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The Socket 939 Appreciation Club and Knowledgebase [Official] - Page 1318

post #13171 of 28665
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz6804 View Post
Let me try this rewording:

If you are using a higher voltage than AMD recommends, you can damage your processor at a lower temperature than AMD warns.

Ist klar?
So my X2 is rated for 49 - 71C, and if I run it at that, with 1.5vcore, I can really damage it? Gets up to like 67C on load, iirc [can't check, I don't have a PSU]

I should change some bios settings
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post #13172 of 28665
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz6804 View Post
I really do not think either of you can. At present, neither of your processors are near 10 years old. There is no way to tell if you are shortening their lifespan until they die. It explains why overclockers everywhere will tell you that you can give something on water cooling more voltage than air cooling because, in general, water cooling keeps the temperature lower. Who cares if your safe temperature has gone down because of a voltage increase if you are still no-where near the new, reduced limit?
Touche. (I know, it lacks the necessary accent mark... not my fault...) True enough and well said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz6804 View Post
I really feel no more need to belittle the point. The whole matter of voltages and temperatures is largely a matter of choice. I am on the conservative side of things. Pioneerisloud is on the crazy side of things. Most people will likely fall somewhere between us and be quite happy.
Again, well said. But this is why I say that you do things your own way; you go as high and as hot as you're comfortable (see four or five or six posts back). So thanks for reasserting my point.

It's all well and good to remind people of AMD's published advisories, but there is absolutely no doubt that the figures they put out are on the extremely conservative side. Moreover, they are declared to protect and reinforce their side when warranty claims are made against their products. That is the difference between looking at these from the manufacturer's point of view as a product/product line, and looking at them as purely products of engineering.

(From an engineering standpoint, these products are FAR more robust and resilient than AMD -- or Intel, or nVidia, or whatever company you might want to substitute here -- and its marketing division would have you believe.)

Obviously, what I'm saying here is that overclockers as a group will always favor the engineering perspective; if this is untrue, they wouldn't engage in overclocking at all (why? Because overclocking a chip, in many cases, is explicitly forbidden by the manufacturer.).
    
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post #13173 of 28665
That is what I THINK, but I have no proof. An E4/E6 3800+ (Manchester) is good to 71º C @ 1.350 V according to AMD.
     
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post #13174 of 28665
As heat increases resistance is lowered. With lower resistance components fail because one element (or compound) can no longer match the potential against it losing an electron to a higher potential. thus Lock ups on CPU's.

This in no way means the component is damaged. The element or compound used is not damaged by this unless the potential between the 2 points is of such magnitude that it causes a chemical reaction (such as welding 2 metals).

So in theory, technically speaking.

HEAT IS BAD

But you really have to go way beyond specs to cause damage. All procesors are dialed back a specific tolerance before release. IIRC Intel was 15% and AMD was 12% (last time I checked was late 90's).

So stop sounding like little old ladies bickering over stuff you can't prove or disprove because you lack both the knowledge and instruments to do so.
post #13175 of 28665
Quote:
Originally Posted by simfreak47 View Post
So my X2 is rated for 49 - 71C, and if I run it at that, with 1.5vcore, I can really damage it?

I should change some bios settings
You are running @1.5v with stock cooling???? What temps do you get? I personally wouldn't go past 1.45v on air.
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post #13176 of 28665
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeV_E36 View Post
You are running @1.5v with stock cooling???? What temps do you get? I personally wouldn't go past 1.45v on air.
Noo... I have a Arctic Freezer 64

(both the CPU and AF64 are lapped, btw)
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post #13177 of 28665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hueristic View Post
So stop sounding like little old ladies bickering over stuff you can't prove or disprove because you lack both the knowledge and instruments to do so.
Loool

Speaking of heat, is the amd heat-pipe shink any good??
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post #13178 of 28665
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeV_E36 View Post
You are running @1.5v with stock cooling???? What temps do you get? I personally wouldn't go past 1.45v on air.
Heh, that's been done (back when he had a Club contest with stock cooling only).

I may have run an Opteron with more than 1.5V on my stock cooler... As I recall, it was topping out at around 63 degs C or so at the cores, at 2.8GHz.

