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How harmful is long-term 1.5v vcore to a C2D when core temps are reasonable? - Page 4

post #31 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by MjrTom View Post
Yeah the Xeons are to Core 2 Duo what Opterons are to Athlon64

They are the "Server/enterprise" versions of the desktop CPU range
I was wondering.. they are designed for an 24/7 work right? Saw people calling them the "server" CPUs. Why they are not as good as pentium? I mean most people go pentium. Are they not designed to work well with games? The Xeons that is.
    
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post #32 of 46
I suppose I am justified of adding additional comments to this thread, as I have spare time currently.

Logically, you can not just simply state a maximum value for a particular model of processor. You can give a maximum recommended value, given the era.
Each processor contains slight variations at the design level that must be taken into account when defining an acceptable thermal, or power, level of a Micro Processor.
How we relate to this difference is the Week of Silicon that is used within the manufacture of these Micro Processors. The purity of the Silicon (which is a major element used in the construction of Micro Processors) is vital in the assumption.

In truth we quote a value which we recommend as the maximum voltage that the chip can sustain for an acceptable lifespan (this is approximately five years).
However, even if the chip was supplied with a voltage of 0.40v (Core 2 Duo with default operating voltage of 1.3250v) it would not last forever.

No matter what voltage value that is used the chip will still degrade, it can never be stopped in reality, just postponed with an extremely low voltage to as much as several hundred years perhaps.

MjrTom is partially correct with his assumption that Quantum Tunnelling is the effect that renders the Micro Processors un-operational after a certain period of time. However, this issue is far more related to the flow of electrons (Current).

Going into "low end" Physics we have a selection of basic formulas that are obeyed in our reality, and dimension (exception is past the Schwartz Radius, black hole [singularity]).

V=IR; (P=VI)

Given a constant temperature, or very similar temperature the Resistance will only suffer a minor change, as Resistance is affected by a change in thermal levels within a system (major factor).
When Voltage is increased it is logical to state that the Current (I) will also change.
When overclocking it is normal to increase the voltage, therefore increasing the Current. This is the major factor in the ability of Quantum Tunnelling.

Therefore, Voltage and Thermal Levels (Related to Resistance) are indeed important in the ability of a Micro processor to sustain itself.

I will not give you a maximum recommended value for the Core 2 Duo series, as the recommended value has changed due to revisions in the chip itself, including the increased purity of the Silicon used in its manufacturing.

As a comparison my E6600 (week 28) is capable of operating with a voltage of 1.625v for a lifetime of five years or greater without sustaining major damage, I do not know it's ability to sustain itself after that time frame (when my exams have been completed I will run you through how to estimate this).

The Life expectancy could be modelled by an exponential graph. Perhaps using an equation similar to the discharging of a capacitor (or equivalent) [V=Vo.e^(-t/RC)]

To thread starter: The choice is yours, if you have an early Core 2 Duo processor the voltage you have chosen (1.5v) is acceptable for a life expectancy of five years or greater, according to the manufacturer (not officially stated). With later processors you must be wary with the voltage selected.

Note: Silicon is capable of "multi oxidation states", and therefore is able to undergo more advanced electron transfer than elements with single or di-oxidation states (or equivalent). This is not in direct relation to the points expressed above.

...........................................

I am currently studying for my final Chemistry exam and have had my Engineering Books removed from my room, therefore I can not go into extreme depth on the full effects of additional voltage, Quantum Tunnelling, and equivalent
post #33 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by weltall View Post
I was wondering.. they are designed for an 24/7 work right? Saw people calling them the "server" CPUs. Why they are not as good as pentium? I mean most people go pentium. Are they not designed to work well with games? The Xeons that is.
The Xeon 3XXX series of processors are identical to the Core 2 Duo E6XXX. The only difference is they are of higher quality silicon.
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post #34 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Manual View Post
I suppose I am justified of adding additional comments to this thread, as I have spare time currently.

Logically, you can not just simply state a maximum value for a particular model of processor. You can give a maximum recommended value, given the era.
Each processor contains slight variations at the design level that must be taken into account when defining an acceptable thermal, or power, level of a Micro Processor.
How we relate to this difference is the Week of Silicon that is used within the manufacture of these Micro Processors. The purity of the Silicon (which is a major element used in the construction of Micro Processors) is vital in the assumption.

In truth we quote a value which we recommend as the maximum voltage that the chip can sustain for an acceptable lifespan (this is approximately five years).
However, even if the chip was supplied with a voltage of 0.40v (Core 2 Duo with default operating voltage of 1.3250v) it would not last forever.

