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EU slaps Intel with formal antitrust charges - Page 6

post #51 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuanming View Post
Sillly European Union, they need to take a chill pill or something cuz this is how the whole business thing works... Also, Intel is have many price cut already so really what's the problem here?! AMD fanboy/arse kisser?!
That was intelligent!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jph1589 View Post
And I don't really care what the outcome is, because at the end of the day Intel will still be here and AMD won't. No matter how much the EU tries to manipulate the market, it just wont matter.
Its not the EU that was manipulating the market, Intel was!
They threatened product development to the likes of Dell, Sony and Toshiba if they bought AMD processors.
NO thats NOT fanboy talk, its simply the case!

My perspective on the overall...
Back in the day, Intels prices were absurdly high. Most of you would understand the days of sub 100MHz CPUs prices. It was almost price prohibitive to build your own PC because of the high Intel CPU prices.
Had it be that Intel was with out any serious competition which AMD brought some time back, we ALL would be paying dearly!
Had it be that AMD hadn't brought the true 32/64 bit concept which launched there temporary supremacy where would product development be at either company!

The reality is AMD products are behind, much like they had been through out most of it's history. Behind yes, but not by the leaps and bounds our passion for OC exhibits but more so only slightly overall in the real "Retail" world where the vast market is. Were just a very small blip and not relevant to the "Retail" world!

Intel worked the black list method and got caught, now there working the financial choke hold method. The first was illegal, the second is not! What it has brought us is competition, advancement in designs and lower prices, thats reality!!!

Call me a fan boy if you like, chances are your one too, most, but not all are!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwidion View Post
the charge was dropped...
    
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post #52 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Modki View Post
Lol 600 million is nothing. To you it seems like a lot maybe. AMD won't die out in your lifetime.
Why should we listen to your magnanimous claims? You are known to have significant bias towards AMD ("fanboyism" i suppose). This statement angers me so much because you have no proof, let alone even any trace of reasoning behind those claims. AMD may not die (as in right away or for a long while) but definitely within a lifetime...M$ may not even be around (as they are now), or Intel for that matter, they may be different companies then.

As for now, I am worried for AMD. I have no bias to either side, I buy best bang for buck. This is the first Intel system I owned so dont go <ZOMG CONROE OWNING FANBOII> on me because I love K8 and skt939.

Here is my financial analysis backed up with cold hard facts, inferences from the data, and logical inferences with a good amount of reasoning that takes absolutely NO bias into account.

Here is the chart for AMD's stock:

here is repeated info:
Quote:
Originally Posted by from that screenie
Open: 14.76 Mkt Cap: 7.83B P/E: N/A
High: 14.76 52Wk High: 27.90 F P/E: -5.73
-0.57 (-3.87%) Low: 13.88 52Wk Low: 12.60 Beta: 3.13
Delayed: 11:13AM ET Vol: 20.22M Avg Vol: 27.81M EPS: -3.01
Look at their market cap and rethink about the 600mil
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSN MONEY
Sales*5.71 Bil
Income*-1.65 Bil
Sales Growth*-3.40%
Income Growth*-775.30%
Net Profit Margin-28.35%
Debt/Equity Ratio1.24
* last 12 months
More financial information
Funds that own AMD
Fund Name% Own
Growth Fund of America, Inc.5.5
Oppenheimer Global Opportunities Fund3.8
New Perspective Fund, Inc.2.4
http://moneycentral.msn.com/detail/s...ote?Symbol=AMD
If barcelona does well, Intel COULD make C2D's cheaper than brisbanes and Penryn as cheap as current C2D's. AMD would not possibly be able to compete with that.

Big could

on the other hand they can rebound and HAVE DONE SO many times; idk though. looks bleak (see data above)

I mean, only three crappy funds own AMD. no one wants to invest in it. Except Modki of course.

On the other hand, short-selling AMD is becoming an easy way to make a quick buck.
    
