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iD will concentrate on making console games first and PC games second - Page 3

post #21 of 43
Meh I've played the Playstation 3 and Xbox360...games are good too I guess.

The same thing happend when PS2/Xbox came out, in that everyone pitched a ***** over console games being better than PC games (This is just my opinion, dont quote me on this)

Anyway yeah Halo IS a fun FPS...but its not Unique, it was just done well. If I had to pick Half-Life 2/Call of Duty 2/UT2004 or UT3 over Halo2 or Halo3 I'd pick the PC any day of the week.

I played Resistance: Fall of Man the other day and I mean it was fun...but nothing special?

I don't see where the dominance is going to fall into play.

The reason being is:

1.) You can't upgrade a console. With PCs you can ALWAYS upgrade the CPU/RAM/Video Card/H.D.D/ETC...

2.) With Consoles the only "Upgrade" you get is getting screwed (I.E. the Xbox360 "Elite" lolz)

3.) I hate playing with a Contoller...I'm slowed by the reaction time of an analog stick and that bothers me. If every whacktard middle schooler wants to kill some generic looking Aliens on his Xbox360 he can go ahead, I don't want him poluting my servers

4.) Multiplayer will NEVER take off in Consoles, while yes some games are console only (Def Jam, GTA*ORIGINALLY* and so on) none of them have multiplayer worth a damn...the only exception to this was Halo2 and even then I didn't enjoy it anywhere near the amount I do online

5.) MMO's...While we all have different views on the ever popular World of Warcraft and others like EVE we can all agree that MMOs will never take off on Consoles, and thats their downfall.

6.) The only "Good" Genre on Consoles are Fighting games IMO like Def Jam and what not. FPSs suck, RTSs will be impossible, and MMOs will never happen

7.) Some RPGs are/were good (KOTOR/KOTOR2) and no, I never got into Final Fantasy...mainly because theres never been a "FINAL" Fantasy

In all reality, I don't want console ports to PC...mainly because Console games lack content, plain-pure-'n'-simple
    
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post #22 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nechen View Post


1.) You can't upgrade a console. With PCs you can ALWAYS upgrade the CPU/RAM/Video Card/H.D.D/ETC...

I personally think that is a plus...That way you dont have to upgrade to play the next awesome game. Console games are built to meet the hardware capabilities. This is why consoles are huge, not everyone can afford to keep upgrading $1000+ computers every year or so. Instead they buy a $xxx console every 5 years. MUCH, MUCH, MUCH cheaper.

2.) With Consoles the only "Upgrade" you get is getting screwed (I.E. the Xbox360 "Elite" lolz)

Elite isn't an upgrade.

3.) I hate playing with a Contoller...I'm slowed by the reaction time of an analog stick and that bothers me. If every whacktard middle schooler wants to kill some generic looking Aliens on his Xbox360 he can go ahead, I don't want him poluting my servers

Some people don't like mice. Also, In my opinion, the aliens in Halo look hundreds of times more unique than half-life's zombies.(just finished HL2 today, pretty fun game)
4.) Multiplayer will NEVER take off in Consoles, while yes some games are console only (Def Jam, GTA*ORIGINALLY* and so on) none of them have multiplayer worth a damn...the only exception to this was Halo2 and even then I didn't enjoy it anywhere near the amount I do online

Halo 2 and GOW(hate that game -.-) have an INSANE number of hours logged in on xbl...

5.) MMO's...While we all have different views on the ever popular World of Warcraft and others like EVE we can all agree that MMOs will never take off on Consoles, and thats their downfall.

Did'nt people swarm to some Final Fantasy on the PS2? Not sure which, as I don't play either PS2 nor FF games.


6.) The only "Good" Genre on Consoles are Fighting games IMO like Def Jam and what not. FPSs suck, RTSs will be impossible, and MMOs will never happen

There have been dozens of MMOs on consoles. What happened to racing games? Don't most PC gamers use controllers for them too? What about action adventure? Those were basically the foundation of console games. FPSs suck? Then why are there so many of them!? Sure it's not as headshot crazy and pinpoint acurate as a mouse....but I love using controllers on FPSs in single player.(since I wont get owned by mice )
RTS impossible? Hmm I did not like CNC 3, but I'll wait until Halo Wars comes out to judge.


