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post #491 of 2014
Hey guys,

So I know to oc well we all need patience. I'm honestly running out of it! I've read the articles on how to overclock and what to do and what not to do but ofcourse im still a novice. So I come back come back for the 3rd time to ask for your advice. This time i also want to ask if anyone here would be my personal mentor? I work in the natural science/lab setting so there are many parallels between that and OC'ing. A major one I recently discovered is that a student can achieve much more of his potential with a good mentor and with this i come to ask to see if anyone will keep in contact with me via email/aim/pm or w/e other method they choose to help me oc my sys (just a couple of minutes a day!) so here is the situation now:

Bios 0702

Ai overclock tunerManual
CPU ratio settingAuto
FSB Frequency445
FSB strap to north bridge333
PCIe Frequency110

Dram frequencyDDR2-1069mhz
Dram Command RateAuto
Dram Timing ControlAuto
Pri. Information : 5-5-5-15-3-52-6-3
Sec. Information: 8-3-5-4-6-4-6
Dram Static read controlAuto
Ai clock twisterAuto
Transaction boosterAuto

Vcore voltage1.4 (cpu-z, asus suite report 1.336 under load)
CPU PLL voltage1.52
FSB Termination Voltage1.42
Dram voltage2.08
North Bridge Voltage1.39
South Bridge VoltageAuto

Loadline calibrationEnable
CPU GTL ReferenceAuto
North Bridge GTL ReferenceAuto
SB 1.5v voltage Auto
CPU Spread SpectrumDisable
PCIe Spread SpectrumDisable

I cannot run this stable for more than 10 minutes on orthos. As a matter of fact I cant run much of anything stable on orthos passed 10 minutes. My goal is a stable 4.0ghz oc. Can anyone help??? PLEASE!!! MUCH APPRECIATED THANKS!

Contact me @ kazavana@gmail or aim: kazavana
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #492 of 2014
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazavana View Post
Hey guys,

So I know to oc well we all need patience. I'm honestly running out of it! I've read the articles on how to overclock and what to do and what not to do but ofcourse im still a novice. So I come back come back for the 3rd time to ask for your advice. This time i also want to ask if anyone here would be my personal mentor? I work in the natural science/lab setting so there are many parallels between that and OC'ing. A major one I recently discovered is that a student can achieve much more of his potential with a good mentor and with this i come to ask to see if anyone will keep in contact with me via email/aim/pm or w/e other method they choose to help me oc my sys (just a couple of minutes a day!) so here is the situation now:

Bios 0702

Ai overclock tunerManual
CPU ratio settingAuto
FSB Frequency445
FSB strap to north bridge333
PCIe Frequency110

Dram frequencyDDR2-1069mhz
Dram Command RateAuto
Dram Timing ControlAuto
Pri. Information : 5-5-5-15-3-52-6-3
Sec. Information: 8-3-5-4-6-4-6
Dram Static read controlAuto
Ai clock twisterAuto
Transaction boosterAuto

Vcore voltage1.4 (cpu-z, asus suite report 1.336 under load)
CPU PLL voltage1.52
FSB Termination Voltage1.42
Dram voltage2.08
North Bridge Voltage1.39
South Bridge VoltageAuto

Loadline calibrationEnable
CPU GTL ReferenceAuto
North Bridge GTL ReferenceAuto
SB 1.5v voltage Auto
CPU Spread SpectrumDisable
PCIe Spread SpectrumDisable

I cannot run this stable for more than 10 minutes on orthos. As a matter of fact I cant run much of anything stable on orthos passed 10 minutes. My goal is a stable 4.0ghz oc. Can anyone help??? PLEASE!!! MUCH APPRECIATED THANKS!

Contact me @ kazavana@gmail or aim: kazavana
Lets see if the board is unstable, The ram, or if it is the CPU.
What you can do to test if it is the NB voltage being too low (which makes the board unstable and not the CPU), drop the CPU's multi to x8 and see how long Orthos runs.

Also try dropping the ram divider so it is only running at 900 MHz and run Orthos.

Finally increase your NB voltage to 1.45v. Then see what happens.




As for your settings, I see a couple of things I would change.

First of all, I would disable loadline calibration. From what I've read, it shouldnt be run with the 45nm CPUs. Just make sure your CPU stays below 1.2625v vcore.

