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The Socket 939 Appreciation Club and Knowledgebase [Official] - Page 34

post #331 of 28698
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuardianOdin View Post
also one thing to remember with the Opterons is they are server chips and meant to last much longer than the cheaper desktops chips. I can almost guarantee they normally run under harsher conditions than we do. Dust/closed poorly ventilated rooms....etc.
Actually, it's interesting you've brought this up.

This has been the subject of a long "debate" as to whether S939 are "true" server-class CPUs, or if they are just "higher-binned" chips made from the same wafers as X2 dual-cores (or San Diego single-cores, as far as the Venus single-core Opterons are concerned) and FX-series chips.

Though AMD has never issued any official communique addressing the subject, my personal opinion is that, as far as the DDR single-socket era (i.e., S939 and S940) is concerned, only the S940 Opterons qualified as server-class CPUs. The S940 chips were really server-class chips, and were the basis for the first FX-series chips.

AMD realized, though, that they would be alienating the mainstream market sector (the target for S939) by only releasing the flagship FX-series CPUs if it was a S940, so they introduced fully-unlocked S939 chips and dubbed these Athlon64 FX, and phased out the original FXs. They took the very best chips from the San Diego (and later, with the FX-60, the Toledo dual-core) line, unlocked the multiplier, and made very wealthy OCers very happy.

They did the same with the Opteron line. Realizing that they could capitalize on the superb reputation of S940 Opterons as stable chips, AMD introduced the S939 Opteron in both single-core (Venus) and dual-core (Denmark) flavors. The Venus core is identical to the San Diego, while the Denmark is the same as the Toledo; this is why, until very recently, programs like CPU-Z identified S939 Opterons by the Athlon core name.

You could see that Athlons and Opterons with identical features (# of cores; transistor count; cache sizes) and instruction sets are, indeed, equivalents, identical in all but name. The chips' stepping codes also make this obvious. I have Athlon X2s and dual-core Opterons with the same basic stepping batch (CCBWE). This is one big reason why I'm convinced the S939 Opteron is not like the original S940 Opteron, which was designed, from the ground-up, as a true server-class product.

Anyway, enough blathering on from me.
    
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post #332 of 28698
ew. nasty. i remember cleaning the clinic i used to work at.. the computers.. oh man.. i had to take it outside to blow the dust out (wouldnt want to make the entire office dusty...) that would defeat the purpose of "cleaning"
 
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post #333 of 28698
Quote:
Originally Posted by txtmstrjoe View Post
Actually, it's interesting you've brought this up.

This has been the subject of a long "debate" as to whether S939 are "true" server-class CPUs, or if they are just "higher-binned" chips made from the same wafers as X2 dual-cores (or San Diego single-cores, as far as the Venus single-core Opterons are concerned) and FX-series chips.

Though AMD has never issued any official communique addressing the subject, my personal opinion is that, as far as the DDR single-socket era (i.e., S939 and S940) is concerned, only the S940 Opterons qualified as server-class CPUs. The S940 chips were really server-class chips, and were the basis for the first FX-series chips.

AMD realized, though, that they would be alienating the mainstream market sector (the target for S939) by only releasing the flagship FX-series CPUs if it was a S940, so they introduced fully-unlocked S939 chips and dubbed these Athlon64 FX, and phased out the original FXs. They took the very best chips from the San Diego (and later, with the FX-60, the Toledo dual-core) line, unlocked the multiplier, and made very wealthy OCers very happy.

They did the same with the Opteron line. Realizing that they could capitalize on the superb reputation of S940 Opterons as stable chips, AMD introduced the S939 Opteron in both single-core (Venus) and dual-core (Denmark) flavors. The Venus core is identical to the San Diego, while the Denmark is the same as the Toledo; this is why, until very recently, programs like CPU-Z identified S939 Opterons by the Athlon core name.

You could see that Athlons and Opterons with identical features (# of cores; transistor count; cache sizes) and instruction sets are, indeed, equivalents, identical in all but name. The chips' stepping codes also make this obvious. I have Athlon X2s and dual-core Opterons with the same basic stepping batch (CCBWE). This is one big reason why I'm convinced the S939 Opteron is not like the original S940 Opteron, which was designed, from the ground-up, as a true server-class product.

