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Is New Chip AMD's Last Stand? - Page 4

post #31 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by trueg50 View Post
exactly, and also AMD no longer is faster than Intel clock for clock so how would AMD's running at an incredible 2.5 ghz or so matter?

http://www.overclockers.com/tips01174/

fun reading. Also all AMD performance chips run on a 90nm process and have a TDP of ~125 watts, what are Intel's running at? 65nm process and a TDP of ~105 watts
That's what their current parts are built on, once they start producing Phenom in volume, the majority is going to be 65nm. How do you know AMD's next gen is slower than the Core 2 clock for clock? What new info do you have?
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post #32 of 46
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/03/...ahertz_battle/

phenom is a tweaked K8, Penryn is a tweaked conroe.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...oc.aspx?i=2972

if this is a "tweaked" conroe, ouch for AMD. No benchmarks have been posted yet, but given the slow speeds of Barcelonas, their inability to "ramp-up" the speeds on them, and various yield problems, their SOI problems most certainly isn't just an isolated Barcelona problem, the whole processor division is having troubles.

Now why are all the AMD chips at 90nm still? if their process is perfect and barcelona is singing right along at 2.6 ghz, why is is delayed again and again, why are a handful of parts 65nm? with the other 90% at 90nm? A company doesn't delay a product, lying to the motherboard makers about the delay, if everything is on track.

http://www.overclockers.com/tips01174/ -yield problems

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=40805 -barcelona problems

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=40709 -barcelona problems

http://www.overclockers.com/tips01175/ Phenom delays

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=40738 supprise supprise, more barcelona problems.

enjoy the reading fellas
    
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post #33 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by trueg50 View Post

Now why are all the AMD chips at 90nm still? if their process is perfect and barcelona is singing right along at 2.6 ghz, why is is delayed again and again, why are a handful of parts 65nm? with the other 90% at 90nm?
All other things aside, 90% of their parts is just a BIT of a stretch. Half of their X2 lineup is available in 65nm, and they all overclock well. They just released them several months ago... it is what we call a transition process.

Also, the new brisbane 3600+'s are this year's Opteron 165 at less than half of the cost. A 1.9ghz chip that regularly hits 3ghz and costs $63 hardly screams 65nm yield/process issues to me.

They may be having trouble with getting the die images tuned in on the barcelona, but the Brisbanes are unarguably a success for a simple die shrink.

e: Many of the Windsor cores came out after the Brisbanes... this says to me that they used the Brisbanes to tune in their 65nm process, and now that they have the process itself working, they are transferring that market segment back to their 90nm fabs to allow them to pull the Brisbanes and switch the 65nm fabs over to Barcelona. Being that the Brisbanes have been in heavy production for several months now, they probably figured they could just switch over with no problems, and now that they have started to do so, they are encountering problems... hence the delay and poor yields.
post #34 of 46
they might be good overclockers, but why haven't the enthuseists chips hit 65nm yet? fx-7x's, fx-6x's are still 90nm, while smaller, older chips are at 65nm, why aren't the newer, more transistor heavy chips 65nm?

Some one else mentioned what is now happening, performance chips are now the realm of Intel, while cheap chips are AMD's sole life blood
    
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post #35 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by trueg50 View Post
they might be good overclockers, but why haven't the enthuseists chips hit 65nm yet? fx-7x's, fx-6x's are still 90nm, while smaller, older chips are at 65nm, why aren't the newer, more transistor heavy chips 65nm?

Some one else mentioned what is now happening, performance chips are now the realm of Intel, while cheap chips are AMD's sole life blood
It isn't like this is something new... here's a blast from the past:

Quote:
Originally Posted by xbitlabs (2004)
Athlon 64 4000+ and Athlon 64 FX-55 models. These processors will probably remain the fastest products AMD ever makes with its 130nm tech process. At the same time, without loud speeches, the company is also starting mass shipments of Socket 939 processors of the Athlon 64 family made with 90nm technology. The models on the new 90nm cores are going to hit straight at the heart of the market, their ratings ranging from 3000+ to 3500+.
AMD's enthusiast chips are always the last to transition. They debug their process on lower end chips and then release the enthusiast models once it is fully tuned in and yields are much higher, allowing them to profitably bin enthusiast chips. Remember everyone crying about how long this took ^^^ a few years ago?
post #36 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by iandh View Post
It isn't like this is something new... here's a blast from the past.. Remember everyone crying about how long this took ^^^ a few years ago?
nope, had a celeron 600 mhz up til a year ago, found an AMD XP2000 at a dump, then got into overclocking.

well, we shall see what AMD has up their sleeves, a company doesn't delay a product this much just for $h1ts and giggles. Only time will tell, on what September 22nd (Ish) I think the Barcelonas are supposed to be released in all their 2.0 ghz glory. Until then it will be a battle of the fanboys and microprocessor prophets, god speed iandh, you have proven a worthy adversary in our debate.
    
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post #37 of 46
Thread Starter 
I almost wonder...Is AMD doing somethign behind everyones backs?...Like, are they just all of the sudden going to jump to the 45nm process withought any prior notice?
post #38 of 46
Keep in mind ATI/AMD is set to come out with 65nm video cards first. Not only that, but Phenom are said to be 128-bit CPUs, Monolithic quad core, increased L2 Cache, and a sizeable clock for clock increase over K8. Considering C2D is about 50% faster clock for clock than K8 (rough estimate based on benches), and the possible advantages 128-bit and monolithic quad core could potentially provide, AMD is not out of the game yet.

Plus, K8 came out well after Pentium 4s did, and it still, in some ways, can compete with C2D in many instances (dual FX74s can beat QX6700s in some benchmarks). If it takes them forever to get this chip out, but it competes, and perhaps even holds its own against the next gen, then it will just be a repeat of last time.

Both camps are researching 45nm, 32nm, and even 25nm manufacturing processes, so who knows what may happen then. But if we always wait, we'll never upgrade.
    
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post #39 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacKz5o View Post
I bet Intel already has something better.. but they're not going to release it for a couple years so AMD can catch up so they won't be sued for having a monopoly.
Err...you don't get sued for having a monopoly?
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post #40 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosser13 View Post
Err...you don't get sued for having a monopoly?
You can be but, the conditions are really tight.
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