7.) Some RPGs are/were good (KOTOR/KOTOR2) and no, I never got into Final Fantasy...mainly because theres never been a "FINAL" Fantasy

No Morrowind/Oblivion?!
Just my thoughts.(red)
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post #23 of 43
Just reading this thread takes me back to the days of CBM Amiga, Sega Megadrive and Super Nintendo came along and all the software houses jumped ship, the Amiga WAS a very capable machine in its day, PIRACY made the machine so popular and then killed it....
The PS3 and Xbox are VERY capable machines, piracy is difficult to the average joe.... do the math!

Im not saying that the PC will be killed like the Amiga but time will tell software wise!
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post #24 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenut View Post
They want to make money just like all game developers.

They have always talked about piracy on PC as well. And piracy is not as rampant on consoles. I think that may have had some bearing on their decision.
Exactly. As much as PC gamers hate to hear it, they are outnumbered. Consoles are where the money is these days.

And piracy...well, that's obvious. Any moron can pirate on a PC. It's not so easy on a console.

Quote:
Originally Posted by immoral giant View Post
Purely to make money. It won't be so bad if they make it for the 360 then port it to PC, I assume they are fairly similar aren't they?
Similarity doesn't matter. id's new engine runs well (they claim identically) on all platforms...X360, PS3, PC, even the frickin Mac. Porting should not be a major challenge, compared to historical porting anyway. The only question on whether to port will be whether there is actually a market on that platform...and that question is probably only for the Mac.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CuriouslyHigh View Post
God, I f`ing hate consoles! I'm so sick of getting console hand-me-downs on my $1200 gaming rig.


Oh, look, if you buy an operating system more expensive by itself than an x-box, you can play Halo 2 with insignificant graphics tweaks? OH JOYMUFFINS!

I mean, what was the point?
Not much. I've been saying this for a while now: PC gaming as we know it is nearing its twilight. There is no good reason to spend thousands of dollars on a high-end PC when the same game, looking just as good, is available on a $400 console. There will always be people that do it anyway, but that's like car guys that build hot rods...some people do it, but 99.99% of the world just uses a regular old car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nechen View Post
1.) You can't upgrade a console. With PCs you can ALWAYS upgrade the CPU/RAM/Video Card/H.D.D/ETC...
Well, if certain companies would stop adding expensive hardware that we don't really need into the consoles ( ), then you can upgrade to a whole new console every couple of years for the same price as a single high-end video card upgrade. The economics don't seem that skewed to me.

Quote:
3.) I hate playing with a Contoller...I'm slowed by the reaction time of an analog stick and that bothers me. If every whacktard middle schooler wants to kill some generic looking Aliens on his Xbox360 he can go ahead, I don't want him poluting my servers
Depends on the game for me. FPS, give me a mouse. RTS, same. But platformers, drivers, sports...all work better with a joypad IMHO.

Besides, the joypad form factor is a limitation that is being overcome. We've all become somewhat stagnant in thinking that this is the only way to control console games. The Wii-mote is the first step down that road.

Quote:
4.) Multiplayer will NEVER take off in Consoles,
Somebody had better tell that to the bazillion people playing on XBox Live every day...

Quote:
5.) MMO's...While we all have different views on the ever popular World of Warcraft and others like EVE we can all agree that MMOs will never take off on Consoles, and thats their downfall.
Someone had better tell that to the substantial FF XI user base that play on their PS2...

Meh...that wasn't as dramatic as the XBox Live one. Anyway, my point is that I couldn't disagree more. It will take off, I don't know why you would be so strongly assertive that it will not. All the console is lacking is a good communication mechanism; and those are starting to roll out; e.g., the X360 controller with the mini-keyboard on it. Besides, I'm thinking that in 5 years, 10 at the most, we won't be using keyboards to talk in MMOs anyway; it will all be voice.