No matter what voltage value that is used the chip will still degrade, it can never be stopped in reality, just postponed with an extremely low voltage to as much as several hundred years perhaps.

MjrTom is partially correct with his assumption that Quantum Tunnelling is the effect that renders the Micro Processors un-operational after a certain period of time. However, this issue is far more related to the flow of electrons (Current).

Going into "low end" Physics we have a selection of basic formulas that are obeyed in our reality, and dimension (exception is past the Schwartz Radius, black hole [singularity]).

V=IR; (P=VI)

Given a constant temperature, or very similar temperature the Resistance will only suffer a minor change, as Resistance is affected by a change in thermal levels within a system (major factor).
When Voltage is increased it is logical to state that the Current (I) will also change.
When overclocking it is normal to increase the voltage, therefore increasing the Current. This is the major factor in the ability of Quantum Tunnelling.

Therefore, Voltage and Thermal Levels (Related to Resistance) are indeed important in the ability of a Micro processor to sustain itself.

I will not give you a maximum recommended value for the Core 2 Duo series, as the recommended value has changed due to revisions in the chip itself, including the increased purity of the Silicon used in its manufacturing.

As a comparison my E6600 (week 28) is capable of operating with a voltage of 1.625v for a lifetime of five years or greater without sustaining major damage, I do not know it's ability to sustain itself after that time frame (when my exams have been completed I will run you through how to estimate this).

The Life expectancy could be modelled by an exponential graph. Perhaps using an equation similar to the discharging of a capacitor (or equivalent) [V=Vo.e^(-t/RC)]

To thread starter: The choice is yours, if you have an early Core 2 Duo processor the voltage you have chosen (1.5v) is acceptable for a life expectancy of five years or greater, according to the manufacturer (not officially stated). With later processors you must be wary with the voltage selected.

Note: Silicon is capable of "multi oxidation states", and therefore is able to undergo more advanced electron transfer than elements with single or di-oxidation states (or equivalent). This is not in direct relation to the points expressed above.

...........................................

I am currently studying for my final Chemistry exam and have had my Engineering Books removed from my room, therefore I can not go into extreme depth on the full effects of additional voltage, Quantum Tunnelling, and equivalent
A real human manual.. Amazing information. Lol.. I wonder if you took this nckname from real life >>

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldovi View Post
The Xeon 3XXX series of processors are identical to the Core 2 Duo E6XXX. The only difference is they are of higher quality silicon.
So in other words a Xeon 3300 will have longer life than E6600 and also higher ocing potential? I remember a comparison sheet that zxeon was a little better and i remember clearly the very high power consuption..
    
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post #35 of 46
this thread is an interesting read. it would be nice if intel and amd released some sort of official documentation on this subject but i guess that isn' going to happen
    
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post #36 of 46
Thanks TheManual, I was making an attempt (Badly) at recollecting what I had previously discussed with you in a thread about electron migration a year or so ago.

Thanks for clarifying the issue
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post #37 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Manual View Post
I suppose I am justified of adding additional comments to this thread, as I have spare time currently.

Logically, you can not just simply state a maximum value for a particular model of processor. You can give a maximum recommended value, given the era.
Each processor contains slight variations at the design level that must be taken into account when defining an acceptable thermal, or power, level of a Micro Processor.
How we relate to this difference is the Week of Silicon that is used within the manufacture of these Micro Processors. The purity of the Silicon (which is a major element used in the construction of Micro Processors) is vital in the assumption.

In truth we quote a value which we recommend as the maximum voltage that the chip can sustain for an acceptable lifespan (this is approximately five years).
However, even if the chip was supplied with a voltage of 0.40v (Core 2 Duo with default operating voltage of 1.3250v) it would not last forever.

No matter what voltage value that is used the chip will still degrade, it can never be stopped in reality, just postponed with an extremely low voltage to as much as several hundred years perhaps.

MjrTom is partially correct with his assumption that Quantum Tunnelling is the effect that renders the Micro Processors un-operational after a certain period of time. However, this issue is far more related to the flow of electrons (Current).

Going into "low end" Physics we have a selection of basic formulas that are obeyed in our reality, and dimension (exception is past the Schwartz Radius, black hole [singularity]).

V=IR; (P=VI)

Given a constant temperature, or very similar temperature the Resistance will only suffer a minor change, as Resistance is affected by a change in thermal levels within a system (major factor).
When Voltage is increased it is logical to state that the Current (I) will also change.
When overclocking it is normal to increase the voltage, therefore increasing the Current. This is the major factor in the ability of Quantum Tunnelling.