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post #53 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sreenath View Post
Why should we listen to your magnanimous claims? You are known to have significant bias towards AMD ("fanboyism" i suppose).
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Damn that made me LOL. Look I dunno where you ever got that Idea. It's dead wrong. I love AMD. You can't beat their performance/price, especially the Brisbane which I'm looking forward to owning in a few months when I build my mobile matx X2 3600/8600GT machine.

My old computer is a Barton Socket A (462) and I still use it to this day.

I don't have a bias towards any company. I just happen to go into flame mode when someone else happens to have a bias towards a product or company or if they keep repeating the same wrong information. Like the HD 2000's sure I stand up for them because they're great but that doesn't mean I hate Nvidia. People just think that's what it means... although Nvidia does need to get crackin on better Vista drivers..

Also that chart is not a good one, it's only for a few months, stretch it out a bit more and look at all of it. Here this one will give you a better understanding of what's going on.
Attachment 52929
As you can see they've been worse off than they are now. I have every confidence that AMD will not die in my lifetime.
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post #54 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Duke View Post
That was intelligent!
Feel superior now? Good for your ego Hopefully you don't ridicule me in the same way for my differing opinion; or give me an infraction because you can. Are you trying to scare people from disagreeing with you on this forum. You are far more mature than that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Duke View Post
Its not the EU that was manipulating the market, Intel was!
All companies try to manipulate the market into buying their products. All advertisements and commercials have this purpose. All marketing campaigns have this purpose. Marketing is inherently, in and of itself, a form of propaganda (an attempt with the purpose of MANIPULATING a target group of people). I do not understand what you are trying to say. Power is always abused. It is sad yes, and perhaps extremely unfair and unjust. But why punish one company for the sins of hundreds, if not thousands of other companies who all do the same thing with the same goal; that just get off the hook because their competitor doesn't whine about them as much (and yes its a fact AMD spurned the EU).
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Duke View Post
They threatened product development to the likes of Dell, Sony and Toshiba if they bought AMD processors.
NO thats NOT fanboy talk, its simply the case!
You may be right, but what EXACTLY do you mean by the bolded. Everyone says/repeats this same exact statement, it could mean almost anything if you think about it/interpret it in different ways, from different points of view. After you tell me what you mean, please show me some more proof (so I can be sure). Thanks. I do, in ALL SERIOUSNESS, believe what you say is true, just want to make sure I know what you mean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Duke View Post
My perspective on the overall...
Back in the day, Intels prices were absurdly high. Most of you would understand the days of sub 100MHz CPUs prices. It was almost price prohibitive to build your own PC because of the high Intel CPU prices.
Had it be that Intel was with out any serious competition which AMD brought some time back, we ALL would be paying dearly!
Had it be that AMD hadn't brought the true 32/64 bit concept which launched there temporary supremacy where would product development be at either company!
we know this, doesn't justify AMD/EU position that Intel shouldn't compete and convince companies to use their products (AGAIN, you may be right if you answer my above question telling me they in actuality did something ILLEGAL and not just FROWNED UPON (big difference), and secondly what that something was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Duke View Post
The reality is AMD products are behind, much like they had been through out most of it's history. Behind yes, but not by the leaps and bounds our passion for OC exhibits but more so only slightly overall in the real "Retail" world where the vast market is. Were just a very small blip and not relevant to the "Retail" world!
QFT!. again not really on-topic but a very good insight nevertheless
People don't realize that almost NOBODY overclocks. I would say less than 1% of all computer users overclock. Thus, AMD's prices look great! A 6000+ which is CLOSE to an E6600 at stock (not quite but really close) is $50 cheaper if i am not mistaken, right? at least at newegg it is (170 vs 220). Of course, when it comes to quads, Intels totally own anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Duke View Post
Intel worked the black list method and got caught
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Duke View Post
, now there working the financial choke hold method.
which every company with the money would do, doesn't make them evil (or at least any different than any other company)
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Duke View Post
The first was illegal, the second is not! What it has brought us is competition, advancement in designs and lower prices, thats reality!!!
"it" as in the second part??
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Duke View Post
Call me a fan boy if you like, chances are your one too, most, but not all are!