Anyway, enough blathering on from me.
Very interesting read. However I would like to address one issue here. You stated that the x2 and Opteron dual core chips have the same L2 cache...whereas that information is false. The x2 3800 has 2x512kB cache whereas the Opteron dual cores have 2x1MB cache. MOST of the X2 series only have 2x512kb. If I remember correctly, the only X2 chip that had 2x1MB cache was the X2 4800 which wasn't available for very long compared to others. Just my $0.02.
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post #334 of 28698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damage82 View Post


Here is where I am at right now. I have my ram volt @ 2.75.... Is that too high? Any suggestions would be more than welcomed.
Any help? Just want to make sure I'm not gonna fry my ram? Also what is a good limit for the CPU?
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post #335 of 28698
Well bud the limits are all up to your individual hardware. The only thing I can say is test it out and see. The CCBBE's if I remember correctly have the tendancy to clock fairly high but with some decent voltage. Your RAM looks safe...I'm sure it could go higher or tighter...but just make sure its stable by using Orthos blended or Memtest (just for RAM). I usually keep my RAM under 2.75v without spreaders, or 2.90v with.
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post #336 of 28698
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pioneerisloud View Post
Very interesting read. However I would like to address one issue here. You stated that the x2 and Opteron dual core chips have the same L2 cache...whereas that information is false. The x2 3800 has 2x512kB cache whereas the Opteron dual cores have 2x1MB cache. MOST of the X2 series only have 2x512kb. If I remember correctly, the only X2 chip that had 2x1MB cache was the X2 4800 which wasn't available for very long compared to others. Just my $0.02.
Well...

I didn't address the Manchesters, which DO have the 2x512KB L2 cache. I was speaking purely about the Toledos, which, like the Denmarks, have 2x1MB L2 cache.

Speaking of Toledos, originally there were two X2 models based on the Toledo: The X2 4400+, and the X2 4800+ (2.2GHz & 2.4GHz stock speeds, respectively). By the end of the S939 era, we started seeing X2s with half their L2 cache disabled (X2 3800+s, X2 4200+s, and sometimes the rare X2 4600+s), and even single-core Toledos (Athlon64 3700+s and 4000+s) with one entire core disabled. Obviously, when AMD started ramping up production of AM2 chips, they scaled back S939 parts production massively and only made Toledo/Denmark chips, and then started binning them according to how healthy they proved during pre-sale testing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damage82 View Post
Any help? Just want to make sure I'm not gonna fry my ram? Also what is a good limit for the CPU?
2.75V is not that high for most DDR ICs. Run MemTest86+ before booting into the OS; if the voltage is too high for the RAM, you frequently get errors in MemTest86+.

As far as what a good limit for your CPU is, who knows? Only testing various levels of temperature, VCore, and CPU Max Frequency can tell you that.

Don't be too scared to push your CPU! Just don't get reckless.
    
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post #337 of 28698
Quote:
Originally Posted by txtmstrjoe View Post
Well...


Don't be too scared to push your CPU! Just don't get reckless.
Me thinks he's talking about me here? Anybody else get that impression?
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post #338 of 28698
Quote:
Originally Posted by txtmstrjoe View Post
Need clarification: I'm guessing that the system is still overclocked, yes? You've added a second pair of 1GB DIMMs and made the changes you noted above, correct?

If so, it sounds to me that the additional RAM is too much for the IMC.

Two completely different approaches are possible, in my opinion.

One is to find a way to force your current configuration to "accept" the added strain of the two extra GBs of RAM. You can try VCore increases, chipset voltage increases, and/or LDT voltage increases and see if that might work.

The second, more arduous, approach is to reset everything to default and restart your OC with all four GBs.

I'd be willing to wager, though, that because of the additional RAM, the OC potential ceiling is going to be lower than with just two GBs. Hope I'm wrong, though.

