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Will smaller diameter tubing really have much impact?

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
Hi,

I recently came into possession of 2, 1000 Litre per hour (264.17 US gallons per hour / 4.4 US gallons per minute) XSPC DC1000 pumps. As they are so big and I want to run them both together, I am in the process of modding a separate housing for them, outside of my PC case, but, before I order the extra tubing I'll need, I wanted to ask if the diameter really makes all that much difference?

The problem is cost... If I want to integrate these pumps into my existing 6mm ID tubing system, I just need some extra 6mm ID tubing and four connectors for the pumps which will cost about £20.00 (around $40 US)... If I upgrade all of my connectors to make them the same as the pumps currently have (10mm ID), all of my tubing and a couple of connectors to fit the Thermaltake BWSE reservoir I'm still using (which will need 6mm ID to 10mm ID connectors as that’s the only way it'll work) it will cost about £40.00 (around $80 US)! 100% more, just to go 40% wider and even then there'll still be one part of the system that narrows to 6mm on the reservoir...

What I'm asking is, is it really worth the extra cost, considering I'm going from a single 700 litre per hour (185 US gallons per hour, 3 US gallons per minute) pump, to 2x 1000 litre per hour pumps with the above mentioned spec..? Surely I'll notice a good difference anyway with the upgrade and the two (rather than one) pumps will off set the issue with regards to the smaller diameter tubing and tube fittings..?

Your thoughts on the issue would be appreciated .

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post #2 of 20
You'll want the biggest diameter possible...I mean...lookit all that pressure and flow...plus you'll have to figure out how far apart you want the pumps in the loop...(pump>cpu>gpu1>pump2>gpu>chipset>radiator>r es or something like that...) ya know?

Size DOES matter...lol
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post #3 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideburns View Post
You'll want the biggest diameter possible...I mean...lookit all that pressure and flow...plus you'll have to figure out how far apart you want the pumps in the loop...(pump>cpu>gpu1>pump2>gpu>chipset>radiator>r es or something like that...) ya know?

Size DOES matter...lol
LOL. I guess it does .

Still, I'm only cooling the CPU, nothing else. I currently have RES > CPU > RAD > PUMP and I was just going to go RES > CPU > RAD > PUMP > PUMP as that is the easiest way to set it up in my config...

I appreciate that the tubing diameter makes a difference and that bigger is better to an extent, but I was just wondering if it was possible to calculate roughly the extent to which I would, with my proposed loop, gain in cooling performance, by having the wider tubing..? If it's only 1°C to 3°C with the wider tubing, I think I'll leave it for a future upgrade, but if it's going to be 4°C or more, I might well consider forking over the extra cash (and doing the extra work) now, rather than later...

So, how much extra cooling effect (roughly) will the larger tubing have and what, specific effect does tubing size have? What effect will having two pumps have in a loop (this loop) vs just the one and will those effects ameliorate the negative effects of smaller diameter tubing in any way?

Thanks!

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post #4 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highly-Annoyed View Post
LOL. I guess it does .

Still, I'm only cooling the CPU, nothing else. I currently have RES > CPU > RAD > PUMP and I was just going to go RES > CPU > RAD > PUMP > PUMP as that is the easiest way to set it up in my config...

I appreciate that the tubing diameter makes a difference and that bigger is better to an extent, but I was just wondering if it was possible to calculate roughly the extent to which I would, with my proposed loop, gain in cooling performance, by having the wider tubing..? If it's only 1°C to 3°C with the wider tubing, I think I'll leave it for a future upgrade, but if it's going to be 4°C or more, I might well consider forking over the extra cash (and doing the extra work) now, rather than later...

So, how much extra cooling effect (roughly) will the larger tubing have and what, specific effect does tubing size have? What effect will having two pumps have in a loop (this loop) vs just the one and will those effects ameliorate the negative effects of smaller diameter tubing in any way?

Thanks!