Quote:
6.) The only "Good" Genre on Consoles are Fighting games IMO like Def Jam and what not. FPSs suck, RTSs will be impossible, and MMOs will never happen
Bah. I listed a few genres that work better on a console above...and I didn't even remember to list fighting games. If you ask me, the list of games that work better on a PC (basically, just FPS and RTS) is outnumbered by the list that work better on a console (fighters, platformers, sports, driving).

Quote:
7.) Some RPGs are/were good (KOTOR/KOTOR2) and no, I never got into Final Fantasy...mainly because theres never been a "FINAL" Fantasy
I haven't played an RPG in recent years that would not work equally well on a PC and console. KOTOR is a perfect example: I played #1 on the XBox, #2 on the PC. The gameplay wasn't better or worse on one or the other.

And if you haven't played Final Fantasy, how can you expect me to possible respect your opinion?!? (j/k)

Quote:
In all reality, I don't want console ports to PC...mainly because Console games lack content, plain-pure-'n'-simple
Complete generalization, and completely false.
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post #25 of 43
Ok, why is everyone getting their panties in a bunch regarding id going multiplatform.

This was known from the moment they announced they're new engine (the name eludes me). What makes the engine is special is that its optimized to run on all platforms smoothly. And developers find this enticing as it reduces overall development costs. Afterall it runs of freaking Mac!!!

This doesn't mean we're all of a sudden going to get poor titles from id so calm down all of you!

@ Vulcan Dragon

I disagree, I don't think PC gaming is in its twilight. There will always be a niche of PC gaming, it will just always remain a niche. A large number of PC games like FPS' and aventure games may be easily portable to consoles, but certain games are too complex for any console controller.

Examples would include RTS' such as Supreme Commander or Company of Heroes and other strategy games. Oh and MMOs too.

Edit: Also guys id just published Quake 4, it was developed by Raven Software or something (IMO that's why the multiplayer was rather shoddy). To my knowledge the last PC game id developed was the Doom 3 expansion
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post #26 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walk_this_way View Post
I disagree, I don't think PC gaming is in its twilight. There will always be a niche of PC gaming, it will just always remain a niche. A large number of PC games like FPS' and aventure games may be easily portable to consoles, but certain games are too complex for any console controller.
Well, the reason I argue this point is because of the cost to create games these days. Given the $10 million dollar plus price tag it takes to make a top tier game these days, developers naturally have to minimize the risk. There are two ways to do that:

1. Exclusivity deals. If a console maker pays for an exclusive, there is some money-in-hand for the developer. Risk is immediately mitigated, despite having a smaller reachable audience. But exclusivity deals will only happen on a console (in the current market); there is no single entity that would pay for a "PC exclusive". One could argue that Microsoft might pay for a Windows exclusive, but that's not gonna happen; they would pay for an X360 exclusive, not a Windows exclusive. So in this scenario, since exclusive titles are released only on consoles, demand for consoles is created; more consoles get sold; and this leads into #2...

2. The target for a game release is made as big as possible, i.e. multiplatform. Common sense, of course. And it's also common sense that, given the assertion that real and potential console gamers outnumber real and potential hardcore PC gamers simply because more people can afford a $400 console than a $1500 PC; it makes sense for the developers to focus on console development more than PC development. The potential audience is simply much larger.

If you buy into any of this, then you should also recognize that it is a self-feeding cycle. If more developers release their grade-A games on consoles, then the consoles become more appealing to buyers; so more consoles are sold, which makes the platform more appealing for developers; rinse and repeat.

I could also factor into the equation the fact that the uber-PCs that we all use to run our uber-games serve no purpose other than feeding gaming habits. The non-gaming functions that most people need simply do not need quad-core 4 GHz CPUs with graphics cards that can also perform physics calculations sophisticated enough to run the Apollo space program. Average people are unlikely to find the price point of "gaming PCs" justifiable...shrinking the audience for PC game developers even further.

Now I'm not predicting that PC gaming is dead in 2008, don't get me wrong. I'm thinking about ten years from now. I also think that in ten years, the desktop PC as we know it will be somewhat of a relic anyway...but that's another post altogether.
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post #27 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nechen View Post
In all reality, I don't want console ports to PC...mainly because Console games lack content, plain-pure-'n'-simple
That is one of my biggest complaints with console games.

