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post #131 of 216
So, where was the name IBM first used?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...es_Corporation

That makes it 'Canadian first' to me. I guess if you work in Canada, you get a slightly different version of IBM. You probably also think Hockey is an American game...

FlashG
ps - as for the other comments:

1) when I did the course I was told this was going to be one of the last years of internal support. Perhaps it was one of the last years that Candian IBM supported it. Look at the timelines of the development of APL2. It fits right in with me being told support was ending and

2) I am glad you know the answer to something you haven't even tried. I may be wrong and you may end up being right... but except for your antagonism, I am having a lot of fun finding out what happens by actually giving an aquarium chiller a go....
Edited by FlashG - 12/10/09 at 1:13am
    
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post #132 of 216
If this is real, some of us are eagerly awaiting the results
post #133 of 216
I just installed Win 7 this morning. Need to install my BigNG software so I can start monitoring temps in different parts of the loop. Maybe later today.

No testing under load with fans reduced etc, but it can certainly scrub 5 to 7C off the loop temp, measured with the Aq Chiller temp monitor, with no load, fluid flow and zero fans.

Overall, I never intended to run the loop 'sub-zero', but if I can scrub 5C off the coolant just before it goes back to the CPU, it will be worth it

BTW, I think the Xeon 3580 will run cool under load. My RealTemp indicates 33C on all cores right now I know there are problems with RealtTemp accuracy etc (no need to post Nid...), so I will stick some BigNG probes in the right places to confirm...

Back to work....

FlashG
    
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post #134 of 216
^^^
Which cooler are you using?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashG View Post
So, where was the name IBM first used?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...es_Corporation

That makes it 'Canadian first' to me. I guess if you work in Canada, you get a slightly different version of IBM. You probably also think Hockey is an American game...

FlashG
ps - as for the other comments:

1) when I did the course I was told this was going to be one of the last years of internal support. Perhaps it was one of the last years that Candian IBM supported it. Look at the timelines of the development of APL2. It fits right in with me being told support was ending and

2) I am glad you know the answer to something you haven't even tried. I may be wrong and you may end up being right... but except for your antagonism, I am having a lot of fun finding out what happens by actually giving an aquarium chiller a go....
"The company which became IBM was founded in 1896 as the Tabulating Machine Company[7] by Herman Hollerith, in Broome County, New York (Endicott, New York or Binghamton, New York), where it still maintains very limited operations. It was incorporated as Computing Tabulating Recording Corporation on June 16, 1911, and was listed on the New York Stock Exchange in 1916 by George Winthrop Fairchild. CTR's Canadian and later South American subsidiary was named International Business Machines in 1917, and the whole company took this name in 1924 when Thomas J. Watson took control of it."

I don't see how that was so hard to figure out. Subsidiary does not make it a company. That make's it a business owned by a corporation. This is basic econ here.

Well if Hockey isn't truly American, then where in the hell is Canada actually located? Next you'll tell me it's a white man's invention too.

APL2 was being implement as APL was on it's way out. They both were eventually outdated as micro-computing, and UNIX both ate up the IBM mainframe market. They did exist together though, why IBM would tell you otherwise make's no sense to me.

What make's you think I haven't tried an aquarium chiller? I've even tried Mineral Oil, which is a great way to go as well if you are feeling froggy enough to deal with the issue's involved, but that's another thread.
Edited by NidStyles - 12/11/09 at 4:02pm
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post #135 of 216
It always amazes me how people come on here and without really checking say they have the most amazing way to cool such and such...
For every idea anyone can come up with there IS at least one other person who has already done it...

....and that includes aquarium chillers...it's nothing new....

Try it by all means and put your results here (we are interested.) BUT don't kid yourself your a pioneer....
Edited by zipdogso - 12/11/09 at 4:49pm
post #136 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by zipdogso View Post
It always amazes me how people come on here and without really checking say they have the most amazing way to cool such and such...
For every idea anyone can come up with there IS at least one other person who has already done it...

....and that includes aquarium chillers...it's nothing new....

