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post #51 of 78
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post #52 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Savage View Post
Alright, fair enough, lets 'stick to the issues'...you says that:

"Capitalism is all about charging the most a person will pay for a product and be satisfied with said product"

person = us, end user.

chargor = corporation

who again will have to pay for priority bandwidth? Ahh the content provider. So then what regulation do you speak of? Government regulation? As far as I know there is no governing body in existence. So you are arguing against something that doesn't really exist.

But wait, there is a real issue we're dealing with right? Ahh yes, I get it! The regulation you speak of is actually coming from the ISP's. So now who should you be worried about?

Government Internet Regulation = Non existent.

Corporate Regulation = Real threat being faught by advocates of Net Neutrality.

You just proved that you don't know what "net neutrality" really entails. There is currently no real government regulation on the net, but net neutrality requires that the government get involved. Most likely it will be the FCC, or better yet, create a new agency for the job (tax payers are paying for it anyways ).
Corporate regulation? Profit is the name of the game, and keeping costumers happy is the best way to maximize profits. I guess you can consider basic business transactions as "product regulation".
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post #53 of 78
Does this mean no more internet radio?
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post #54 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melcar View Post
Profit is the name of the game, and keeping costumers happy is the best way to maximize profits. I guess you can consider basic business transactions as "product regulation".
Those two statements are so inherently flawed...I don't even know where to begin. You know what...someone just go and grab shovel, we'll go dig ole' Adam Smith and get the perspective straight from the corpses mouth

Cost marginalization, production capitation and market share capitalization are the name of the game. Keeping the customer happy is pleasant afterthought. Corporations see the majority of consumers as bleeting sheep, uninformed and apathetic. Consumer satisfaction is a marketing phrase, not a production tool.

Government regulation is a necessary facet in maintaining a "free market" system. That is a simple fact. Free enterprise when left to run its course produces Trusts, Monopolies and preferential business practices. Think back to the early and mid 80's when Laissez Affair e was the central principle of Reagonomics. It produced the S&L scandal that was the largest contributor to the most devastating recession in the Post-New Deal epoch.

Again...I am just failing to see how Fee For Bandwidth benefits the end-user...or anyone other than the ISPs.
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post #55 of 78
...well said Poser

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melcar View Post
You just proved that you don't know what "net neutrality" really entails. There is currently no real government regulation on the net, but net neutrality requires that the government get involved. Most likely it will be the FCC, or better yet, create a new agency for the job (tax payers are paying for it anyways ).
Corporate regulation? Profit is the name of the game, and keeping costumers happy is the best way to maximize profits. I guess you can consider basic business transactions as "product regulation".
(sighs) I think I figured you out Melcar, either you work for an ISP or you may have invested in an ISP company. Why else would you throw around these random comments...

Why should anyone believe what you're peddling? Anybody with a little time can read up on the issue and find out for themselves that: (From Wikipedia)

"advocate groups warned of the danger that broadband providers will use their power over the "last mile" to block applications they do not favor, and also to discriminate between content providers (i.e. websites, services, protocols), particularly competitors...

telecom companies seek to impose the tiered service model more for the purpose of profiting from their control of the pipeline rather than for any demand for their content or services...

"net neutrality" to be primarily important as a preservation of current freedoms. As co-inventor of the Internet Protocol Vint Cerf has stated, "The Internet was designed with no gatekeepers over new content or services. A lightweight but enforceable neutrality rule is needed to ensure that the Internet continues to thrive."

Law in the US(From Wikipedia)

"There is ongoing legal and political wrangling in the US regarding net neutrality. In the meantime the FCC has claimed some jurisdiction over the issue and has laid down guideline rules that it expects the telecommunications industry to follow."

Your argument is absurd, you're trying to have us believe in something that may or may not happen? Please!
    
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post #56 of 78
duplicate post, oops! see above (delete me)
    
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post #57 of 78
As long as the "pipeline profits" are used to create larger pipelines...I'm OK with letting the ISP's compete using their bandwidth. If they pocket the cash and sit on their butt's, I'll be pretty pissed.

In theory, though, higher bandwidth pipes will be the ultimate outcome of this. Think about the scenarios, if a provider is offering 10X the bandwidth to a titan like Google for the same price as their current provider, the better ISP wins. That's competition.
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post #58 of 78
Can someone explain to me if I am correct or what im missing here?

