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The Socket 939 Appreciation Club and Knowledgebase [Official] - Page 1317

post #13161 of 28691
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeV_E36 View Post
You mean that if for example 65celsius is safe for stock then for 1.40v would be 55celsius?
I think a translation of Blitz's statement is that the higher your VCore, the smaller your temperature headroom becomes (because higher VCore almost always results in higher temperatures). In other words, you have fewer degrees C/F left to play with before the chip starts to exhibit signs of instability induced by high temperatures.

This is a simplification, of course, which completely ignores the efficiency of your cooling equipment, not to mention ambient temperatures, overall case cooling properties, etc. But as a generalization, it's a valid one, in my opinion.
    
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post #13162 of 28691
My statement is actually the higher the voltage, the lower the temperature you can physically see. That is, higher voltages cause damage at lower temperatures. The correlation is proven, the exact formula to the correlation is not.
     
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post #13163 of 28691
I mentioned 55c as example. I just can't understand how the increase in voltage could get the temp threshold down. Maybe you mean that while overvolted the deltas in temp are quicker than in stock? I just can't see how overvolting gets a cpu more vulnerable to temp. A cpu loading at 60celsius whether it's @1.35v or @1.40v is pretty much the same safe for me (that's just another example of course having the same temp in real life can rarely occur).
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post #13164 of 28691
Two things make electomigration easier: increased heat (and so the electrons move faster) and increased voltage (and so the electrons have greater energy). Thus, to prevent damage, you want to be sure to minimize both. This is why people who are on W/C can use more voltage and people on phase chance can use more still: there is less heat permitting more voltage before there is a problem. There are some voltages that are flat out lethal unless you have extreme cooling however.
     
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post #13165 of 28691
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz6804 View Post
My statement is actually the higher the voltage, the lower the temperature you can physically see. That is, higher voltages cause damage at lower temperatures. The correlation is proven, the exact formula to the correlation is not.
I'm not convinced of this, to be honest, TestECull's experiences notwithstanding. One testimonial does not prove a rule.

At any rate, if this is what you meant, why not say it this way in the first place? (And to be a real stickler for language here, your wording is still a little vague.)
    
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post #13166 of 28691
Let me try this rewording:

If you are using a higher voltage than AMD recommends, you can damage your processor at a lower temperature than AMD warns.

Ist klar?
     
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post #13167 of 28691
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz6804 View Post
Two things make electomigration easier: increased heat (and so the electrons move faster) and increased voltage (and so the electrons have greater energy). Thus, to prevent damage, you want to be sure to minimize both. This is why people who are on W/C can use more voltage and people on phase chance can use more still: there is less heat permitting more voltage before there is a problem. There are some voltages that are flat out lethal unless you have extreme cooling however.
I totally disagree with this. Electromigration gets tougher when heat is increased. This is electronics law. In hot enviroments electrons do move faster thus colliding with each other and getting migration lots tougher that in lower temperatures. My opinion about voltage and temps is that a cpu won't be fried in some cases cause of the lowered safe temperature. The temperature that electronic components can stand is standard and doesn't vary due to voltage changes. So even if you go @1.8v, if you can mantain the temp lower than 65c then you won't fry your cpu cause of heat. Of course it's going to be fried but not cause of heat but from overvoltage. All electronic components have a nominal voltage range that operate. Just think of volting the ATX of your mobo with 50v. Will it go boom cause of increase in temp?? It's gonna be dead before even starting to feel hot
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post #13168 of 28691
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz6804 View Post
Let me try this rewording:

If you are using a higher voltage than AMD recommends, you can damage your processor at a lower temperature than AMD warns.

Seine klar?
Clearer.

But it's still a contentious point (to me) because I haven't seen any clear evidence that supports this (again, TestECull's case notwithstanding). Therefore, I would not personally consider it an absolute "rule."

As a cautionary advisory, however, I feel this is adequate, if considerably conservative. But there simply is not enough evidence as submitted by end users (that I've seen) to support it as a true principle or "law."

In fact, there are many examples that fly in the face of this idea. pio can vouch for that, as could I.
    
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post #13169 of 28691
I really do not think either of you can. At present, neither of your processors are near 10 years old. There is no way to tell if you are shortening their lifespan until they die. It explains why overclockers everywhere will tell you that you can give something on water cooling more voltage than air cooling because, in general, water cooling keeps the temperature lower. Who cares if your safe temperature has gone down because of a voltage increase if you are still no-where near the new, reduced limit?

I really feel no more need to belittle the point. The whole matter of voltages and temperatures is largely a matter of choice. I am on the conservative side of things. Pioneerisloud is on the crazy side of things. Most people will likely fall somewhere between us and be quite happy.
     
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post #13170 of 28691
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz6804 View Post
Let me try this rewording:

If you are using a higher voltage than AMD recommends, you can damage your processor at a lower temperature than AMD warns.

Ist klar?
Very very clear. What I'm saying is:

Increasing volts, increases heat. Heat is energy measured in watts. In cpu most electrical energy transforms into heat. VoltsxAmpers=Watts. Upping the Volts ups the Watts, the energy transformed into heat which means higher temps if you can't dissipate the heat. Keeping the cpu beyond it's temp limit, is safe but no matter how cool you can keep it, if you get out of it's voltage limits it's gonna die for sure.
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