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The Socket 939 Appreciation Club and Knowledgebase [Official] - Page 632

post #6311 of 28692
Incoming mega-death-spiel:

More or less it was to get my RAM back. On my AGP board, I had 3552 MB available to me in XP, 3328 MB available to me in Vista. On my PCI-E board, I had 3080 MB available in either operating system.

I know for a fact this has to do with VGA aperture size. That is, the motherboard setting aside some system RAM for use on the video card. On my AGP board, it was adjustable. I had it set to be the-smallest-possible size, 32 MB. We can see this on my XP's RAM. I had 4096 MB installed. The video card was 512 MB. The aperture was 32 MB. Thus, 4096-512-32 = 3552 MB. On Vista, things worked a little differently. As near as I can tell, it took a 224 MB software-based aperture in addition to the 32 MB hardware-based aperture. This explains why my AGP card supposedly had 768 MB of memory according to Window's device manager.

As for the PCI-E board, VGA aperture size is not adjustable. The supposition is that it is 1:1 with the VGA's actual memory, because I have only 3072 MB available to me. That is, 4096-512-512 = 3072. (Interesting to note that my laptop running Vista Ultimate 32-bit has 3070 MB. Do not ask me where the other 2 MB went; darned if I know.) Theoretically then, when I get the second 3850 in here, I should be dropping down to 2048 MB of RAM. It is possible of course that I will be 2560 MB, but why would I run another two DIMMs just for 512 MB? Of course, further, I could always just pull them and get the added bandwidth, but I really need the memory; I hate when it dips into Virtual Memory or Ready Boost.



So, after this long discussion about WHY I am doing it, let me see what I would gain.

According to Everest Ultimate, my memory bandwidth is up to 5770 MBps. This is up from 5445 MBps. That is a 6.0% improvement. Further, SuperPi computes a million digits in 32s. My score in 32x XP/Vista is 33s. (To be fair, 32x Linux does compute Pi faster than 64x Vista, but that is to be expected. What happens when I get around to trying 64x Ubuntu? Time will tell.) Apparently, the small bandwidth improvement is not enough to effect my Windows Experience Index however: it is still my weakest link at 4.8. It is interesting to note that my Western Digital Caviar (ATA-100, 7200 RPM, 8 MB cache) currently hosting Vista 64x also scored a 4.8. My Hitachi Deskstar (SATA-II, 7200 RPM, 32 MB cache) which is hosting Vista 32x/XP 32x scored a 5.9. Is it the cache or the interface? I guess I would need to test also my SATA Caviar (SATA-150, 7200 RPM, 8 MB cache) to be sure. Granted, that is still running half the bandwidth of the Deskstar; so who knows what will happen.

And yes Joe, driver support was holding me back. Creative has really bad Vista drivers. However, that is true for Vista 32x as well. I did find a fix, so the X-Fi sounds almost as good in Vista as it does in XP. Works for me. ATI's Vista support is outstanding I must say. I only wish that they had the 32x/64x driver package in one executable, but that is a minor gripe. I suppose I am used to downloading two packages every month anyway; now instead of XP/Vista, I will be downloading Vista 32x/64x.

The problem is more in the peripherals. Logitech has a 64-bit SetPoint, so my mouse will be fine. I have not tried it, but I am so confident in Logitech, I did not bother. Supposedly also there is a 64-bit version of Logitech Profiler, so I should still be able to use my Playstation 2 steering wheel on it.

The problem lies in Microsoft. As we all know, they like to stop supporting hardware in short order so that you buy the new hardware.

My joystick of choice is my Microsoft Force Feedback Pro 2.0. This joystick was intended to run on Windows 98. I have long-since lost the ability to program it with profiles, as official support ended with the death of Windows ME, but it worked plug-and-pray, and I could program buttons in-game, so it is no problem. It still worked plug-and-pray in Vista 32x, and although, I admit, I did not try it in Vista 64x, I am sure it works.

My issues start with my keyboard. My keyboard is the "Microsoft Office Keyboard." It experienced an EXTREMELY short software support period. That is, it was supported in only one release of Intellitype: 5.0. That is it. It is easy to install Intellitype 5.0 on XP, as that is the OS it was designed for. You can shoe-horn it onto Vista 32x. It is not pretty, but it works. There is no support in any 64-bit Windows, not even XP-64 Pro. It is rumored that the keyboard is supported in Intellitype 5.5, so I will test that now. If it is, then I may be in luck: 5.5 DOES come in a 64-bit version. (Update: I just ran it; the board is not in the installer. Anyone know how to add it as such?)

My mainstay for FPS games, the Microsoft Strategic Commander, is up in the air. Designed for Windows ME, the driver and programming software work natively on Windows XP. The shoehorn process for Windows Vista is cumbersome, but not hard. There is no support for 64-bit. Period. End of story. There is only one version of the driver suite available and that was only 32-bit. I found a fan-created driver that I tested. It does in fact work; I have not tried gaming with it though, so we will see. I can tell you it is much harder to program than the official software.