From what I understand after skimming through some of the posts here, net neutrality has more to do with ISPs giving larger used domains and the sort more bandwidth compared to the little guys...

What impact does this have on the user? Does it mean that current lower populated sites that do not pay ISPs will no longer exist or have lower bandwith? Or just the bigger sites have better bandwith then the current 'gen' of bandwidth...
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post #59 of 78
Meh, i'll believe this when I see it on CNN.
    
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post #60 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopes View Post
Can someone explain to me if I am correct or what im missing here?

From what I understand after skimming through some of the posts here, net neutrality has more to do with ISPs giving larger used domains and the sort more bandwidth compared to the little guys...

What impact does this have on the user? Does it mean that current lower populated sites that do not pay ISPs will no longer exist or have lower bandwith? Or just the bigger sites have better bandwith then the current 'gen' of bandwidth...
It's simple resource allocation. Extra unused bandwidth from one area is allocated to another bandwidth starved area. I imagine you would pay for a certain "package" and be allowed a certain amount of usable bandwidth. It would all depend on your needs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poser View Post
Those two statements are so inherently flawed...I don't even know where to begin. You know what...someone just go and grab shovel, we'll go dig ole' Adam Smith and get the perspective straight from the corpses mouth

Cost marginalization, production capitation and market share capitalization are the name of the game. Keeping the customer happy is pleasant afterthought. Corporations see the majority of consumers as bleeting sheep, uninformed and apathetic. Consumer satisfaction is a marketing phrase, not a production tool.

Government regulation is a necessary facet in maintaining a "free market" system. That is a simple fact. Free enterprise when left to run its course produces Trusts, Monopolies and preferential business practices. Think back to the early and mid 80's when Laissez Affair e was the central principle of Reagonomics. It produced the S&L scandal that was the largest contributor to the most devastating recession in the Post-New Deal epoch.

Again...I am just failing to see how Fee For Bandwidth benefits the end-user...or anyone other than the ISPs.

I don't subscribe to anarcho-capitalism weekly, if that is what you mean. Some form of regulation is necessary; I already made that clear in my past posts. However, the amount of regulation that "net neutrality" requires (and in fact asks for) is a no-no.
Ultimately, corporations and other big business do listen to the costumer. Afterall, that's where the money comes from. They are all playing the same game and are subject to the same rules of competitive free markets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Savage View Post


(sighs) I think I figured you out Melcar, either you work for an ISP or you may have invested in an ISP company. Why else would you throw around these random comments...

Why should anyone believe what you're peddling? Anybody with a little time can read up on the issue and find out for themselves that: (From Wiki
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Savage View Post


(sighs) I think I figured you out Melcar, either you work for an ISP or you may have invested in an ISP company. Why else would you throw around these random comments...

Why should anyone believe what you're peddling? Anybody with a little time can read up on the issue and find out for themselves that: (
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Savage View Post
From Wikipedia)

"advocate groups warned of the danger that broadband providers will use their power over the "last mile" to block applications they do not favor, and also to discriminate between content providers (i.e. websites, services, protocols), particularly competitors...

telecom companies seek to impose the tiered service model more for the purpose of profiting from their control of the pipeline rather than for any demand for their content or services...

"net neutrality" to be primarily important as a preservation of current freedoms. As co-inventor of the Internet Protocol Vint Cerf has stated, "The Internet was designed with no gatekeepers over new content or services. A lightweight but enforceable neutrality rule is needed to ensure that the Internet continues to thrive."

Law in the US(From Wikipe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Savage View Post


(sighs) I think I figured you out Melcar, either you work for an ISP or you may have invested in an ISP company. Why else would you throw around these random comments...

Why should anyone believe what you're peddling? Anybody with a little time can read up on the issue and find out for themselves that: (
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Savage View Post
From Wikipedia)

"advocate groups warned of the danger that broadband providers will use their power over the "last mile" to block applications they do not favor, and also to discriminate between content providers (i.e. websites, services, protocols), particularly competitors...

telecom companies seek to impose the tiered service model more for the purpose of profiting from their control of the pipeline rather than for any demand for their content or services...

"net neutrality" to be primarily important as a preservation of current freedoms. As co-inventor of the Internet Protocol Vint Cerf has stated, "The Internet was designed with no gatekeepers over new content or services. A lightweight but enforceable neutrality rule is needed to ensure that the Internet continues to thrive."