Try it by all means and put your results here (we are interested.) BUT don't kid yourself your a pioneer....
I did a LOT of looking around before I started this. I have seen the mineral oil fish tank (no thanks) and many converted FrankenFridge builds (I don't have the build skills for that).... but the best Aq/C thread I could find was this one... and nobody posted results.

Never in a million years did I say I was a Pioneer, nor did I think this was the first time it might have been done... but I couldn't find anything that DEMONSTRATED that it wasn't worth trying.

I am fighting with my bigNG, trying to get it working under Win 7 (any hints would be welcome)... so there is still a LOT of work to do. I will post results and more pics as I go along...

FlashG
    
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post #137 of 216
Well I don't want you stop doing what your doing...

And I hope you will prove me wrong....

A few considerations :-

1.) Aquarium chillers are designed to cool a body of water that has no heating beyond conduction from the ambient and perhaps some from various bits of equipment - sterilizers, osmosis units, lights etc but nothing that imparts a great heat. That's why why it works with 85w peltiers and also 1/10 hp compressors - not much heat. Larger chillers are for much larger tanks which often have a larger lighting load etc and some of them are pretty big.
Now if you consider the heat of a PC it is very much more and your model of peltier chiller is about the smallest around.

2.) Aquarium chillers have been used in PCs before, the recommended compressor size is 1/3 hp minimum for CPU+GPU and I know you are only doing CPU but these units are rather a lot more than your 85w peltier.

3.) From what i know about peltiers, and i have used them for a while, perhaps I should say, what i know about 80w peltiers, I don't think this will work too well. I dont know the TDP of a xeon but I suspect your aim of a 5 degrees off the loop temp under load is going to be hard to get.
Edited by zipdogso - 12/12/09 at 4:20pm
post #138 of 216
Has he bought one yet?
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post #139 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashG View Post
It was the largest peltier unit I could buy here in Australia. I think there is a larger one out there somewhere, but I can't get it here in Aus.

All the other chillers are refrigeration units, and probably aren't meant to run all the time. The compressors are likely louder too.

This peltier unit has a temp control, so I can fine tune it and it is passive. It doesn't have its own pump. I'm going to put it into my loop like any other reservoir, except it will be outside the case. Does that help??

Wait to see if mine works and is any good before you decide to get one. I should have mine up and running before Christmas. It won't be perfectly tuned by Chrisse, but I can post some Realtemp screens at base clock speeds....

FlashG
Actually if you are using an aquarium chiller you will want to get a phase change based unit not a TEC based one. Some aquariums have large constant heat load from lighting as well as ambient temperature. Phase change aquarium chillers designed for use with those can handle a pc. However the issue is cost. They are not cheap. (here is a 1/6 hp unit for 325 http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Hailea-Chille...3D10%26ps%3D63)

If you want to build a water chiller you can do it for much less using a window ac unit.
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post #140 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by zipdogso View Post
Well I don't want you stop doing what your doing...

And I hope you will prove me wrong....

A few considerations :-

1.) Aquarium chillers are designed to cool a body of water that has no heating beyond conduction from the ambient and perhaps some from various bits of equipment - sterilizers, osmosis units, lights etc but nothing that imparts a great heat. That's why why it works with 85w peltiers and also 1/10 hp compressors - not much heat. Larger chillers are for much larger tanks which often have a larger lighting load etc and some of them are pretty big.
Now if you consider the heat of a PC it is very much more and your model of peltier chiller is about the smallest around.

2.) Aquarium chillers have been used in PCs before, the recommended compressor size is 1/3 hp minimum for CPU+GPU and I know you are only doing CPU but these units are rather a lot more than your 85w peltier.

3.) From what i know about peltiers, and i have used them for a while, perhaps I should say, what i know about 80w peltiers, I don't think this will work too well. I dont know the TDP of a xeon but I suspect your aim of a 5 degrees off the loop temp under load is going to be hard to get.
I wish I had found your recommendation for the 1/3hp chiller earlier. Although I didn't really want a compressor, I may have been talked into it...

The temp drop through the chiller is very sensitive to flow rate. I am still sorting out optimum flow, and the temp drop may be greater at higher inflow temps, but right now I am seeing a 2-3C drop.

Still lots of work to do tho....

FlashG
ps - will post some screen captures and pics soon...
    
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