So there you have it (read: summary at last). Audio is only slightly reduced in Vista. Video is perfect. Mouse is perfect. Joystick is assumed perfect. Keyboard is massively gimped. Strategic commander is slightly reduced.

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post #6312 of 28692
so...

Are my graphics cards (ATi 4850's) too new for my AT8-32X? Still can't run crossfire...

Is anyone running a current-gen Crossfire setup on a 939-gen board?
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post #6313 of 28692
You bought the 4850s WITHOUT knowing if they could run crossfire on your board????????
    
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post #6314 of 28692
i need some advice here..

I am getting extra money at the end of the month (for building a few computers for some friends) and I promised to take the money and either make a usefull Upgrade to my current rig, or to build a new machine that is equally sexy with a performance increase worthy of building a new rig.

my obviou choices would be to grab another 8800 gts for SLI - or Sell my GTS and maybe grab pair of 8800 g92's.

considering my motherboard and PSU should be able to handle that without issue this would be the cheapest possible upgrade and Im sure considerably noticable speed difference for my Gaming .

id rather not give intel any of my money, but if iBuld a new mchine, how an i justify money on an AMD processor that will give very little performance increase over my Opty 165?

i dont want to get rid of my Opty builds, because it is the sexiest computer I have ever built - unfortunatley I still cannot achieve 310 fsb stable =(
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post #6315 of 28692
Quote:
Originally Posted by boonie2 View Post
You bought the 4850s WITHOUT knowing if they could run crossfire on your board????????
My board (both of them!) is a Crossfire chipset! I figured.. Crossfire board should let me Crossfire, right? One would hope...

I'm just asking for people who've DONE it.
Edited by Xyro TR1 - 8/11/08 at 7:03am
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post #6316 of 28692
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormX2 View Post
i need some advice here..

I am getting extra money at the end of the month (for building a few computers for some friends) and I promised to take the money and either make a usefull Upgrade to my current rig, or to build a new machine that is equally sexy with a performance increase worthy of building a new rig.

my obviou choices would be to grab another 8800 gts for SLI - or Sell my GTS and maybe grab pair of 8800 g92's.

considering my motherboard and PSU should be able to handle that without issue this would be the cheapest possible upgrade and Im sure considerably noticable speed difference for my Gaming .

id rather not give intel any of my money, but if iBuld a new mchine, how an i justify money on an AMD processor that will give very little performance increase over my Opty 165?

i dont want to get rid of my Opty builds, because it is the sexiest computer I have ever built - unfortunatley I still cannot achieve 310 fsb stable =(
StormX2, I guess it depends on how much money you'll be getting for your G80 8800GTS if you sell it. Getting another G80 8800GTS is cheaper than two G92s, and the question then becomes one of value for money. Is the increased performance from G92 in SLI worth the cost of two new cards, or is the leap in performance of an additional G80 for really cheap enough for you? For sure, staying with the G80 will be the cheapest upgrade, and despite what others might tell you, unless you'll really be needing the extra graphical horsepower, G80s in SLI will still be viable for the foreseeable future, in my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyro TR1 View Post
My board (both of them!) is a Crossfire chipset! I figured.. Crossfire board should let me Crossfire, right? One would hope...

I'm just asking for people who've DONE it.
Xyro, if I'm not mistaken Blitz will be going Crossfire with his HD 3850 setup. I would consider this to be a "modern" Crossfire setup (i.e., not like my X1950XTs with their external dongle, but with the bridge chip). Perhaps the two of you can swap notes, especially since he has the same motherboard. As to just a general opinion on whether or not it's possible, I can't think of any reason why not.
    
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post #6317 of 28692
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormX2 View Post
I am getting extra money at the end of the month (for building a few computers for some friends) and I promised to take the money and either make a usefull Upgrade to my current rig, or to build a new machine that is equally sexy with a performance increase worthy of building a new rig.
Storm, in my opinion I'd stay with what you have. You have a very nice rig...I wouldn't change anything about it. Save your money and wait

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post #6318 of 28692
aww , not even to say I should hunt for a second 8800 gts?

=)~ and yes I know my computer is to Sexy to get rid of
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post #6319 of 28692
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormX2 View Post
aww , not even to say I should hunt for a second 8800 gts?
Storm, it also depends on what resolution you plan on running at in your games. Is the power requirements, price tag and case ambient temps really worth it? If you want the power of two GPU's then you should wait for the 4870 X2.

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post #6320 of 28692
well i game at 1680x1050, so i know I will benefit from SLI or crossfire
Obviousely i want to make this computer last a long time, though for a NEW graphics card id rather not ever spend more than 300 bucks on it, especially since i am very certain that My processor will hold it back a bit.

otherwise, I guess I will just wait , since I dont really care about any of hte new games, and my performance is fine for CSS and Day of Defeat Source. and well im pretty sure I can handle Spore=)
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