Set your FSB Termination to 1.40v max. With the 45nm CPUs, anything over 1.40v 24/7 is bad.


Also, what is your tRFC running at? it needs to be set higher then 52. It is the second sub timing (second after the command rate I believe) you can change. it should be selectable from 30, 40 55 etc... basically in big numbers.


Edit: Here is some info on loadline. You will notice that the P5E is supposed to be clear of this, but many still report it as a problem.

XS Forums
Quote:
Originally Posted by 003 View Post
Ok, I'm sure you all know what Vdroop is. You know, that nasty little thing that causes your CPU's voltage to significantly drop when under load? I'm sure you all also know of the various motherboard modifications that people have devised to counter the effects of Vdroop, most notably the pencil mod. Some motherboards even have an option in their BIOS to disable Vdroop, the Rampage Formula is one such motherboard. However, it has a little known problem with its method of disabling Vdroop:
If you use it with a 45nm CPU, your system will be fully prime stable, but it will crash and BSOD under absolutely no load.

AnandTech was the first source to draw somewhat widespread attention to this issue. A quote from their writeup on the subject:

Here is a link to the whole writeup:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=3184&p=5

When I first read the article, I disregarded it, and used LLC on my Rampage Formula with a Q9450. Things were great, fully prime stable, everything was going well. That is of course, everything but the random crashes and BSODs while the system was under absolutely zero load. It took me a while to figure out what was causing the crashes, as I was hoping it was not LLC, because it let me use a significantly lower voltage.

If you read deeply into that AnandTech writeup, they make it sound like Vdroop control is not possible to utilize on 45nm CPUs and remain stable due to technical reasons (even though their justifications are way off base). I was starting to believe that it actually might be true, until I found this:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...05#post3021605

Apparently, the LLC feature on the Asus P5E works perfectly with 45nm CPUs, but not on the Rampage Formula. Which is just as I thought: It is possible. I did some closer reading of the AnandTech article, and it says that the instability is caused by a sort of "reverse Vdroop", or in other words, the idle voltage is lower than the load voltage.

However, I have done some testing and it appears that the delta between idle and load is much smaller with LLC enabled than without, going by the CPU-z voltage readings (inaccurate, I know). With LLC enabled, I set voltage to ~1.36750 in the BIOS which resulted in an idle reading in CPU-z of 1.352v, and a load reading of 1.360v. With LLC disabled, I had to increase the BIOS voltage to 1.40625v to remain stable. The idle voltage reading in CPU-z was 1.400v, and the load is 1.352v, the same as the idle voltage with LLC. So, with apparently the same stable load voltage without LLC, the CPU is unstable with LLC at idle. I don't know why this is, but just to make sure, I set the BIOS voltage to 1.38v with LLC and the crashing/BSODs remained at idle. But to illustrate, the voltage delta with LLC is .008v (hardly anything), and .048v without (a lot), as well as the deltas being reversed.

Clearly, there is something flawed with the implementation of LLC on the Rampage Formula, and AnandTech is wrong about it not being compatible with 45nm CPU, regardless of their fancy looking graphs. Because now the fact stands that LLC works perfectly on 45nm CPUs with the Asus P5E, which is supposed to be an inferior motherboard.

We need to find a way to jointly contact Asus regarding this issue and have them work on it in a BIOS release. I have already sent two tickets regarding this issue and have not received any response. If many people do so, maybe they will do something.

Anyway, those with the Rampage Formula and a 45nm CPU, please test with LLC on your overclock; does the system crash when idle and remain stable under load? Please vote in the poll.

Edited by ericeod - 6/4/08 at 6:47pm
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post #493 of 2014
I Just ran Orthos blend test and it lasted for 31 mins 23 seconds. Vcore on cpu-z read 1.200 under stress and 1.208 when not. I changed the bios setting like you told me to (I think - please correct me if im wrong) but still unstable as you can see. What should be the next step?


