temp sensor to the hose and get a relative reading.

IRA-K, is that load or idle water temp you're referring to when you say 'hot side is never over 2-3.5C higher then room ambient'??

P-
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
E6600 @ 3.52Ghz EVGA 680i SLI 8800GTX (650/1000) Corsair 2GB PC6400-C4 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2x WD 74GB Raptor Raid 0 1x 300GB Caviar Samsung 18x DVD RW Windows XP Samsung 24" 244T Widescreen 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G15 Thermaltake 750w Antec 900 Logitech G5 Laser 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
E6600 @ 3.52Ghz EVGA 680i SLI 8800GTX (650/1000) Corsair 2GB PC6400-C4 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2x WD 74GB Raptor Raid 0 1x 300GB Caviar Samsung 18x DVD RW Windows XP Samsung 24" 244T Widescreen 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G15 Thermaltake 750w Antec 900 Logitech G5 Laser 
  hide details  
Reply
post #7 of 14
What radiator are you using? Is it possible that there is air trap in the rad still and you are not getting its full potential?
Once again...
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 [4.28GHz, HT] Asus P6T + Broadcom NetXtreme II VisionTek HD5850 [900/1200] + Galaxy GT240 2x4GB G.Skill Ripjaw X [1632 MHz] 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Intel X25-M 160GB + 3xRAID0 500GB 7200.12 Window 7 Pro 64 Acer H243H + Samsung 226BW XARMOR-U9BL  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec Truepower New 750W Li Lian PC-V2100 [10x120mm fans] Logitech G9 X-Trac Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
Once again...
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 [4.28GHz, HT] Asus P6T + Broadcom NetXtreme II VisionTek HD5850 [900/1200] + Galaxy GT240 2x4GB G.Skill Ripjaw X [1632 MHz] 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Intel X25-M 160GB + 3xRAID0 500GB 7200.12 Window 7 Pro 64 Acer H243H + Samsung 226BW XARMOR-U9BL  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec Truepower New 750W Li Lian PC-V2100 [10x120mm fans] Logitech G9 X-Trac Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
post #8 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piercer View Post
Yeat it is strange, I'll try to reseat it again tonight, I must be overlooking something, which is why I started thinking it might be the surface of the IHS.

BTW, the temps I posted of:

Ambient: 26.1C
Rad Intake: 27.4 (Temp at where air enters into the rad)
Water Idle: 31.4 (Taken from reservoir)
Water Load: 33.4

My setup goes like this:

Rad Out -> CPU -> Res -> Pump -> GPU -> NB -> Rad In

So, 31.4C is water temp after it's passed the CPU, I don't, today, have anyway to measure Rad-In / Rad-Out temps. Though, I suppose I could tape the temp sensor to the hose and get a relative reading.

IRA-K, is that load or idle water temp you're referring to when you say 'hot side is never over 2-3.5C higher then room ambient'??

P-
Yeah thats at load..I run mine res-pump-rad-cpu-res...So my hot side temp is after it has gone through the cpu also..I knock off 1.5-2.5C across my rad....Now these temp's are when i was using plain WC'ing before I put a Pelt in the loop...Straight edge the top of you IHS while your re-mounting it could be cupped or something...Wouldn't hurt to do the same to your WB while you have it off....And as Ducky said lay your rad over on its side and shake it some to make sure all the air is out of it...
My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
E8600 4545Mhz*9 w/1.29V DFI DK P45 XFX 8800 GS D9GKX & D9GMH 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSPower
2x Seagate 160 Perp. RD-1 2x Asus Vista Premium Corsair HX 620 
Case
Open Bench 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
E8600 4545Mhz*9 w/1.29V DFI DK P45 XFX 8800 GS D9GKX & D9GMH 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSPower
2x Seagate 160 Perp. RD-1 2x Asus Vista Premium Corsair HX 620 
Case
Open Bench 
  hide details  
Reply
post #9 of 14
I don't think your idle is high

With a 23C ambient right now, I still get TAT idle temps at 39C, but my load is better.