Therefore, Voltage and Thermal Levels (Related to Resistance) are indeed important in the ability of a Micro processor to sustain itself.

I will not give you a maximum recommended value for the Core 2 Duo series, as the recommended value has changed due to revisions in the chip itself, including the increased purity of the Silicon used in its manufacturing.

As a comparison my E6600 (week 28) is capable of operating with a voltage of 1.625v for a lifetime of five years or greater without sustaining major damage, I do not know it's ability to sustain itself after that time frame (when my exams have been completed I will run you through how to estimate this).

The Life expectancy could be modelled by an exponential graph. Perhaps using an equation similar to the discharging of a capacitor (or equivalent) [V=Vo.e^(-t/RC)]

To thread starter: The choice is yours, if you have an early Core 2 Duo processor the voltage you have chosen (1.5v) is acceptable for a life expectancy of five years or greater, according to the manufacturer (not officially stated). With later processors you must be wary with the voltage selected.

Note: Silicon is capable of "multi oxidation states", and therefore is able to undergo more advanced electron transfer than elements with single or di-oxidation states (or equivalent). This is not in direct relation to the points expressed above.

...........................................

I am currently studying for my final Chemistry exam and have had my Engineering Books removed from my room, therefore I can not go into extreme depth on the full effects of additional voltage, Quantum Tunnelling, and equivalent
How much do you make for a living, want a job in the states? Very informative, truely representing the information as non absolutes, but more guidelines. Thanks for the great info.
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post #38 of 46
MjrTom, the principal was right on

Quote:
this thread is an interesting read. it would be nice if intel and amd released some sort of official documentation on this subject but i guess that isn' going to happen
I wish that was the case too, and unofficially they have informed personnel at conferences and equivalent on certain values that they recommend.

However in reality do you really expect them to tell us an official value? It would sound like they are encouraging us to overclock our systems and void the Warranty bestowed upon the hardware. If this is the case there would be a possibility of lawsuits against them if the recommended parameters were met, but resulted in damage to the system within the operating time frame. They would not risk that, logically (would be amusing if they did, granted). I am not an expert in law, but I would assume a lawsuit could be initiated here.

Quote:
How much do you make for a living, want a job in the states? Very informative, truely representing the information as non absolutes, but more guidelines. Thanks for the great info.
A year or so ago, I would have most likely given you values that were in my opinion absolutes. However, having done work within this field of engineering and grasped Quantum Physics to a much mature degree I have seen that we could not generate absolutes for just a series of processors, as they are all different in some respect, be it Silicon Purity, Silicon Dioxide Purity etc.

Guidelines are what they are, recommended values. If the public wish to breach these guidelines it is their choice, they are there to protect the computer system from additional harm. Granted, some processors will run happily over these guidelines for many years, they are just, what I suppose, what we could call an average for a particular era of Micro Processor.

I admit I have breached these guidelines before that I recommend to people, having my E6600 operating at 1.70v (4200MHz) for two days, even though getting repeated thermal warnings (70C+).

As for my job, I currently do not have one, but will be looking into a job while studying Computer Systems Engineering at the University of Lancaster in October. I believe there is a computer repair shop on site that will do, for the time being
post #39 of 46
well..aside from all the long winded explanations...I have one.

I've run my e6700 around 1.46-1.61vcore since I bought it last year. It runs daily at 3.8ghz and is on 24/7...NO exceptions. It never exceeds 54c, and has yet to give me any problems. It has also survived a few runs to 4.1ghz. So...no, I cant answer your question like the manual, but I can vouch for the level of abuse these cpu's can handle. I wouldn't think twice of a 1.5vcore, as long as my temps were good. I don't plan on keeping this cpu 4ever anyhow.
post #40 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by byteframe View Post
I'm working on testing a >1.5v on a e6600, 1:1 linked synced on evga 680i, 400x9=3600 mhz.

So this thread is pertinent to me. Is 1:1 NOT all that and a bag of ****? Why not? My temps vary with the weather, but when I get into the school year (autumn) they shouldnt scare me as much.

1:1 is bad? >1.5 isnt bad? Share wisom please.
It's the other way around...show proof that high voltage on a CPU which is running at a reasonable temperature is bad. I've never seen any proof that high Vcore is bad.

RE: 1:1 if you have 1:1 and you have not sacrificed overall RAM frequency or timings to get there, great. Only SiSandra RAM benchmarks will tell you for sure if 1:1 is better than 2:3 with tighter timings and/or higher ram frequencies.

RAM on the other hand. Very sensitive to over voltage conditions. Never run your RAM at a voltage rated much higher than it states on the module. Not without active cooling anyway.
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