Ai overclock tunerManual
CPU ratio setting8
FSB Frequency450
FSB strap to north bridge400
PCIe Frequency110

Dram frequencyDDR2-900mhz
Dram Command RateAuto
Dram Timing ControlManual

CAS# latency5
RAS# to CAS# latency5
RAS# Precharge5
RAS# Active Time15
RAS# to RAS# DelayAuto
Row Refresh Cycle Time60
Write Recovery TimeAuto
Read to Precharge TimeAuto

Read to Write Delay (S/D)Auto
Write to Read Delay (S)Auto
Write to Read Delay (D)Auto
Read to Read Delay (S)Auto
Read to Read Delay (D)Auto
Write to write delay (S)Auto
Write to write delay (D)Auto



Dram Static read controlAuto
Ai clock twisterAuto
Transaction boosterAuto

Vcore voltage1.25625
CPU PLL voltage1.52
FSB Termination Voltage1.38
Dram voltage2.08
North Bridge Voltage1.45
South Bridge VoltageAuto

Loadline calibrationDisable
CPU GTL ReferenceAuto
North Bridge GTL ReferenceAuto
SB 1.5v voltage Auto
CPU Spread SpectrumDisable
PCIe Spread SpectrumDisable
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post #494 of 2014
i forgot to add, orthos said cpu speed is 4045mhz while cpu-z read 3600mhz??? why the difference?
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post #495 of 2014
could be from EIST aka speedstep.
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post #496 of 2014
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spacegoast View Post
could be from EIST aka speedstep.
One program is reading the FSB with the default multi (x9), and the other is reading the correct FSB and actual multi (x8). CPU-Z is correct.

It sounds like the board and or ram isnt stable. Try increasing the NB voltage to 1.5v and give it another run. Also make sure the ram is at DDR2 900 and the tRFC is at 60.
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post #497 of 2014
could someone give me an answer what is difference between AMD/Nforce tRC and Intel boards tRFC?

tRC is 'Row Cycle Time' and tRFC is 'Row Refresh Cycle Time' I understand that much and also that tRC on my board can be 16 stock around 21-24, but I cannot set this at X38 and there is only 'tRFC' which goes stabile at 25-40 easily.

I tryied google and probably every single explain there is on web none explains difference of these 2. So couple some intelligent fellow explain me what is the difference should I adjust this tRFC simlar or same as tRC???

Thanks for advance.

(edit: Also note that tRC and tRFC both seems to affect on full row usability and so those both will affect incredibly much on what is latencies specially when the latencies will be and are doubt to different (second) row of memories. I am also assuming this is core of all problems when we speak of 'single row' memory performing against 'dual row' memory setups.)

-update-

Well, testing here seems this tRFC has no affect at all on anything from 25 to 100 doesn't matter it seems. funny thing is also that tRAS has absolutely no affect, hehe..

But I did dig up the 'PCI Mapped Memory'/'Memory Remap feature' switch on second page. This switch will lose 1 GB of system physical memory from 4 Gigz. Funny, thing in this is that when you disable the mapping. your Latencies jump like 5-15ns lower also the memory speed seems to get rise from 7100MB/s to 7560MB/s reading.. Copying writing is simlar effect.
Edited by TwL - 6/5/08 at 5:04am
post #498 of 2014
Ran orthos for 35 mins 2 seconds before it crashed on the following settings:

Ai overclock tunerManual
CPU ratio setting8
FSB Frequency450
FSB strap to north bridge400
PCIe Frequency110

Dram frequencyDDR2-900mhz
Dram Command RateAuto
Dram Timing ControlManual

CAS# latency5
RAS# to CAS# latency5
RAS# Precharge5
RAS# Active Time15
RAS# to RAS# DelayAuto
Row Refresh Cycle Time60
Write Recovery TimeAuto
Read to Precharge TimeAuto

Read to Write Delay (S/D)Auto
Write to Read Delay (S)Auto
Write to Read Delay (D)Auto
Read to Read Delay (S)Auto
Read to Read Delay (D)Auto
Write to write delay (S)Auto
Write to write delay (D)Auto



Dram Static read controlAuto
Ai clock twisterAuto
Transaction boosterAuto

Vcore voltage1.25625
CPU PLL voltage1.52
FSB Termination Voltage1.38
Dram voltage2.08
North Bridge Voltage1.51
South Bridge VoltageAuto

Loadline calibrationDisable
CPU GTL ReferenceAuto
North Bridge GTL ReferenceAuto
SB 1.5v voltage Auto
CPU Spread SpectrumDisable
PCIe Spread SpectrumDisable

