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post #21 of 156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonX View Post
Now I didn't read the rest of the posts from this post, but I just wanted to say that you seriously need to try MMO's if you say they doesn't require skill. MMO's are 10 times more social games than FPS'es and many other genres.
THANK YOU gonX!

MMOs do require skill, but they are different from FPS. FPS require quick reflexes, and anticipation. MMOs require anticipation (a little less) , preparation, strategy (not as much as FPS)... It just kinda blends all together...
    
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post #22 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonX View Post
Now I didn't read the rest of the posts from this post, but I just wanted to say that you seriously need to try MMO's if you say they doesn't require skill. MMO's are 10 times more social games than FPS'es and many other genres.
Not to mention, if you want to be successful at many MMO's, namely certain classes rather in some cases, you have to be damn good at micro.
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post #23 of 156
MMO's are easy. They're called Massively online games because they appeal to the lowest common denominator. Keeping as many people happy as possible, which means keeping the game on "easy" mode.
I consider myself capable of excelling at any game. When it came to WoW, I was mediocre. It wasn't my skill, it wasn't the amount of time I spent on it, it was the fact that I hated raiding, and refused to turn up regularly to raids, and as such could not progress further into the game. When I refer to "progression" I obviously refer to my gear, which was medium-end. I had deep knowledge about all the other classes, and I was pretty nifty in a group. But, being an MMO, this knowledge was 100% useless. Alas, I got fed up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gonX View Post
Now I didn't read the rest of the posts from this post, but I just wanted to say that you seriously need to try MMO's if you say they doesn't require skill. MMO's are 10 times more social games than FPS'es and many other genres.
Runescape level 50. Two level 60 characters on WoW, and tonnes of alts. Both games ended up boring me to tears, and in the end were very unrewarding.
I tried getting into LOTRO but couldn't keep my eyes open, and quit at level 18.

Social? My friend loves WoW to death, raids regularly and yet is one of the most lonely people I know. I know the experience. Being part of a "guild" does not mean getting together in a social setting and working together. It involves being recruited by your future leader and being told what to do. And then to repeat it over and over. You are accepted on the strict condition that you raid regularly. I found the people on WoW to be particularly zombie-like. I mean, almost all of the good guild-conversations I had were completely pushed by me. People hardly want to talk. Let's not even get into Ventrilo (apparenlty were people go just before they fall asleep).
The social level of the game is irrelevant. If you need the game to be social in order to enjoy it, then you are spending too much time playing that game. Sure, the social aspect is a big part of any online game. But no amount of social engrossment can hide the fact that the game is boring. If the game sucks, bragging about the community is not going to save it.


@Tyr13
You over simplify FPS's. Consider the fact that they are online, and very competitive. You must coordinate your team to better the other, you must outsmart your opponent, and you must understand your weapons. The best chance you have of predicting and defeating your opponent is from experience and knowledge, which results in skill. Many of them (CSS for instance) are impossible to master, which is part of the fun.



Who finds farming fun? I remember having a conversation with my friend which later cracked me up:
Quote:
m "what are you doing?"
f "farming. I need money for my new mount"
m "oh, okay. That sounds fun! /sarcasm"
f "well no, it's not fun but once I get the money I can start having fun again!"
*I come back a week later*
m "what are you doing?"
f "farming. I got my mount but now I need something else"

My dislike of MMO's doesn't come from ignorance. I like a challenging game, with a lot of depth. And if it's an "RPG" some goddamn character development. Or at the very least a game I can laugh over with a few friends.

It is also good to note that the most zealous WoW players I know in real-life don't like other competitive and challenging games. This is how I view most long-term WoW players.

/My lengthy pretentious response.
post #24 of 156
Thread Starter 
Quote:
You over simplify FPS's. Consider the fact that they are online, and very competitive. You must coordinate your team to better the other, you must outsmart your opponent, and you must understand your weapons. The best chance you have of predicting and defeating your opponent is from experience and knowledge, which results in skill. Many of them (CSS for instance) are impossible to master, which is part of the fun.
Define "over simplify". I do not have the hardware to smoothly enjoy FPS games , that leaves me with console FPS, which use button glitches to get the most kills. I know that FPS takes skill, which is why I play them, on occasion.

Quote:
It is also good to note that the most zealous WoW players I know in real-life don't like other competitive and challenging games. This is how I view most long-term WoW players.
Just because you know some hardcore WoW players that don't like other games isn't true of the general population of WoW. Yes, they may feel that way, but take WoW from them, and they WILL find a game that they like, be it challenging or not.

Quote:
Social? My friend loves WoW to death, raids regularly and yet is one of the most lonely people I know.
I do not have much of a social life, you could say I'm one of the "loners" in my school. I turn to some games to make friends. Good or bad? You decide.
    
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post #25 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dempsey View Post
MMO's are easy. They're called Massively online games because they appeal to the lowest common denominator. Keeping as many people happy as possible, which means keeping the game on "easy" mode.
I consider myself capable of excelling at any game. When it came to WoW, I was mediocre. It wasn't my skill, it wasn't the amount of time I spent on it, it was the fact that I hated raiding, and refused to turn up regularly to raids, and as such could not progress further into the game. When I refer to "progression" I obviously refer to my gear, which was medium-end. I had deep knowledge about all the other classes, and I was pretty nifty in a group. But, being an MMO, this knowledge was 100% useless. Alas, I got fed up.



Runescape level 50. Two level 60 characters on WoW, and tonnes of alts. Both games ended up boring me to tears, and in the end were very unrewarding.
I tried getting into LOTRO but couldn't keep my eyes open, and quit at level 18.

