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A Thought on the Charges Against Intel by the EU Commision - Page 6

post #51 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanDragon View Post
You're comparing business scenarios that are not directly comparable. In the exclusive game scenario, the console maker isn't selling anything...they are buying smoething. They are attempting to entice the game developer to create an exclusive product for their console; but all console manufacturers are able to openly bid for that exclusive. And it also has to be considered that, although we often have spirited debates about which console is "winning" in this or that generation, historically all of the modern console companies have actually done pretty well for themselves...i.e., no one console has 90% or the market, or whatever.

But the same is not true in the chip scenario. Intel is selling their chips to OEMs, and they are offering deeper discounts to companies that legally agree to not buy from AMD. And again, it doesn't help that Intel has an overwhelming majority over AMD. The scenario simply does not pass the smell test for anticompetitive practices.

If you really want to compare this to console exclusives, the scenario would have to be something more like Sony tells Rockstar that unless GTA4 is a PS3 exclusive, they will not allow Rockstar to publish any game on the PS3.

I don't think I can explain this any better. If you still don't get it, I almost think you don't want to get it because you don't like it very much. But laissez faire economy was tried 150 odd years ago, and it didn't work; so what we have is actually good, whether or not you or anyone else understands or likes it.
You make some very good points, also nice analogy. For the most part I understand and agree with what you are saying. However this has nothing to do with laissez faire, I doubt anyone would argue that regardless of Intels anticompetitive bussiness practices the government should not interfere. More appropriately, I believe people put the burden of proof on the accuser, in this case amd/EU. It would be nice to see some clear cut proof and better yet a clear interpretation of the specific law/precedent being cited.

There are always two sides to any given story, the fact that Intel has not settled this out of court tells me that either too much is at stake for them and/or they feel they have a strong case. I feel that in the US this case would have little merit, AMD had constantly increased their market share and profitability during the time frame of the alleged anticompetitive practices. Does anyone recall what the athlon 64 x2 cost back back in 2005? The x2 3800 cost upwards of $350(that price gouge still irks me) ...

If Intel forced large OEMs to agree to not use AMD cpus then yes that would be anticompetitive... However OEMs like Dell, Hp, Compaq ect are all about margins, expensive CPUs(like x2s back in 05) do not help those margins. Nor would AMDs lack of manufacturing capacity which recently has been outsourced to Chartered and TSMC en mass. All I'm saying is I doubt it took much (if any) arm twisting to get the OEMs exclusivity.
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post #52 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterKromm View Post
More appropriately, I believe people put the burden of proof on the accuser, in this case amd/EU.
Oh, it absolutely is, and antitrust cases are very difficult to prove. Just take a look at Microsoft's case back in the 90s. They were so anticompetitive it was ridiculous, yet they wound up with a slap on the wrist precisely because proving this sort of thing is really very hard to do.

Quote:
It would be nice to see some clear cut proof and better yet a clear interpretation of the specific law/precedent being cited.
Yep, we'll see it eventually, once it's disclosed in the courts. I am very interested to see what AMD has on Intel.

Quote:
If Intel forced large OEMs to agree to not use AMD cpus then yes that would be anticompetitive... However OEMs like Dell, Hp, Compaq ect are all about margins, expensive CPUs(like x2s back in 05) do not help those margins. Nor would AMDs lack of manufacturing capacity which recently has been outsourced to Chartered and TSMC en mass. All I'm saying is I doubt it took much (if any) arm twisting to get the OEMs exclusivity.
Probably no arm twisting at all. But I suspect it's not the burden of the customer to ensure that the supplier is operating in a competitive manner. I could be wrong on that point though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigvaL View Post
PS: VulcanDragon... isn't it NF7-S V2?

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Crap...that typo has been out there for a couple of years!!!
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