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How harmful is long-term 1.5v vcore to a C2D when core temps are reasonable? - Page 3

post #21 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by MjrTom View Post
Hi Guys,

When discussing overclocking CPU's you need to take into account both Voltage and Temperature, they cannot be treated as separate parameters, they go hand in hand.

The main reason CPU's fail is due to electron migration.
Electron migration occurs when the flow of electrons through the CPU core architecture "jump gates" or erode the traces causing failure of the pathway or gate. This permanently disables this section of the cpu.

The main cause of this is elevated core voltage. As the voltage is increased the electron potential increasing the energy at the same time.

Temperature on the other hand plays a lesser role in CPU failure as Intel CPU have had "throttling" measures inbuilt into the architecture to prevent overheating.

For the older members of the forum, some of you will remember the older intel CPU's in particular the Northwoods.

These suffered from a recognised problem known as Sudden Northwood Death Syndrome (SNDS) whereby the CPU would have good load temperatures but at a certain voltage the CPU would just die, no slow decline..... Poof... Dead!

Im not saying that this would happen with the newer C2D processors but the electrical engineering principles are the same.

Remember its BOTH voltage and Temperature that shorten the lifespan of a CPU
Well said, I have only gone as high as 1.5vCORE to bench. Electron migration is very likely to occur at voltages that high or higher given prolonged exposure.
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post #22 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by MjrTom View Post
Remember its BOTH voltage and Temperature that shorten the lifespan of a CPU
Thumbs up for common sense.
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post #23 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterKromm View Post
Well said, I have only gone as high as 1.5vCORE to bench. Electron migration is very likely to occur at voltages that high or higher given prolonged exposure.
Thanks.

Ive posted comments like this quite regulary since it is an often overlooked concept.

If you think about it for a moment, people using phase change <-50*C can still kill a CPU by electron migration even though their temperatures are excellent.

I personally have had my experiences in this. I killed a Northwood DEAD! when trying to overlock from 2.4GHz to 4GHz. The CPU worked fine at 1.65v all the way upto 3.6GHz. At this point with my over zealous overclocking i decided to increase it to 1.70v At this point the PC shutdown and the CPU expired.

"Good night Vienna"

Fortunately I had a spare processor to get me online again but it was an expensive mistake (Gallatin Core) that I would not like others to experience first hand
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post #24 of 46
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the input everybody. A lot to think about.

@CyberDruid: I'll definitely give your The Deleterious effects of overvoltage in the long term thread a good close read when i have more time this evening. Many thanks for the link.

For now, the new plan is to back it down to 3300mhz and see how much I can reduce the vcore and still keep it orthos stable.

Elwood
    
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post #25 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by MjrTom View Post
Hi Guys,

When discussing overclocking CPU's you need to take into account both Voltage and Temperature, they cannot be treated as separate parameters, they go hand in hand.

The main reason CPU's fail is due to electron migration.
Electron migration occurs when the flow of electrons through the CPU core architecture "jump gates" or erode the traces causing failure of the pathway or gate. This permanently disables this section of the cpu.

The main cause of this is elevated core voltage. As the voltage is increased the electron potential increasing the energy at the same time.

Temperature on the other hand plays a lesser role in CPU failure as Intel CPU have had "throttling" measures inbuilt into the architecture to prevent overheating.

For the older members of the forum, some of you will remember the older intel CPU's in particular the Northwoods.

These suffered from a recognised problem known as Sudden Northwood Death Syndrome (SNDS) whereby the CPU would have good load temperatures but at a certain voltage the CPU would just die, no slow decline..... Poof... Dead!

Im not saying that this would happen with the newer C2D processors but the electrical engineering principles are the same.

Remember its BOTH voltage and Temperature that shorten the lifespan of a CPU
This is exactly what I try to tell people. Everyone seems so concerned about keeping their temperatures within specification of Intel, but they will exceed Intel recommended voltage by a long shot.

Although I am not electrical engineer (I am an aerospace engineer major), I would suspect that voltage will actually play a larger role in the degrading of the CPU compared to the voltage (as you said).

I have been trying to spread this idea for a year or two now, unsuccessfully. People will still ramp up the voltages and then freak if their temperature goes 1C over Intel specs.
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post #26 of 46
yeah my days of Uber core voltage increasing are drawing to a close. I find my fun in trying to get the best overclock out of stock voltages. (in my case 1GHz overclock on stock v core)

Until they can start reducing the TDP of these processors im leaving the uber overclocks to you guys.

Im a wimp now, fried too much hardware and the phrase "silence is golden" has more weight than it used too
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post #27 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by MjrTom View Post
yeah my days of Uber core voltage increasing are drawing to a close. I find my fun in trying to get the best overclock out of stock voltages. (in my case 1GHz overclock on stock v core)

Until they can start reducing the TDP of these processors im leaving the uber overclocks to you guys.

Im a wimp now, fried too much hardware and the phrase "silence is golden" has more weight than it used too
I have gone from "how high can I overclock" to a more conservative stance. My Xeon 3060 can do 4.0Ghz, but I am perfectly content at 3.0Ghz (333Mhz x 9) at stock voltages (even less). I just don't need the power.
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post #28 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldovi View Post
I have gone from "how high can I overclock" to a more conservative stance. My Xeon 3060 can do 4.0Ghz, but I am perfectly content at 3.0Ghz (333Mhz x 9) at stock voltages (even less). I just don't need the power.
If your not using it for gaming then it doesn;t worth to push the poor guy, Xeon was it?, weird name if you ask me.. Ahem yeah..
    
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post #29 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by weltall View Post
If your not using it for gaming then it doesn;t worth to push the poor guy, Xeon was it?, weird name if you ask me.. Ahem yeah..
Yeah the Xeons are to Core 2 Duo what Opterons are to Athlon64

They are the "Server/enterprise" versions of the desktop CPU range
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post #30 of 46
oops. NVM. didnt notice the 2 last pages.
where'd the delete button go?
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