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FSB and Dividers: My Findings - Page 8

post #71 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx7speed View Post
agreed mr bungle
lets put this simple ok

higher cpu is good
higher fsb is good
higher memory speed is good
you want to get the highest of each of them. if you have to use some divider or multiplier to get it then fine. the goal again? get the highest of each.
you want more FSB speed but cpu can't handle. drop the multiplier.
want more ram speed but FSB can't handle it. use a divider.

in all honesty as long as you are not dealing with straps (A whole different issue and is motherboard dependent) it is that simple.
Best way I've seen it put yet. Rep+
    
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post #72 of 85
No offense....but a higher FSB and lower CPU multi being better for your system is somewhat common knowledge. >.> You usually get a higher OC through your CPU on the stock multi, though, assuming your mobo can handle it; so you gotta find out if it's worth it.

Problem is, the NB strap kicks in at 399, 400, or 401FSB depending on the motherboard. You're taking a hit on that too.
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post #73 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBungle View Post
this has been going on since before you got in on it. the original statement that started this all was something to the effect of running dividers can help your processor run faster. then Choggs took it and ran with it. he's been changing his argument since then, but he is still basically saying the same thing. he's had that thing in his sig about being right ever since.

but this whole thing is silly and i've grown tired of it. nobody ever recommended we spend a fortune on our RAM to get something that will run at twice our FSB. all they said was that if your memory can run faster than your FSB, it is possible to get more performance by doing it. i honestly don't know why Choggs has made such a big deal out of it.
Sorry, MB, but you're the one whose made it a point to try to tear apart Choggs' efforts here and 'make a big deal out of it'
.

In reading this thread over again, I see Choggs repeatedly stating that his testing was a crude example of what might be possible, depending on each rigs given hardware combination, and not hard data that was applicable to every rig in every situation.

You, on the other hand, I see consistently trying to put words in Choggs' mouth about what he is or is not trying to accomplish here. he's already accomplished the original stated goal by showing a definite, if small increase in performance for a given app by adjusting FSB but maintaining a given clock speed. He HAS shown that it is possible. Why you seem so intent on making his testing seem irrelevant when it is quite relevant to the topic at hand is beyond me.

Ill give you this much, Mr. Bungle, you've done a fine job at keeping the thread alive, if nothing else.
    
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post #74 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Witchfire View Post
he's already accomplished the original stated goal by showing a definite, if small increase in performance for a given app by adjusting FSB but maintaining a given clock speed.
uhh, i think it's time to work on your reading comprehension. you've managed to miss all the major points along the way. i think it's possible that everything in here went right over your head.
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post #75 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBungle View Post
uhh, i think it's time to work on your reading comprehension. you've managed to miss all the major points along the way. i think it's possible that everything in here went right over your head.
Funny.... you've been accused of the same thing here. Basically all that's been asked of people in this thread is to keep an open mind, but that seems to be above your capabilities.

I've caught the major points from the beginning, and it's quite arrogant of you to assume that anything here has 'gone over my head'.

For future reference, debate is a good thing, and this website is all about that. Debate assumes a capacity to look at things from various points of view, and an interest in gaining knowledge from others along the way. Arguing, on the other hand, has no intellectual interest, and does nothing to help the community here at large.

What you have been doing from the beginning here is pure argument for argument's sake. You refuse to consider any views, save your own. Obviously, noone here can offer you any information or knowledge above and beyond what you already possess, nor does anyone's theories have merit other than your own.

In closing, I offer you this for thought:
    
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post #76 of 85
hey witchfire are you sure your not confusing mr b with me?
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post #77 of 85
Wow. What a heated thread. I'd like to make a couple of points here...

1) For those who are saying "OOH HUGE PERFORMANCE INCREASE, WHO CARES?!" I don't see the performance increase as the reason that this information is useful. I look at this and see purchasing decision pertinence. "Should I buy the fastest, best RAM I can get? Or will I get just as good performance with something I can match with my CPU's FSB?" This is what sells the idea for me.

2) I have a suspicion that the arguments about how "Your processor can process more data than your ram can throw at it on a 1:1 setup!" are based on very little fact.
From what I gather about how the communication between CPU and memory (and all other components, really), it goes like this:
A 1:1 clock setup ensures that every time the processor is looking for data to process, it has it. Otherwise, what you're doing by dividing is merely allowing your RAM to perform controlled functions at a faster rate, then supplying data at only the rate your processor takes it (CPU bus). If your RAM is out of sync with your processor, it causes (very small) chokes in this system.

Of course, I'm not sure how this all plays out.
If that's true, it would be possible for 1:2 systems to perform better than 1:1 systems.... Or at least very similarly. Of course, you'd probably lose your timings if you went up to 1:2, for very little memory function performance gain.
But, also according to this theory, a 2:1 system may outperform a higher speed 2:3 system, or 4:5 system.

I'm not an expert, but this is how I understand it as working.
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post #78 of 85
few other things to throw a small kink in this puzzle that I can't answer. frequency is the end all. if you have a 10mhz bus and a 2 bit path vs a 2mhz bus with a 10bit path wouldn't they both transfer at the same rate then? how wide of a data path is the FSB vs the ram?

also think of the divider on the cpu. yes that can be considered a divider. it seems to work ok in that situation doesn't it?

also as far as it goes with latency I have found with my corsiar ram that I could run it at 1000mhz at 4-4-4-10 or at 800mhz at 4-4-4-8. so with that I have better latency at 1000mhz then I would at 800mhz. I can not achieve that frequency though through FSB speed alone.



EDIT: just wanted to add prodigy would you mind filling out your system specs? it would make it easier for us if refering to your stuf and is always nice to know what others have anyway. it's under the user cp
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post #79 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Witchfire View Post
You refuse to consider any views, save your own. Obviously, noone here can offer you any information or knowledge above and beyond what you already possess, nor does anyone's theories have merit other than your own.
i love how you step into this on Page 8 of the Thirteenth Act of this little show. no, buddy, i've run benchmarks. i've proven that a divider can increase performance. i even put up pretty pictures and graphs. you calling me argumentative just shows that you missed my first dozen or so posts on this subject.

the people that were willing to take the time to include links and hard numbers left this "debate" a long time ago and no longer care to discuss it with Choggs anymore, who is clearly more interested in proving he is right than he is in finding the truth. why else would he use 3DMark as a test for memory dividers?
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post #80 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBungle View Post
i love how you step into this on Page 8 of the Thirteenth Act of this little show. no, buddy, i've run benchmarks. i've proven that a divider can increase performance. i even put up pretty pictures and graphs. you calling me argumentative just shows that you missed my first dozen or so posts on this subject.

the people that were willing to take the time to include links and hard numbers left this "debate" a long time ago and no longer care to discuss it with Choggs anymore, who is clearly more interested in proving he is right than he is in finding the truth. why else would he use 3DMark as a test for memory dividers?
Notice post #2 in this thread genius. I've been following this subject since before Choggs started this thread. I just had enough sense to keep any comments to myself then until I had read more about it.

And for the last time... It was not just a memory test, it was a quick way to test overall system performance. 3DM is a standardized test that can and does show changes in overall system performance very well. Yes, it's very biased towards a GPU, but if the GPU doesn't change from test to test, it will be a constant, and changes in the score will reflect changes made to other parts of the configuration.

Just because his choice of testing doesn't fall into your narrow view of what is or isn't an acceptable method does not invalidate it. Sorry, but there ARE people who live outside your little personal bubble of reality.
    
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