I set the tRFC to 60, and the ram to DDR2 - 900. I turned off speedstepping and still have the discrepancy between cpu-z and orthos. Still seems like mobo/ram is unstable but I have no clue how to fix it. Thank guys
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post #499 of 2014
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazavana View Post
Ran orthos for 35 mins 2 seconds before it crashed on the following settings:

Ai overclock tunerManual
CPU ratio setting8
FSB Frequency450
FSB strap to north bridge400
PCIe Frequency110

Dram frequencyDDR2-900mhz
Dram Command RateAuto
Dram Timing ControlManual

CAS# latency5
RAS# to CAS# latency5
RAS# Precharge5
RAS# Active Time15
RAS# to RAS# DelayAuto
Row Refresh Cycle Time60
Write Recovery TimeAuto
Read to Precharge TimeAuto

Read to Write Delay (S/D)Auto
Write to Read Delay (S)Auto
Write to Read Delay (D)Auto
Read to Read Delay (S)Auto
Read to Read Delay (D)Auto
Write to write delay (S)Auto
Write to write delay (D)Auto



Dram Static read controlAuto
Ai clock twisterAuto
Transaction boosterAuto

Vcore voltage1.25625
CPU PLL voltage1.52
FSB Termination Voltage1.38
Dram voltage2.08
North Bridge Voltage1.51
South Bridge VoltageAuto

Loadline calibrationDisable
CPU GTL ReferenceAuto
North Bridge GTL ReferenceAuto
SB 1.5v voltage Auto
CPU Spread SpectrumDisable
PCIe Spread SpectrumDisable

I set the tRFC to 60, and the ram to DDR2 - 900. I turned off speedstepping and still have the discrepancy between cpu-z and orthos. Still seems like mobo/ram is unstable but I have no clue how to fix it. Thank guys
Try setting the Dram Static read control to disable (allows for more ram stability) and set the Vcore to 1.325v. I would also try setting the CPU GTL Reference voltage to x63 and the NB GTL Reference voltage to x67 (this gives stability to quad cores, so give it a try with the dual core).
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post #500 of 2014
So far i've ran orthos for 1 hour 40 minutes and everything seems stable with the last few changes you advised. Here is the current bios set up.

Ai overclock tunerManual
CPU ratio setting8
FSB Frequency450
FSB strap to north bridge400
PCIe Frequency110

Dram frequencyDDR2-900mhz
Dram Command RateAuto
Dram Timing ControlManual

CAS# latency5
RAS# to CAS# latency5
RAS# Precharge5
RAS# Active Time15
RAS# to RAS# DelayAuto
Row Refresh Cycle Time60
Write Recovery TimeAuto
Read to Precharge TimeAuto

Read to Write Delay (S/D)Auto
Write to Read Delay (S)Auto
Write to Read Delay (D)Auto
Read to Read Delay (S)Auto
Read to Read Delay (D)Auto
Write to write delay (S)Auto
Write to write delay (D)Auto



Dram Static read controlDisable
Ai clock twisterAuto
Transaction boosterAuto

Vcore voltage1.325
CPU PLL voltage1.52
FSB Termination Voltage1.38
Dram voltage2.08
North Bridge Voltage1.51
South Bridge VoltageAuto

Loadline calibrationDisable
CPU GTL Referencex63
North Bridge GTL Referencex67
SB 1.5v voltage Auto
CPU Spread SpectrumDisable
PCIe Spread SpectrumDisable

In an attempt to learn, it is the motherboard/ram which was unstable from the beginning right?? I'm going to leave orthos running overnight for at least 8 hours and i will get back to you guys on how its doing tomorrow. Thanks a million so far!!
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My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz 6MB L2 Cach ASUS P5E LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX Intel Motherboard BFG Tech BFGE88512GTSE GeForce 8800GTS (G92) 512MB G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1000 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250410AS 250GB 7200 R SAMSUNG Black 20X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 20X Windows XP SP2 Dell 1801 FP 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
dell COOLER MASTER Real Power Pro RS-650-ACAA-A1 650W A No name old case Logitech 
Mouse Pad
fUnc Surfacace 1030 
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Overclock.net › Forums › Intel › Intel Motherboards › THE Asus Rampage Formula/Maximus Formula/P5E Deluxe/P5E Thread