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Flow Rate Estimator Spreadsheet V1.7 - Page 7

post #61 of 125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burn View Post
Martin, can we get a peek at the internals of the DD elbow? Is it just a large bore 90 degree bend or is it a cast, gradual "real" elbow (no right angles)?
Sure...here they are:
They are just milled out sharp 90, but because the Diameter is fitting of the threading diameter, it's much larger than that of the regular 1/2" elbow.

    
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post #62 of 125
Hey Martin, check this out! I just found it on YouTube and I wonder if it could be used to simulate flow rate, or at least where turbulence would be, in a WC system? What do you think? Maybe tomorrow I'll research it more...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtvmH...elated&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK4b6...elated&search=

Intersting stuff?!?

This is the one that really sold me to this idea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKfKi...elated&search=

It looks like a free download also
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post #63 of 125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beelzebub_75 View Post
Hey Martin, check this out! I just found it on YouTube and I wonder if it could be used to simulate flow rate, or at least where turbulence would be, in a WC system? What do you think? Maybe tomorrow I'll research it more...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtvmH...elated&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK4b6...elated&search=

Intersting stuff?!?

This is the one that really sold me to this idea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKfKi...elated&search=



It looks like a free download also
Sure is fun to watch, I can't wait until we have that sort of fluid modeling in FPS games

Not sure what it can do, but it looks cool!
    
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post #64 of 125
Well Martin I did the pressure test on the 480 GTX but as you know one of my pumps was dieing so that totally invalidates the pressure readings...Here are some pic's where I was measuring it...


Attachment 56086

Attachment 56087


All I can compare it to now is that the loop I had a 240 BIX in and a V6 and 1-18W DDC...To this loop with a 480 GTX and a V8p now...The pic's explain them-selves pretty well....Not much more of a pressure drop with the 480 vs. a 240 , so just guessing I would say the 480 is pretty unrestrictive...When I upgrade next I will try it again...

Attachment 56084

Attachment 56085
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post #65 of 125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ira-k View Post
Well Martin I did the pressure test on the 480 GTX but as you know one of my pumps was dieing so that totally invalidates the pressure readings...Here are some pic's where I was measuring it...


Attachment 56086

Attachment 56087


All I can compare it to now is that the loop I had a 240 BIX in and a V6 and 1-18W DDC...To this loop with a 480 GTX and a V8p now...The pic's explain them-selves pretty well....Not much more of a pressure drop with the 480 vs. a 240 , so just guessing I would say the 480 is pretty unrestrictive...When I upgrade next I will try it again...

Attachment 56084

Attachment 56085

Awesome, thanks!

How much flow rate was that?

At about 1 GPM the GTS is supposedly dropping about .9psi, where the BIX is dropping about .2psi, so that would mean about .6psi difference and it goes up quite a bit the more flow rate you have.

I see a little bit less like .4 -.5PSI, but not that much so the GTX must be more free flowing especially since it's a 480 vs 240. I thought someone said it has more tubes than the GTS, so maybe that's it.
    
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post #66 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210 View Post
Awesome, thanks!

How much flow rate was that?

At about 1 GPM the GTS is supposedly dropping about .9psi, where the BIX is dropping about .2psi, so that would mean about .6psi difference and it goes up quite a bit the more flow rate you have.

I see a little bit less like .4 -.5PSI, but not that much so the GTX must be more free flowing especially since it's a 480 vs 240. I thought someone said it has more tubes than the GTS, so maybe that's it.
5 PSI of water equals 11.53 ft of head, so that should be right around 1.4gpm or so..The 480 must be really free flowing which kind of surprised me....Of course with the 480 I'm using a double out V8p and a dual in res but still thats pretty good...Next time I break it all down I'll try to get some proper readings so we can tell more about it....
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post #67 of 125
Impressive testing equipment yall got going on there!
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post #68 of 125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ira-k View Post
5 PSI of water equals 11.53 ft of head, so that should be right around 1.4gpm or so..The 480 must be really free flowing which kind of surprised me....Of course with the 480 I'm using a double out V8p and a dual in res but still thats pretty good...Next time I break it all down I'll try to get some proper readings so we can tell more about it....
Actually now that I think about it..I was confused.