I am not a fanboy. I love AMD and Intel. I USED to be an AMD fanboy back in the K8 days, zomg it was amazing how much AMD pwned Intel but Intel still made lots of money because of OEM. Also proves your good point about 'retail' market vs us crazy people. Both companies used to be totally different approaches but after Netburst Intel learned to be AMD and AMD learned to be Intel. I cannot think of a more succinct or accurate way to describe new gen AM2 vs C2D 775. Intels innovation stunns and shocks me, although its pleases me as well

I know AMD is cooking somethin up, but maybe its waiting a bit too long imho.
    
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post #55 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Znth View Post
Even if the EU charged intel 50% of their earnings they couldn't leave, europe is a huge market, quite a bit larger than USA by itself, and if they left it would be financial suicide.

Think of how share prices would drop once the projected profits suddenly half themselves.
The EU is no where near as large as the US market. The growth of the US economy last fiscal year was larger than the entire Asian economy.

As for this topic, I am going to quote what I had to say @ DailyTech:

The EU is about as far left on the political scale as modern politics gets. Why do you think the economies are doing horrible over there? Their taxes are high and their government oversight is even higher.

"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it."

"Governments tend not to solve problems, only to rearrange them."

Both by Ronald Reagan

The EU has no right to try and balance business.
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post #56 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Modki View Post
HAHAHAHA-45lines of "HAHAHA"-HAHAHAHAHA
And we are supposed to listen to someone who wastes/spams forum space with this useless, almost meaningless crap which could be shortened to one or two lines??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Modki View Post
Damn that made me LOL. Look I dunno where you ever got that Idea. It's dead wrong.
From all your outlandish predictions about AMD and attachment to AMD; i think it is a quite reasonable judgment to make.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Modki View Post
I love AMD. You can't beat their performance/price, especially the Brisbane which I'm looking forward to owning in a few months when I build my mobile matx X2 3600/8600GT machine.
E4300 beats 3600+ in price/performance; as does the E2160. The E6400 if overclocked to my speed also beats it in ratio, although price itself is higher. BUT I DO ADMIT that in the higher price range, the 6000+ and 5200+ are REAL BARGAINS for non overclockers as the 6000+ matches an E6600 at stock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Modki View Post
My old computer is a Barton Socket A (462) and I still use it to this day.
and this means?
what if i told you my dad's work computer? Its an AMD K-6 with 512 MB of PC133 RAM.....he uses it to this day. I can post pics tonight if you want. So because you still use a crappy computer that makes it good?! Use common sense before blurting out these things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Modki View Post
I don't have a bias towards any company. I just happen to go into flame mode when someone else happens to have a bias towards a product or company or if they keep repeating the same wrong information. Like the HD 2000's sure I stand up for them because they're great but that doesn't mean I hate Nvidia. People just think that's what it means... although Nvidia does need to get crackin on better Vista drivers..
I hope this is true. But in your passion to spread the little known truth to those who bash AMD and ATI relentlessly, you will unknowingly develop a strong bias towards AMD (and perhaps ATI although they are teh same now i suppose)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Modki View Post
Also that chart is not a good one, it's only for a few months,
LOL?! Thats a ONE YEAR CHART. makes me think you didnt even bother to read it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Modki View Post
stretch it out a bit more and look at all of it. Here this one will give you a better understanding of what's going on.
Attachment 52929
As you can see they've been worse off than they are now. I have every confidence that AMD will not die in my lifetime.
How long is a lifetime? How long is that chart?? I thought so. And by the way, your definition of 'worse off' is completely misguided and inaccurate. The stock price ALONE does not dictate how the company is doing. When teh company is new and young and developing and setting it all up initial investment yields massive profit loss...but once a company is up and running and successful as AMD is, then after that when they start a downward spiral, its a SIGNIFICANTLY worse situation than fragile infancy.