Social? My friend loves WoW to death, raids regularly and yet is one of the most lonely people I know. I know the experience. Being part of a "guild" does not mean getting together in a social setting and working together. It involves being recruited by your future leader and being told what to do. And then to repeat it over and over. You are accepted on the strict condition that you raid regularly. I found the people on WoW to be particularly zombie-like. I mean, almost all of the good guild-conversations I had were completely pushed by me. People hardly want to talk. Let's not even get into Ventrilo (apparenlty were people go just before they fall asleep).
The social level of the game is irrelevant. If you need the game to be social in order to enjoy it, then you are spending too much time playing that game. Sure, the social aspect is a big part of any online game. But no amount of social engrossment can hide the fact that the game is boring. If the game sucks, bragging about the community is not going to save it.


@Tyr13
You over simplify FPS's. Consider the fact that they are online, and very competitive. You must coordinate your team to better the other, you must outsmart your opponent, and you must understand your weapons. The best chance you have of predicting and defeating your opponent is from experience and knowledge, which results in skill. Many of them (CSS for instance) are impossible to master, which is part of the fun.



Who finds farming fun? I remember having a conversation with my friend which later cracked me up:



My dislike of MMO's doesn't come from ignorance. I like a challenging game, with a lot of depth. And if it's an "RPG" some goddamn character development. Or at the very least a game I can laugh over with a few friends.

It is also good to note that the most zealous WoW players I know in real-life don't like other competitive and challenging games. This is how I view most long-term WoW players.

/My lengthy pretentious response.
All 3 of the MMOs you have played suck. Don't take an entire genre down because you haven't played a good game. It would be like be saying I hate FPSs because I've played Black & Star Wars Battlefront. If you want to see an insane MMO that requires tons of skill look at AO. There is more content in that game than you can even imagine.
    
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post #26 of 156
I've been playing EVE since December 2005.

I'm part of the corp LFC. This corp has been around a LONG time, and has alot of players that have been playing the game for over 3 years, and a better group of friends you could not find anywhere!

Wih them, i have been and done things in the game that i could never have even considered otherwise...

I've been part of 3rd Front Alliance, Lotka Volterra and now FATAL.

Just got my shiny new Eos the other day, and got it *** PWNED today, heh... oh well, easy come easy go.

I dont think MMO's get any more open ended than EVE-Online... Its a constantly changing environment.
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post #27 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyr13 View Post
Define "over simplify". I do not have the hardware to smoothly enjoy FPS games , that leaves me with console FPS, which use button glitches to get the most kills. I know that FPS takes skill, which is why I play them, on occasion.
over simplify = "FPS require quick reflexes, and anticipation". There is more to them than that. Halo is not a good example, though. Many FPS games don't require much more than good reflexes, and most of those games are popular on consoles. The popular PC ones (AvP series, Counter-strike, stalker) are pretty deep, though. It's a different experience.

Quote:
Just because you know some hardcore WoW players that don't like other games isn't true of the general population of WoW. Yes, they may feel that way, but take WoW from them, and they WILL find a game that they like, be it challenging or not.
It's still fair to say that most hardcore WoW players don't like challenging games. I'm guessing most of them, when sick of WoW, will just shift over to another well-known MMO. Although most of them are perfectly capable of enjoying a difficult and competitive game, I think they will tend to stick to the safer MMO genre.


Quote:
I do not have much of a social life, you could say I'm one of the "loners" in my school. I turn to some games to make friends. Good or bad? You decide.
Those are your own personal demons.
The way I see it is: -spending huge amounts of time on a social game will always lead to loneliness
-spending small amounts of time on a social game will not lead to lonliness, but the "social" factor of the game becomes unimportant.
Games are a very poor substitute for actual socializing.

Quote:
Posted by Snerp
All 3 of the MMOs you have played suck. Don't take an entire genre down because you haven't played a good game. It would be like be saying I hate FPSs because I've played Black & Star Wars Battlefront. If you want to see an insane MMO that requires tons of skill look at AO. There is more content in that game than you can even imagine.
Heh, they are the three most recommended MMO's I have come across. I've got my eyes on 'Starcraft 2, Left4Dead, and Spore'. I'm pretty open-minded about games but I can only keep track of so many games at a time - and MMO's have let me down 3 times so far.
I will give it a glance if you think it's awesome, though.
post #28 of 156
Quote:
Heh, they are the three most recommended MMO's I have come across. I've got my eyes on 'Starcraft 2, Left4Dead, and Spore'. I'm pretty open-minded about games but I can only keep track of so many games at a time - and MMO's have let me down 3 times so far.
I will give it a glance if you think it's awesome, though.
I've been playing MMOs for over 10 years now. It's my preferred genre of games. UO is the first MMO I played. It's out of date and has been screwed up by the developers. AO is also old, but it is by far the best MMO I have played. There are just so many options. The low level game play isn't very interesting and there are 220 levels last time I checked.

If you actually want a nice middle road game take a look at EQ2. It's quite a lot of fun. Not too hard, but it has a decent amount of content. Play on a PvP-Teams server. It makes it lots more fun.
    
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post #29 of 156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dempsey View Post
Games are a very poor substitute for actual socializing.
You must have been left out in the rain while a crap guild picked you up out of it. My guilds in Guild Wars (not an MMO, but close to it), and WoW both have great discussions about many things outside the virtual world.


Anyway, I'll probably talk it over with some friends, and see what they think.
    
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post #30 of 156
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Well... I'm seeing what it will be like later in the game, asking around to join a corp. Will have to see what comes up.

Still have to ask friends XD

How many people on here DO play EVE?
    
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