Highly-Annoyed
Cooling effect is nearly impossible to calculate. Flow rate impact is possible though. Check Martinm210 various posts...

http://www.overclock.net/water-cooli...et-v1-0-a.html
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post #5 of 20
Google Poiseuille' Law which may be expressed as

Flow= Pressure/Resistance
or
Resistance=Pressure/Flow
or
Pressure= Flow x Resistance

If Resistance (in your case conduit diameter) was changed you could approximate the percentage of change in degrees cooling that change would make if the others were held constant.
Try this: Get a length of 6mm tube and a stopwatch. hook it to your pump and run water through it for 60 sec into a bucket. Measure what you have.
do the same with the 10mm tube. If you really want to get crazy with this run the same test with a 10mm tube into a 10mm-to-6mm reducer to see what the increased resistance does to your flow.
Very unscientifically you could then arrive at a degree-cooled/Liters-min Flow constant and multiply that by the increase in flow the larger tubing would give. Maybe
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post #6 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
Cooling effect is nearly impossible to calculate. Flow rate impact is possible though. Check Martinm210 various posts...

http://www.overclock.net/water-cooli...et-v1-0-a.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by keef007 View Post
Google Poiseuille' Law which may be expressed as

Flow= Pressure/Resistance
or
Resistance=Pressure/Flow
or
Pressure= Flow x Resistance

If Resistance (in your case conduit diameter) was changed you could approximate the percentage of change in degrees cooling that change would make if the others were held constant.
Try this: Get a length of 6mm tube and a stopwatch. hook it to your pump and run water through it for 60 sec into a bucket. Measure what you have.
do the same with the 10mm tube. If you really want to get crazy with this run the same test with a 10mm tube into a 10mm-to-6mm reducer to see what the increased resistance does to your flow.
Very unscientifically you could then arrive at a degree-cooled/Liters-min Flow constant and multiply that by the increase in flow the larger tubing would give. Maybe
Thanks guys. I will look into this!!

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post #7 of 20
Cathar just recently did some flow rate comparisons with smaller ID tubing and it didn't have as much impact as I would of thought...He uses compression fittings on the smaller ID tube and they are kind of expensive...Do the two pumps have much head? And you need to see what kind of heat dump they will have in your loop also...


...The impact of tubing sizes
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post #8 of 20
Warning, decreasing size in dia.. may be a bad idea. We just repaced the pump in our swap cooler, and decreased the tube dia.. The pumps we upgraded to are pretty powerful and have no adjustment just one speed. Well anyway, turns out the smaller dia.. tube decided to blow up like a baloon that a clown uses to make animnals. If you go smaller, make sure it will handle the pressure, or turn the pressure down if you can.
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post #9 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideburns View Post
You'll want the biggest diameter possible...I mean...lookit all that pressure and flow...plus you'll have to figure out how far apart you want the pumps in the loop...(pump>cpu>gpu1>pump2>gpu>chipset>radiator>r es or something like that...) ya know?

Size DOES matter...lol
WRONG! the right answer is choose based on your current setup~

You should choose tubing size according to your pump limit and waterblock. If you have a pump that is capable (means the increasing resistance won't impact on the rated flow rate much) running high pressure application and a high resistance waterblock. Then the smaller tubing will perform better.

Smaller tubing = water travel @ higher speed, less water in the loop and better contact with high resistance water block. The bottom line is that you wan't to get warm water to your radiator as soon as possbile. If you can get the water pass through radiator 100 times / min, then your waterblock is getting cooled 100 times / min.

The only times you should choose a larger diameter tubing is when you have a pump where higher pressure will decrease flow rate dramasticly. Or a waterblock that is rated for low resistance.
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post #10 of 20
Also, higher flow rate + pressure do not always benefit cooling. If you are running 2000lph through 6mm tubing, the tremendous amount of pressure could short pump's life or even result in a leak.

Assuming your pump and tube are fine with the increased pressure 2000lph flow rate, is your waterblock fit for this? It takes time for the heat to transfer from the waterblock copper to water. This is also true when it comes to transfer the heat from water to radiators. If water runs faster beyond the limit of heat transfter (which I doubt it ^^), you may even see a decrease in performance. Most likely, the performance increment is minimum and there may be none. In reality, you don't need over 1200lph for most waterblocks on the market.

Last thing, heat that were generated by pumps are transfered to the water. Two larger pump mean that you might double or triple the heat been added to the loop. Therefore, lower your radiator performance.

The best way to utilize two pumps are build two water loops. Each pump pumps to a seperate radiator. Use seperate loop to cool different waterblock.
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