With just one guage in an actual loop, the lower the flow rate(higher resistance or pumping power) the higher the pressure should read in the guage. You can test this by pinching the tubing behind the guage. You should see close to 8psi when you shut off flow completely.

To relate an actual pressure drop you'd have to run the same test with your guage before, and then again right after with the same setup. Then if you measured the actual flow rate, you'd know exactly how it compared. The actual reading also gets a little messy because of static water pressure from water that may be above the guage.

It's hard to relate pressure to flow rate. If the guage was immediately after the pump and you didn't have any static pressure head, you could probably follow the pump curve and estimate a flow rate, and 4.5psi for a DDC2 with top would be more like 2.1GPM, 2.5PSI would be closer to 3 GPM... What's confusing is that when you add two pumps in series you double the pressure, and that's true because the more flow rate the higher the resistance and in the case of adding a pump in series you double the energy which relates directly to double the pressure.

Regardless, it's looking really good, looks like you have less resistance than the V6 with the 240 BIX, and considering it's a 480, that's really good
    
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post #69 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210 View Post
Actually now that I think about it..I was confused.

With just one guage in an actual loop, the lower the flow rate(higher resistance or pumping power) the higher the pressure should read in the guage. You can test this by pinching the tubing behind the guage. You should see close to 8psi when you shut off flow completely.

To relate an actual pressure drop you'd have to run the same test with your guage before, and then again right after with the same setup. Then if you measured the actual flow rate, you'd know exactly how it compared. The actual reading also gets a little messy because of static water pressure from water that may be above the guage.

It's hard to relate pressure to flow rate. If the guage was immediately after the pump and you didn't have any static pressure head, you could probably follow the pump curve and estimate a flow rate, and 4.5psi for a DDC2 with top would be more like 2.1GPM, 2.5PSI would be closer to 3 GPM...

Regardless, it's looking really good, looks like you have less resistance than the V6 with the 240 BIX, and considering it's a 480, that's really good


Yeah Petra is right on the nose with his 8psi for his top with just one in the loop, max psi is 8...You can figure the pressure drop from the gauge, if you have 5 psi that leaves 3psi, so I think that reading would be pretty accurate reguardless of whats in the loop, wouldn't it be?...I'll do a flow test next time to and see what I get with it...With the BIX and measuring the flow 5psi gave me right at 1.4 gpm...
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post #70 of 125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ira-k View Post
Yeah Petra is right on the nose with his 8psi for his top with just one in the loop, max psi is 8...You can figure the pressure drop from the gauge, if you have 5 psi that leaves 3psi, so I think that reading would be pretty accurate reguardless of whats in the loop, wouldn't it be?...I'll do a flow test next time to and see what I get with it...With the BIX and measuring the flow 5psi gave me right at 1.4 gpm...
The trick is you only get 8psi right behind the pump when flow rate is 0(Far left of the curve). And you would get maximum flow rate when the pressure is 0, that's what mucks up the reading because you're somewhere along the pump curve and not at either end. Also since the pressure drop of what's in the loop changes as the flow rate changes, it makes it an even bigger mess..

The only way it made sense to me was after I ran my own pump curve test. Basically all you do is have a pressure guage between the pump and a valve that flows freely at the outlet. Close off the valve completely and that's your max pressure 8+PSI. But as you start releasing flow rate, pressure will drop until you get to no pressure at all. No pressure at all is when you have the most flow rate(Far right of the curve). For the curve all you do is adjust the valve to vary the flow rate and record points.

For 5PSI if you follow the DDC curve, if the guage was right after the pump that should be about 1.9 GPM. But if you had pressure drops between the pump and the guage it would be less than 1.9. If you measured 1.4, then you probably had about 1 PSI of loss between the pump and the guage.

Anyhow, winter is coming so I'm going to have to get some guages as well if I plan to do any more testing. I'd really like to get some of the digital guages that have at Master-carr that read down to .01 psi, but they are something like $150ea
    
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