The only reason why I like console games is because they bring a smile to my girlfriends face.

But me - I like games that are hard, complex and more serious. Console games lack these traits.
    
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post #28 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choggs396 View Post
That is one of my biggest complaints with console games.

The only reason why I like console games is because they bring a smile to my girlfriends face.

But me - I like games that are hard, complex and more serious. Console games lack these traits.
Metal Gear Solid.
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post #29 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by CuriouslyHigh View Post
Metal Gear Solid.
That's an more of an exception than a rule, so to speak. I didn't mean all console games lack those traits, I just meant in more of an overall sense.
    
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post #30 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanDragon View Post
Well, the reason I argue this point is because of the cost to create games these days. Given the $10 million dollar plus price tag it takes to make a top tier game these days, developers naturally have to minimize the risk. There are two ways to do that:

1. Exclusivity deals. If a console maker pays for an exclusive, there is some money-in-hand for the developer. Risk is immediately mitigated, despite having a smaller reachable audience. But exclusivity deals will only happen on a console (in the current market); there is no single entity that would pay for a "PC exclusive". One could argue that Microsoft might pay for a Windows exclusive, but that's not gonna happen; they would pay for an X360 exclusive, not a Windows exclusive. So in this scenario, since exclusive titles are released only on consoles, demand for consoles is created; more consoles get sold; and this leads into #2...

2. The target for a game release is made as big as possible, i.e. multiplatform. Common sense, of course. And it's also common sense that, given the assertion that real and potential console gamers outnumber real and potential hardcore PC gamers simply because more people can afford a $400 console than a $1500 PC; it makes sense for the developers to focus on console development more than PC development. The potential audience is simply much larger.

If you buy into any of this, then you should also recognize that it is a self-feeding cycle. If more developers release their grade-A games on consoles, then the consoles become more appealing to buyers; so more consoles are sold, which makes the platform more appealing for developers; rinse and repeat.

I could also factor into the equation the fact that the uber-PCs that we all use to run our uber-games serve no purpose other than feeding gaming habits. The non-gaming functions that most people need simply do not need quad-core 4 GHz CPUs with graphics cards that can also perform physics calculations sophisticated enough to run the Apollo space program. Average people are unlikely to find the price point of "gaming PCs" justifiable...shrinking the audience for PC game developers even further.

Now I'm not predicting that PC gaming is dead in 2008, don't get me wrong. I'm thinking about ten years from now. I also think that in ten years, the desktop PC as we know it will be somewhat of a relic anyway...but that's another post altogether.

#1 - The Microsoft paying for Windows exclusives is a bit more debatable than that I believe. Since MS is trying to sell Vista as a gaming platform as well, it's trying to make games exclusive to both the 360 and Windows (Bioshock). They will try keeping PC gaming open as long as possible.
Another point, Apple is beginning to take an interest (although mild at this point) in the gaming market, I see them making a push, in the future, for more OpenGL games that can run on Windows and Mac.

#2 - The uber gamers with those decked out Sli rigs are the minority, which is precisely why most developers spend so much time optimizing because the greatest amount of backlash is going to come from lower-end casual gaming community(if the game is badly optimized), the people who own computers and thought they'd just try out a game.

It might be argued that most common place PCs aren't powerful enough. But to the contrary, most are. I used to own a 7300LE before this and games like GRAW and Company of Heroes(both quite demanding in their own right) were more than playable. I know a lot of Dell PCs come with 7300LEs therefore giving a lot of people gaming capabilties out of the box. The processors and amount of RAM that accompany these machines are usually more than sufficient.

Also with Vista Home Premium slightly higher than usual graphic requirements, OEMs have been forced to put better graphics cards into their PCs. Intel is also releasing that their integrated solutions aren't sufficient either.

Computers are seen as a necessity whilst consoles a luxury. Therefore, a basic computer base will constantly increasing.


It really is quite debatable, 10 years from now I know, a lot of things will be drastically different.

Ahh the integration that will be 2017......... (agreed another post altogether)
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