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How harmful is long-term 1.5v vcore to a C2D when core temps are reasonable? - Page 5

post #41 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberDruid View Post
MCH is a bigger risk to increase than Vcore or so it would see--but running at 1.5 is well beyond the intedned operational parameters and will decrease the overall stability. When people imagine lifespan they think--oh all of a sudden it goes poof--but what happens is your OC becomes a little quirk--random freezes--the occasional failure to boot or a lock up or a BSOD that only happens every so often--then more often then finally no matter how much voltage you pound it with it does not OC at all and then finally it becomes unstable at stock and then finally it shows up on Bay

Except for the eBay part I know that story intimately.
There is ONLY one way to settle this. That is to run the CPU at high voltage under extreme loads, pop the cover off the CPU and analyze the die in an electron microscope.

Until you do that...it's all speculation. Speculation and 2.50$ will buy you a cup of coffee.
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post #42 of 46
I tend to agree w/ franky.

I still own a lot [at least 5] cpu's that have been oc'd hard for years. My 1.8A @ 2.9ghz is a daily user, as are a few others...they all have 'sported' 1.5vcores or better..and still are. Hell the 1.8A is from, 1994 me thinks. My 630j ran @ 3.9ghz for 2yrs, before the mobo blew...the cpu is still at 3.4ghz on a crap ECS as a daily user now..its my sons.

A lot of wind, for a short point-> I have yet to ruin any cpu due to excessive voltage or OC, even @ a 1ghz oc or better for 24/7 use.
post #43 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Manual View Post
I suppose I am justified of adding additional comments to this thread, as I have spare time currently.

Logically, you can not just simply state a maximum value for a particular model of processor. You can give a maximum recommended value, given the era.
Each processor contains slight variations at the design level that must be taken into account when defining an acceptable thermal, or power, level of a Micro Processor.
How we relate to this difference is the Week of Silicon that is used within the manufacture of these Micro Processors. The purity of the Silicon (which is a major element used in the construction of Micro Processors) is vital in the assumption.

In truth we quote a value which we recommend as the maximum voltage that the chip can sustain for an acceptable lifespan (this is approximately five years).
However, even if the chip was supplied with a voltage of 0.40v (Core 2 Duo with default operating voltage of 1.3250v) it would not last forever.

No matter what voltage value that is used the chip will still degrade, it can never be stopped in reality, just postponed with an extremely low voltage to as much as several hundred years perhaps.

MjrTom is partially correct with his assumption that Quantum Tunnelling is the effect that renders the Micro Processors un-operational after a certain period of time. However, this issue is far more related to the flow of electrons (Current).

Going into "low end" Physics we have a selection of basic formulas that are obeyed in our reality, and dimension (exception is past the Schwartz Radius, black hole [singularity]).

V=IR; (P=VI)

Given a constant temperature, or very similar temperature the Resistance will only suffer a minor change, as Resistance is affected by a change in thermal levels within a system (major factor).
When Voltage is increased it is logical to state that the Current (I) will also change.
When overclocking it is normal to increase the voltage, therefore increasing the Current. This is the major factor in the ability of Quantum Tunnelling.

Therefore, Voltage and Thermal Levels (Related to Resistance) are indeed important in the ability of a Micro processor to sustain itself.

I will not give you a maximum recommended value for the Core 2 Duo series, as the recommended value has changed due to revisions in the chip itself, including the increased purity of the Silicon used in its manufacturing.

As a comparison my E6600 (week 28) is capable of operating with a voltage of 1.625v for a lifetime of five years or greater without sustaining major damage, I do not know it's ability to sustain itself after that time frame (when my exams have been completed I will run you through how to estimate this).

The Life expectancy could be modelled by an exponential graph. Perhaps using an equation similar to the discharging of a capacitor (or equivalent) [V=Vo.e^(-t/RC)]

To thread starter: The choice is yours, if you have an early Core 2 Duo processor the voltage you have chosen (1.5v) is acceptable for a life expectancy of five years or greater, according to the manufacturer (not officially stated). With later processors you must be wary with the voltage selected.

Note: Silicon is capable of "multi oxidation states", and therefore is able to undergo more advanced electron transfer than elements with single or di-oxidation states (or equivalent). This is not in direct relation to the points expressed above.

...........................................