AGAIN, I do love AMD and DO NOT IN ANYWAY SHAPE OR FORM WANT AMD TO DIE! I LOVE BOTH AMD AND INTEL. HOWEVER JUST BECAUSE I LOVE THEM DOESN'T CHANGE THE FACT THAT AMD *COULD* *COULD* DIE.
    
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post #57 of 65
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the US is smaller than the European Union by more than a trillion dollars in terms of GDP, please read up before making such comments.

And it's funny that the US seem to think that everything they do is the best way even though they are far from an example of a free market economy, so what if europe disagrees? It's not about who has the right to control trade but rather the fact that they have the power to do so.

Not saying that there isn't a "best" way, but it's just not relevant here. They have the power to do whatever they want to Intel in their countries and there's nothing intel can do about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldovi View Post
The EU is no where near as large as the US market. The growth of the US economy last fiscal year was larger than the entire Asian economy.

As for this topic, I am going to quote what I had to say @ DailyTech:

The EU is about as far left on the political scale as modern politics gets. Why do you think the economies are doing horrible over there? Their taxes are high and their government oversight is even higher.

"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it."

"Governments tend not to solve problems, only to rearrange them."

Both by Ronald Reagan

The EU has no right to try and balance business.
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post #58 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Znth View Post
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the US is smaller than the European Union by more than a trillion dollars in terms of GDP, please read up before making such comments.

And it's funny that the US seem to think that everything they do is the best way even though they are far from an example of a free market economy, so what if europe disagrees? It's not about who has the right to control trade but rather the fact that they have the power to do so.

Not saying that there isn't a "best" way, but it's just not relevant here. They have the power to do whatever they want to Intel in their countries and there's nothing intel can do about it.
Based off of 2006 numbers:

US GDP: 13,130,000 $m
EU GDP: 13,060,000 $m

So I suggest that you do your research.

The EU economy is definitely not going up. With all the taxes and control the EU places over business's they are struggling to turn a profit. Hell, in France it is illegal to fire someone.
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post #59 of 65
Ahem, that's why we don't use wiki articles to find our facts.

Try a reputable source: http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/...ata/index.aspx

Also you should probably substantiate the claim that the US economy is growing faster than Europe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldovi View Post
Based off of 2006 numbers:

US GDP: 13,130,000 $m
EU GDP: 13,060,000 $m

So I suggest that you do your research.

The EU economy is definitely not going up. With all the taxes and control the EU places over business's they are struggling to turn a profit. Hell, in France it is illegal to fire someone.
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DDTR EX
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post #60 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sreenath View Post
All of that stuff you just said.
I'm not a fanboy of AMD or Intel. That's all I'm saying. This supposed bias towards one company or another you have given me has irked me somewhat. I don't know why you picked me to slander but I forgive you for it. I would like to at this time apologize to you personally for.. well whatever it was that gave offense, I'm sure you outburst was justified in some way.
Mira
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Mira
(17 items)
 
R a z a N e u n
(15 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 2400S ASRock Z77 Extreme 4 AMD Radeon R9 390 Crucial Ballistix Tracer 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Samsung SSD 850 Pro 256GB Western Digital WD50000LPLX LG BR/DVD/CD Burner Air Nation 
OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
Windows 10 Home RCA 32" 1080p RCA 32" 1080p LG 32" 1080p 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Cooler Master Devastator II Ultra 1000w PC Voodoo Rage Cooler Master Devastator II 
Mouse Pad
Custom 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core 2 Quad Q8400 EP45-UD3L ATI Radeon HD 6950 Crucial Ballistix Tracer 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
1TB Western Digital LiteON DVD+-RW ArcticCooling CPU | 4x 80mm Case Fans Windows 7 Ultimate (64bit) 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Sony 46" + LG 32" Logitech G15 Silverstone ST60F 600W VoodooPC Rage D:100 
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Logitech VX Revolution Vera Wang AltecLansing 5.1 300W Surround 
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