Hope this helps.
Ohhh hell no... I don't have pioneer sized cajones. I returned the board to factory default... because I know that the on die mem-con, though a great innovation, can become saturated way to easily when called upon to run 4 stix. I am hoping to just boot into the OS at the moment, then use a couple of different CMOS reloaded checkpoints I created to take some of the labor out of finding a sweet spot (I definitely think CMOS reloaded is one of DFIs best features...).

I just want this b!tch to POST.... for now
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post #339 of 28698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poser View Post
Ohhh hell no... I don't have pioneer sized cajones. I returned the board to factory default... because I know that the on die mem-con, though a great innovation, can become saturated way to easily when called upon to run 4 stix. I am hoping to just boot into the OS at the moment, then use a couple of different CMOS reloaded checkpoints I created to take some of the labor out of finding a sweet spot (I definitely think CMOS reloaded is one of DFIs best features...).

I just want this b!tch to POST.... for now
The stuff in bold I'd personally like to address.

It has come to my attention that the myth of 4 sticks is actually false (in my experience). Yes, running 4 sticks of RAM will most likely force you into 2T instead of 1T. However on my fiance's rig...I was able to become stable with 217MHz DDR speed with 4 value sticks. My sig rig wasn't even capable of running 2 past 212.5MHz...no matter what timings. I have a general feeling that its not the amount of sticks...its the amount of memory on the sticks that's adding so much extra stress to the memory controller. When I went from 2x512 value RAM to 2x1GB DDR500 on my sig rig....I was forced to run 2T @ 214MHz on RAM that I know dang good and well should handle better than that. Again...I believe its because of the extra memory...not the extra sticks.

Just my views on this myth. I could be wrong....but I could be right too?
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Windows 8.1 + Steam Big Picture / Plex HT 50" Insignia LED 1080p Logitech Rosewill Green 530w 
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Silverstone HTPC Logitech Pioneer 2.0 tower speakers + 135w RMS Rosewill MCE Remote 
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Junkyard
(18 items)
 
NAStradamous
(12 items)
 
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Intel i5 2320 @ 3.1GHz MSI B75MA-E33 HIS HD7970 3GB @ 1050 / 1700, 1.17v Patriot 2x4GB DDR3-1066 
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Crucial MX100 256GB WD Green 2TB DVDRW Corsair H50 Push / Pull 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
NZXT 120mm fans strapped to stock 7970 cooler Windows 10 Pro Dell 3007WFP Dell 2007FP 
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Dell 2007FP Cheap Toshiba (R.I.P. Ducky) PC Power & Cooling Silencer MKIII 950w Cheap Garbage (free) 
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Logitech G602 Yardsale Special 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3330 Asus H61 MSI GTX 750Ti Low Profile 2x4GB Hynix DDR3-1333 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
60GB Kingston SSD 1TB Seagate Samsung DVDRW CoolerMaster Gemin II 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 8.1 + Steam Big Picture / Plex HT 50" Insignia LED 1080p Logitech Rosewill Green 530w 
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Silverstone HTPC Logitech Pioneer 2.0 tower speakers + 135w RMS Rosewill MCE Remote 
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post #340 of 28698
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pioneerisloud View Post
Me thinks he's talking about me here? Anybody else get that impression?
Was I..?

Wait. Didn't you Kentucky-fry a HDD engaging someone in an OCing shootout..?

    
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Phenom II X3 720 BE Gigabyte GA-MA790FXT-UD5P Sapphire Radeon HD 3870 2 x 2GB Crucial Ballistix Tracers PC3 10600 
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Almost 8TB of storage AMD Stock Cooler Windows Home Server CoolerMaster SilentPro M 700W 
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Lian Li PC-V2000B (with thlnk3r mods) 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II X3 720 BE Gigabyte GA-MA790FXT-UD5P Sapphire Radeon HD 3870 2 x 2GB Crucial Ballistix Tracers PC3 10600 
Hard DriveCoolingOSPower
Almost 8TB of storage AMD Stock Cooler Windows Home Server CoolerMaster SilentPro M 700W 
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Lian Li PC-V2000B (with thlnk3r mods) 
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