With orthos small ftt my TAT load temp is about 45C and my CPU water temperature is about 24C which can climb another 1-2C at most.

Strange thing about idle/load deltas is I've heard at least one person that noted they had lower idle temps using an apogee vs a D-tek Fuzion, however the load temp on the Fuzion was much lower than the apogee. That doesn't quite make sense to me other than perhaps the apogee base is thinner.

Anyway, I still can't quite put my finger on why my idle temps are high, but my load temps aren't bad. Regardless load temps are what's more important, and I have seen my temps can go up as much as 5C by simply going from 3.3ghz to 3.5ghz. The C2Ds are great overclockers, but at that high an OC, they still generate alot of heat that's hard to remove even with water.

As far as the bow or not to bow question, the answer lyes within your thermal paste spread, if it's nice and thin in the middle where the die is...it probably won't help much, but if it's even all around or thick in the middle, the bowing would really help.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3930K ASrock X79 Ext7 Evga GTX570 CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Phoenix SSD+2TB Seagate drives ASUS DVD-RW combo Windows 7 28" Hanns-G HZ281 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
MS Natural Corsair TX650 Danger Den Torture Rack Logitech MX518 
Mouse Pad
Desk 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3930K ASrock X79 Ext7 Evga GTX570 CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Phoenix SSD+2TB Seagate drives ASUS DVD-RW combo Windows 7 28" Hanns-G HZ281 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
MS Natural Corsair TX650 Danger Den Torture Rack Logitech MX518 
Mouse Pad
Desk 
  hide details  
Reply
post #10 of 14
Thread Starter 
Thanks for everyone's feedback so far.

Here's an update:

Test #1:
I removed the block last night and pulled out my CPU. I ran a straight edge over it and it appears to be slightly concave in the middle, but when I say slight, I mean really slight. I did another 'experiment' where I rubbed some AS5 on a piece of glass real thin, and then put the IHS on the glass and lifted it. I did this 3-4 times, each time more AS5 gathered away from the center then in the center, and putting it on the glass and turning it slight it seemed to get as5 all over, so if it's concave, then it is very slight.

Test #2:
I did another test that yielded some interesting results as well. I put a thermometer in the reservoir (I could've watched temps on my monitor, but my system is a little hard to work on and watch the monitor at the same time), and while the system was running I put slight pressure on different parts of the block. Interestingly, over a very short period of time I was seeing jumps in tenths .1C (i.e. 30.1c -> 30.6c) while I was doing this, which is a very positive indicator that it's the way the block is seating itself on the IHS.

So here are my (4) options I've come up with:

A) The Apogee GT mounting bracket uses 'acorn' nuts (those are those ones that are rounded on one side so the screw doesn't pass all the way through) to mount the water block -- I'm sure this is so you don't 'squish' the CPU, I'm wondering if I should just get some wing-nuts to get a little 'extra' pressure on the block to the CPU, that's simple.

B) I lap the IHS on the e6600, sounds kinda cool to try anyhow.

C) I bow the Apogee block, this is my least favorite alternative, it's not the block so much as it is draining my system and fiddling with the block.

D) I do nothing, and just whine over the fact that my CPU goes from 38C->56C in 5 miliseconds.


P-
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
E6600 @ 3.52Ghz EVGA 680i SLI 8800GTX (650/1000) Corsair 2GB PC6400-C4 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2x WD 74GB Raptor Raid 0 1x 300GB Caviar Samsung 18x DVD RW Windows XP Samsung 24" 244T Widescreen 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G15 Thermaltake 750w Antec 900 Logitech G5 Laser 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
E6600 @ 3.52Ghz EVGA 680i SLI 8800GTX (650/1000) Corsair 2GB PC6400-C4 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2x WD 74GB Raptor Raid 0 1x 300GB Caviar Samsung 18x DVD RW Windows XP Samsung 24" 244T Widescreen 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G15 Thermaltake 750w Antec 900 Logitech G5 Laser 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Water Cooling
Overclock.net › Forums › Cooling › Water Cooling › May need to lap or bow?