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Possible Small Victory for Net Neutrality - Page 7

post #61 of 78
Just my,

I remember in The Wealth of Nations, Adam Smith admitted that he had no answer for the problem of monopolies. These days the world corporation means "waiting to be absorbed by larger entity", or "waiting to absorb smaller entity." Eventually at the rate we are regressing, we will see a day when there is one single parent company for everything on Earth. Tech geeks think that somehow eliminating tiered bandwidth will somehow stop that.

I think however that the answer really lies in the words of Thomas Jefferson:

"Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God."
post #62 of 78
Here's an important and compelling detail from your last post, Melcar.

Quote:

"Those in favor of forms of "non-neutral" tiered internet access argue that the Internet is already not a level-playing field: companies such as Google and Akamai achieve a performance advantage over smaller competitors by replicating servers and buying high-bandwidth services."

So, what is happening here is that people who connect to "Google-paid-for-servers" will enjoy a high bandwidth for their surfing pleasure...fine, sounds reasonable to me.

The part that is concerning is that ISP's are a gateway provider to these servers, in that they can be selective and CONTROL, FILTER, REGULATE, those who gain priority access.

...sounds like the lesser of two evils to me!
    
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post #63 of 78
Quote:
I'm the CEO of Verizon and have mutual interests in AT&T.
I'm sorry i didn't read the quote above it, but it looks like a lie. As with all my posts, correct me if im wrong.
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post #64 of 78
so am i suppose to be happy or sad? lol?
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post #65 of 78
Quote:
Ultimately, corporations and other big business do listen to the costumer. Afterall, that's where the money comes from. They are all playing the same game and are subject to the same rules of competitive free markets.
.......

what can I say? I felt like typing up some long intellectual response but for now I'm fine sitting back and watching you and Noble Savage debate. You both have good points but personally Noble's arguments are better than yours. I am not sure where to side on this issue, and I hope you dont just go
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melcar
you dont understand anything about net neutrality
because I say this, but believe me corporations dont give a damn about their customer; because you know what? the internet will always be in demand. When a corporation has control of something where demand is huge then you know what? We are at their mercy because we are more willing to shell out outrageous sums of $ for worse service. And you know what else? Websites like mine and many people i know who work with open source programming and scientific research/simulation which are heavily used very low budget sites...lol we'll be wiped out by this tiered structure for the internet.
    
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post #66 of 78
Companies answer to their shareholders...not the consumers. Consumer advocacy groups are predicated on the average consume banding together to use its collective buying power. I think it would be easy to count on one hand the number of instances where consumer advocacy caused big business to capitulate. The very notion of collective purchasing power is flawed in that it asks upon the individual to sacrifice his/her immediate for the greater good.
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post #67 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sreenath View Post
.......

what can I say? I felt like typing up some long intellectual response but for now I'm fine sitting back and watching you and Noble Savage debate. You both have good points but personally Noble's arguments are better than yours. I am not sure where to side on this issue, and I hope you dont just go because I say this, but believe me corporations dont give a damn about their customer; because you know what? the internet will always be in demand. When a corporation has control of something where demand is huge then you know what? We are at their mercy because we are more willing to shell out outrageous sums of $ for worse service. And you know what else? Websites like mine and many people i know who work with open source programming and scientific research/simulation which are heavily used very low budget sites...lol we'll be wiped out by this tiered structure for the internet.
Well, from a purely political side, net neutrality would have guaranteed a block against lobbying. Political lobbying is the cause of everything which is wrong in this country. Now, the ISP's have a blank check to start the lobbying effort to give them even more power such as content descrimination. That is not good. Especially in the hands of corporate giants such as AT&T. But, then again, it's up to the consumer to NOT go with an ISP which has those business practices. Problem with that is, some consumers do not have a ISP choice. THERE IN LIES THE PROBLEM! If we all had all kinds of ISP choices, net neutrality would be a non-issue. The fear of loosing subscribership would keep them clean and competitive.

SO, if net neutrality GOES, then so should the license on the land lines going to the front door of the businesses and homes. For instance, Comcast should open up and let anyone use their cable up to the home.

It's the combination of factors that is beginning to smell bad. I recently heard that Verizon's FIOS install requires the removal of your copper lines. Therefore, rendering all your telco/internet services under their control. That is not good and counter-productive to good competitive business practices.
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post #68 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankenPC View Post
Well, from a purely political side, net neutrality would have guaranteed a block against lobbying. Political lobbying is the cause of everything which is wrong in this country. Now, the ISP's have a blank check to start the lobbying effort to give them even more power such as content descrimination. That is not good. Especially in the hands of corporate giants such as AT&T. But, then again, it's up to the consumer to NOT go with an ISP which has those business practices. Problem with that is, some consumers do not have a ISP choice. THERE IN LIES THE PROBLEM! If we all had all kinds of ISP choices, net neutrality would be a non-issue. The fear of loosing subscribership would keep them clean and competitive.

SO, if net neutrality GOES, then so should the license on the land lines going to the front door of the businesses and homes. For instance, Comcast should open up and let anyone use their cable up to the home.




It's the combination of factors that is beginning to smell bad. I recently heard that Verizon's FIOS install requires the removal of your copper lines. Therefore, rendering all your telco/internet services under their control. That is not good and counter-productive to good competitive business practices.
That's one of the biggest problems, lack of competition. It's not as easy in the U.S to just "pack up and leave" because there is a sort of semi regional ISP monopoly going on. Still, you have to think in the possibility that with greater investment-return opportunities more ISPs will pop up. Having the internet and the like more market friendly may revitalize said market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Savage View Post
Here's an important and compelling detail from your last post, Melcar.

Quote:

"Those in favor of forms of "non-neutral" tiered internet access argue that the Internet is already not a level-playing field: companies such as Google and Akamai achieve a performance advantage over smaller competitors by replicating servers and buying high-bandwidth services."

So, what is happening here is that people who connect to "Google-paid-for-servers" will enjoy a high bandwidth for their surfing pleasure...fine, sounds reasonable to me.

The part that is concerning is that ISP's are a gateway provider to these servers, in that they can be selective and CONTROL, FILTER, REGULATE, those who gain priority access.

...sounds like the lesser of two evils to me!

You're assuming the costs will be astronomical. I would like to know who gave you that idea. The ISPs will control and regulate as far as the transaction goes; doesn't the guy at the video shop regulate your access to movie rentals by requiring you to pay for it? It's the same thing; a basic transaction. And filtering, why would they filter anything; the only thing they would gain is the loss of potential profits.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post
I'm sorry i didn't read the quote above it, but it looks like a lie. As with all my posts, correct me if im wrong.

According to some, that seems to be my job. I guess now I have the money to build a massive killer PC .
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post #69 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melcar View Post
That's one of the biggest problems, lack of competition. It's not as easy in the U.S to just "pack up and leave" because there is a sort of semi regional ISP monopoly going on. Still, you have to think in the possibility that with greater investment-return opportunities more ISPs will pop up. Having the internet and the like more market friendly may revitalize said market.
hahahaha......very funny melcar. that was a better joke that your job.
    
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post #70 of 78
Well, it was nice knowing you guys. I for one am done with the internet if this happens.
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