Mind you, if the speed seems low, it was because we had to validate the contest entries with a battery of stress tests to prove stability. That was harder to do than with our last, all suicides contest.

(What must be said, though, is that I ran the stock cooler on a naked chip. )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hueristic View Post
So stop sounding like little old ladies bickering over stuff you can't prove or disprove because you lack both the knowledge and instruments to do so.
See, this is why I'm loathe to quote numbers and such. I have run my tests (gosh, so much time have I put into my own testing) and share what I can. I don't pretend to understand exactly what electromigration is (even if I can read the Wiki article on it), nor do I have a great understanding of electricity or electronics in general. I stick to observations and don't worry about science and theory too much because I don't have the background for it.

But I do trust my data and findings, and my (limited) ability to analyze situations. And this is also why I insist that people ought to do their own testing.

If there is one truism in this hobby, it's that there are just almost infinite factors at play that can affect the outcome of any scenario.
Edited by txtmstrjoe - 2/27/09 at 5:09pm
    
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post #13179 of 28665
Quote:
Originally Posted by simfreak47 View Post
Noo... I have a Arctic Freezer 64
(both the CPU and AF64 are lapped, btw)
If you feel comfy with your voltages and temps then there's no reason to freak out. After tons of posts we have just concluded to the fact that this matter rests to each person's experience and likings and of course as our friend Hueristic says "HEAT IS BAD"

Quote:
Originally Posted by txtmstrjoe View Post
Heh, that's been done (back when he had a Club contest with stock cooling only).

I may have run an Opteron with more than 1.5V on my stock cooler... As I recall, it was topping out at around 63 degs C or so at the cores, at 2.8GHz.

Mind you, if the speed seems low, it was because we had to validate the contest entries with a battery of stress tests to prove stability. That was harder to do than with our last, all suicides contest.

(What must be said, though, is that I ran the stock cooler on a naked chip. )
You guys are really trully crazy! I'd be glad to meet you in person and grab a beer with ya! Are you having any club meetings at all? I might be visiting your continent in the late March
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post #13180 of 28665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hueristic View Post
So stop sounding like little old ladies bickering over stuff you can't prove or disprove because you lack both the knowledge and instruments to do so.
Or perhaps we do have the knowledge and/or instruments to do so and were are just too lazy or inarticulate to get the point across?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeV_E36 View Post
You guys are really trully crazy! I'd be glad to meet you in person and grab a beer with ya! Are you having any club meetings at all? I might be visiting your continent in the late March
The only IRL meeting I know about for the club is my place on September 3rd of this year. OCN has regular gatherings too, I just do not know when or where they are.
     
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APC SMT1500 HP Photosmart 3210xi All-in-One 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core 2 Duo T7700 Merom Toshiba ISRAA 1.0 (Socket 479) ATI Mobility Radeon HD2600 modded CCC 10.6 OCZ2MV6674GK 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Hitachi Travelstar 7K500 HD20500 Western Digital Caviar Blue (WD6400BEVT-22A0RT0) Matshita DVD-RAM UJ-850S ATA Stock heatpipe system 
CoolingOSOSOS
Thermaltake Massive23 CS Windows 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Windows XP Home x64 SP3 (via Virtualbox) DOS 5.0 (via DOSbox) 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
17.0" Diagonal Widescreen WSXGA+ Internal only 19 V, 6.32 A Stock 17" Satellite shell (8.5 lbs) 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G500 Small generic black foam mat HP Thin USB Powered Speakers Fiio E5 Headphone Amplifier 
AudioOtherOther
Griffin iTrip P1141 Microsoft GPS 168 Toshiba Backpack PA1366U-1NCS 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Athlon XP-M 2500+ Barton Hewlett-Packard 0024 ATI Mobility Radeon IGP-320M Crucial CT6464X265.16FG 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Toshiba MK4021GAS Toshiba SD-R2512 Stock heatpipes Windows XP Home SP3 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
15.0" XGA TFT Internal only 18.5 V, 4.9 A Stock 15" Pavilion Shell (8 lbs) 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Logitech MX510 Gaming Optical Generic gel-based green Internal Altec Lansing only Targus PAU10KU 
OtherOther
D-Link DWL-G650M Generic black messenger-style bag 
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