I am currently studying for my final Chemistry exam and have had my Engineering Books removed from my room, therefore I can not go into extreme depth on the full effects of additional voltage, Quantum Tunnelling, and equivalent
You = win

Anyways i liked being at 3600MHz at 1.5375 vcore on my E6600, it was completely stable but reached 56C on loads.
I kind of want to go back to it, but i am always worried about life expectancy and don't want to have to drop any $$ for a computer anytime soon.
I would think at 1.5vcore a cpu would last at least 5 years, assuming the temperatures are normal, it seems most people think this also.
N33d more 1nf0 on the subject plz
post #44 of 46
This is a very intriguing thread. I really wish people with experience of high vCore and long life CPUs would come forward, much like how Cl3p20 has. Or otherwise, people with hig vCores and vey short life span CPUs =P
post #45 of 46
Well I can tell you that my E6400 didnt like it getting 1.65 vcore thru it on phase for 24/7 for several months. I "think" it degraded some but I cant be certain since I never tried it on anything but phase for the longest time. I run it at 3.2ghz with 1.4vcore under water cooling now. It could have just been my imagination though.

My 6600 which has been running strong under my phase for some time now at 4.0ghz with 1.55vcore and no issues so far. It still oc's like allways and is as stable as it has been since I got it. I have even done a few benchmark sessions (about 20minutes) a few times at 1.7vcore running around 4.4 to 4.5ghz. I wouldnt do that for very long but I figured why not.

These were allways at _18c load or better temps with the average being somewhere around -24c full load and -45c idle.

But my results are very unscientific and I really dont know how long mine would last at these volts and temps. Would take some time to figure out.
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post #46 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Manual View Post
I suppose I am justified of adding additional comments to this thread, as I have spare time currently.

Logically, you can not just simply state a maximum value for a particular model of processor. You can give a maximum recommended value, given the era.
Each processor contains slight variations at the design level that must be taken into account when defining an acceptable thermal, or power, level of a Micro Processor.
How we relate to this difference is the Week of Silicon that is used within the manufacture of these Micro Processors. The purity of the Silicon (which is a major element used in the construction of Micro Processors) is vital in the assumption.

In truth we quote a value which we recommend as the maximum voltage that the chip can sustain for an acceptable lifespan (this is approximately five years).
However, even if the chip was supplied with a voltage of 0.40v (Core 2 Duo with default operating voltage of 1.3250v) it would not last forever.

No matter what voltage value that is used the chip will still degrade, it can never be stopped in reality, just postponed with an extremely low voltage to as much as several hundred years perhaps.

MjrTom is partially correct with his assumption that Quantum Tunnelling is the effect that renders the Micro Processors un-operational after a certain period of time. However, this issue is far more related to the flow of electrons (Current).

Going into "low end" Physics we have a selection of basic formulas that are obeyed in our reality, and dimension (exception is past the Schwartz Radius, black hole [singularity]).

V=IR; (P=VI)

Given a constant temperature, or very similar temperature the Resistance will only suffer a minor change, as Resistance is affected by a change in thermal levels within a system (major factor).
When Voltage is increased it is logical to state that the Current (I) will also change.
When overclocking it is normal to increase the voltage, therefore increasing the Current. This is the major factor in the ability of Quantum Tunnelling.

Therefore, Voltage and Thermal Levels (Related to Resistance) are indeed important in the ability of a Micro processor to sustain itself.

I will not give you a maximum recommended value for the Core 2 Duo series, as the recommended value has changed due to revisions in the chip itself, including the increased purity of the Silicon used in its manufacturing.

As a comparison my E6600 (week 28) is capable of operating with a voltage of 1.625v for a lifetime of five years or greater without sustaining major damage, I do not know it's ability to sustain itself after that time frame (when my exams have been completed I will run you through how to estimate this).

The Life expectancy could be modelled by an exponential graph. Perhaps using an equation similar to the discharging of a capacitor (or equivalent) [V=Vo.e^(-t/RC)]

To thread starter: The choice is yours, if you have an early Core 2 Duo processor the voltage you have chosen (1.5v) is acceptable for a life expectancy of five years or greater, according to the manufacturer (not officially stated). With later processors you must be wary with the voltage selected.

Note: Silicon is capable of "multi oxidation states", and therefore is able to undergo more advanced electron transfer than elements with single or di-oxidation states (or equivalent). This is not in direct relation to the points expressed above.

...........................................

I am currently studying for my final Chemistry exam and have had my Engineering Books removed from my room, therefore I can not go into extreme depth on the full effects of additional voltage, Quantum Tunnelling, and equivalent
Another excellent post from The Manual. Thank you for taking the time explaining all the cpu know-hows.
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