Law in the US(From Wikipedia)

"There is ongoing legal and political wrangling in the US regarding net neutrality. In the meantime the FCC has claimed some jurisdiction over the issue and has laid down guideline rules that it expects the telecommunications industry to follow."

Your argument is absurd, you're trying to have us believe in something that may or may not happen? Please!
dia)

"There is ongoing legal and political wrangling in the US regarding net neutrality. In the meantime the FCC has claimed some jurisdiction over the issue and has laid down guideline rules that it expects the telecommunications industry to follow."

Your argument is absurd, you're trying to have us believe in something that may or may not happen? Please!
pedia)

"advocate groups warned of the danger that broadband providers will use their power over the "last mile" to block applications they do not favor, and also to discriminate between content providers (i.e. websites, services, protocols), particularly competitors...

telecom companies seek to impose the tiered service model more for the purpose of profiting from their control of the pipeline rather than for any demand for their content or services...

"net neutrality" to be primarily important as a preservation of current freedoms. As co-inventor of the Internet Protocol Vint Cerf has stated, "The Internet was designed with no gatekeepers over new content or services. A lightweight but enforceable neutrality rule is needed to ensure that the Internet continues to thrive."

Law in the US(From W
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Savage View Post


(sighs) I think I figured you out Melcar, either you work for an ISP or you may have invested in an ISP company. Why else would you throw around these random comments...

Why should anyone believe what you're peddling? Anybody with a little time can read up on the issue and find out for themselves that: (
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Savage View Post
From Wikipedia)

"advocate groups warned of the danger that broadband providers will use their power over the "last mile" to block applications they do not favor, and also to discriminate between content providers (i.e. websites, services, protocols), particularly competitors...

telecom companies seek to impose the tiered service model more for the purpose of profiting from their control of the pipeline rather than for any demand for their content or services...

"net neutrality" to be primarily important as a preservation of current freedoms. As co-inventor of the Internet Protocol Vint Cerf has stated, "The Internet was designed with no gatekeepers over new content or services. A lightweight but enforceable neutrality rule is needed to ensure that the Internet continues to thrive."

Law in the US(From Wikipedia)

"There is ongoing legal and political wrangling in the US regarding net neutrality. In the meantime the FCC has claimed some jurisdiction over the issue and has laid down guideline rules that it expects the telecommunications industry to follow."

Your argument is absurd, you're trying to have us believe in something that may or may not happen? Please!
ikipedia)

"There is ongoing legal and political wrangling in the US regarding net neutrality. In the meantime the FCC has claimed some jurisdiction over the issue and has laid down guideline rules that it expects the telecommunications industry to follow."

Your argument is absurd, you're trying to have us believe in something that may or may not happen? Please!
I'm the CEO of Verizon and have mutual interests in AT&T.

Quote:
In Europe however, the European Union has a framework which permits ISPs to prioritize packets by application.[citation needed] The first major debate on Net Neutrality in the UK was held at Westminster on the 20 Mar, 2006, sponsored by AT&T. It was attended by the Government and Opposition trade secretaries, telecommunications regulators, industry figures and other experts in the field. Google, a noted supporter of Net Neutrality, declined an invitation to the debate
Quote:
Those in favor of forms of "non-neutral" tiered internet access argue that the Internet is already not a level-playing field: companies such as Google and Akamai achieve a performance advantage over smaller competitors by replicating servers and buying high-bandwidth services.
Quote:
sweeping and rigid net neutrality legislation could: hinder public safety and homeland security; complicate protecting Americans privacy; erode the quality and responsiveness of the Internet; limit consumers' competitive choices; and discourage investment in broadband deployment to all Americans.
Quote:
Carriers want content providers who support bandwidth-intensive multi-media Internet traffic to pay the carriers a premium to support further network investments.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankenPC View Post
As long as the "pipeline profits" are used to create larger pipelines...I'm OK with letting the ISP's compete using their bandwidth. If they pocket the cash and sit on their butt's, I'll be pretty pissed.

In theory, though, higher bandwidth pipes will be the ultimate outcome of this. Think about the scenarios, if a provider is offering 10X the bandwidth to a titan like Google for the same price as their current provider, the better ISP wins. That's competition.
That's what they are claiming will happen. Incentives to investment.
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