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Intel Core 2 Duo Has 'Non-Fixable' Bugs, OpenBSD Founder Alleges

post #1 of 148
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Quote:
With the recent release of a microcode reliability update on Microsoft's site that addresses a handful of Intel Core 2 processors, concern over the pervasiveness of bugs in some of the company's latest processors is growing, especially now that OpenBSD founder Theo de Raadt released his own rundown of outstanding, fixed, and what he deems as "non-fixable bugs."

In a post published to the Real World Technologies Web site, however, fellow developer Linus Torvalds said the bugs were of no consequence.

Details are still lacking about what, precisely, the June 22 patch fixes—not to mention how severe the actual bugs were—but in de Raadt's own words, some of the Intel's latest processors "are buggy as hell."

Additionally, "…some of these bugs don't just cause development/debugging problems," according to a de Raadt posting on a mailing list, "but will *ASSUREDLY* be exploitable from userland code."

If true, that could spell trouble for Intel on multiple fronts. As de Raadt notes, some of the errors found on Intel's latest errata (or error) list cannot be fixed via the standard microcode updates the chipmaker usually releases.

According to de Raadt, there are 20 to 30 of such bugs in Intel's latest errata list that cannot be worked around by operating systems and will be potentially exploitable
[Source: ExtremeTech]
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post #2 of 148
Hum. Let's hope this doesn't happen to AMD
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post #3 of 148
On the list there mostly nothing to bad, though in certain enviroments some of them could be causeing many people multiple headaches.
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post #4 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mebby View Post
On the list there mostly nothing to bad, though in certain enviroments some of them could be causeing many people multiple headaches.
Such as server enviroments...
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post #5 of 148
Hmmm.....interesting. I wonder how Intel will respond? If this is true, they might have to do a recall, but I can't see Intel recalling all C2D's.
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post #6 of 148
Man, all those bugs and those cpu's still rape all other cpu's. Imagine if it was all fixed...
    
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post #7 of 148
I doubt the bugs affect performance.

However i guess Intel either made a genuine mistake or becam complacent and started slacking. Lets hope it's not the latter.

So does this mean they will have to do a recall for all buggy CPU's
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post #8 of 148
leave it to open source to criticize something you have to pay for. of course, i haven't checked, but i've never heard anyone complain about C2D processsors. i've had mine for a few months, and never once had a problem. on the other side of the coin, i've never heard anyone complain about AMD either (fanboyism aside, of course)
post #9 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonX View Post
Such as server enviroments...
Looks ok for graphics though...

Let's see, todays score:

Intel = 30
AMD = 0

    
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post #10 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowrunner340 View Post
leave it to open source to criticize something you have to pay for. of course, i haven't checked, but i've never heard anyone complain about C2D processsors. i've had mine for a few months, and never once had a problem. on the other side of the coin, i've never heard anyone complain about AMD either (fanboyism aside, of course)
lol, they are pointing out what the hell is wrong since the people who you paid so much to don't want to tell you the specifics of it so you keep on buying their stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaytonCallihan View Post
Man, all those bugs and those cpu's still rape everything. Imagine if it was all fixed...
Then you would have a same speed CPU with no security loop holes

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdattilo View Post
Hmmm.....interesting. I wonder how Intel will respond? If this is true, they might have to do a recall, but I can't see Intel recalling all C2D's.
They did respond, they released a patch to fix a few errors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuclearjock View Post
Looks ok for graphics though...

Let's see, todays score:

Intel = 30
AMD = 0

Okay. Great.

Maybe you should read what the non-fixable bug's really are and how they affect your CPU

Quote:
AI65

When the temperature reaches an invalid temperature the CPU does not generate a Thermal interrupt even if a programmed threshold is crossed.

I don’t see how this is a security concern; maybe he meant AI56, which gives unpredictable behavior if you change the attributes of a PTE without fixing up the TLB; AI64 involves system management mode and AI67 involves VTX.
AI79

During a series of REP (repeat) store instructions a store may try to dispatch to memory prior to the actual completion of the instruction. This behavior depends on the execution order of the instructions, the timing of a speculative jump and the timing of an uncacheable memory store. […] When this erratum occurs, the processor may live lock and/or result in a system hang.

Unless the behavior depends on system memory inaccessible to userland, this could imply userland crasher exploit.

AI43

When a logical processor writes to a non-dirty page, and another logical- processor either writes to the same non-dirty page or explicitly sets the dirty bit in the corresponding page table entry, complex interaction with internal processor activity may cause unpredictable system behavior […] and hang.

Two userland processes on two different cores can race each other and hang the system?

AI39

When request for data from Core 1 results in a L1 cache miss, the request is sent to the L2 cache. If this request hits a modified line in the L1 data cache of Core 2, certain internal conditions may cause incorrect data to be returned to the Core 1.

Where the word “incorrect data†is errata code for “Zuul’s return as the Sta-Puft Marshmellow Man†—- two cores race each other, and a process gets the wrong cache line.

AI90

If code segment limit is set close to the end of a code page, then due to this erratum the memory page Access bit (A bit) may be set for the subsequent page prior to general protection fault on code segment limit. […] a non-accessed page which is present in memory and follows a page that contains the code segment limit may be tagged as accessed.

Theo says this is exploitable on operating systems other than OBSD; the A bit signals the VM system that a page has been accessed by the hardware.

AI99

Code #PF (Page Fault exception) is normally handled in lower priority order relative to both code #DB (Debug Exception) and code Segment Limit Violation #GP (General Protection Fault). Due to this erratum, code #PF may be handled incorrectly, if all of the following conditions are met:

*

A PDE (Page Directory Entry) is modified without invalidating the corresponding TLB (Translation Look-aside Buffer) entry
*

Code execution transitions to a different code page such that both:
o

The target linear address corresponds to the modified PDE
o

The PTE (Page Table Entry) for the target linear address has an A (Accessed) bit that is clear
*

One of the following simultaneous exception conditions is present following the code transition:
o

Code #DB and code #PF
o

Code Segment Limit Violation #GP and code #PF

Software may observe either incorrect processing of code #PF before code Segment Limit Violation #GP or processing of code #PF in lieu of code #DB.
People are going to be all over these bug's like virus's and windows.

If I had a C2D I would try to get my money back and when the next line of fixed CPU's come out get one of them.
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