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The Socket 939 Appreciation Club and Knowledgebase [Official] - Page 849

post #8481 of 28703
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N2Gaming View Post

Is the Rated FSB of 1200 what you mean by HT Link? I was under the impression that any value over 1050 would for sure cause instability. By no means am I trying to point out any problems you may be having with your Overclock. I’m still trying to understand the fundamentals with the do’s and don’ts of Overclocking. This is why I ask about the Rated FSB @ 1200
.
I've done quite a bit of testing of the HT Link, especially when it comes to how it affects stability. Regarding my attempts to get the machine S&M-stable, it has no noticeable effect up to the tested speed of 1200MHz (I was actually hoping someone might notice that). How do I know? As I noted earlier, I changed the HT Link Multiplier in my testing (I have CPU-Z validations with this set to 3x, resulting in a HT Link Speed of 900MHz), and the system still failed S&M (it fails during Test 4 of the RAM test component of S&M, which is, frustratingly, the last test the system needed to pass). I can therefore reasonably conclude that, at least with my system, HT Link Speed is not a factor which influences stability.

Will this be true for every S939 system? To be honest, I would say it's very unlikely. You have to test this particular part of your overclock for yourself. However, it's very likely that speeds up to 1200MHz for the HT Link are probably the exception rather than the rule.

In other words, the only way to know what the case is for your system is to do the tests yourself and find out. Assumptions are nothing but guesses, however informed they may be.
    
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post #8482 of 28703
Quote:
Originally Posted by txtmstrjoe View Post
Joe, nice work there. I understand you didn't notice a difference between the clock speeds and on the keyboard level but what about any benchmarks? Loosing 2000MB/s in bandwidth is quite a hit. I too would probably have left it at the original stable OC.

JEmmaB, nice FX-57 OC! The San Diego core was always a nice over

Good luck guys!
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post #8483 of 28703
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thlnk3r View Post
Joe, nice work there. I understand you didn't notice a difference between the clock speeds and on the keyboard level but what about any benchmarks? Loosing 2000MB/s in bandwidth is quite a hit. I too would probably have left it at the original stable OC.
There is a slight increase (maybe less than 100 3DMarks) in 3DMark06; to me, this was insignificant (and rather telling, since it shows that S939s running a modern video card are really too slow; in other words, S939 CPUs, even when OCed to very close to their limits on air cooling, are bottlenecking current-gen video cards). I should have run SuperPi 32M and 1M to see if the increased clock speed would have showed up significant improvements as well.

The RAM bandwidth testing is the only other benchmark test I ran. I tried running the RAM @ DDR500 (166MHz:200MHz divider) and @ DDR400 (133MHz:200MHz divider), and not surprisingly there was a huge difference (around 2000MB/s in Read and Copy) in bandwidth. This was without any changes to the primary timings, it should be noted. This suggests that RAM Frequency has a huge effect on the RAM bandwidth potential. I'm confident that Blitz can do a great job of showing us how the numbers support this idea.
    
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post #8484 of 28703
Just so you know Joe/N2Gaming, I have done some testing on HT Link Stability. If your HT Link is too high (or HTV too low), you will fail the second CPU test of S&M. That Joe's PC passed said test, the limiting factor is in fact RAM.

Joe: have you tried running the RAM at 2.8 V yet as I have suggested? Does it work at the timings/voltage you have now if you run HTT = 250; RAM = 1:1? If so, your IMC is overworked. If not, your RAM is overworked. If the RAM cannot do DDR 500 @ 3-3-2-8-1T with 2.8 V, your RAM should be RMAed to Mushkin.
     
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post #8485 of 28703
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz6804 View Post
Just so you know Joe/N2Gaming, I have done some testing on HT Link Stability. If your HT Link is too high (or HTV too low), you will fail the second CPU test of S&M. That Joe's PC passed said test, the limiting factor is in fact RAM.

Joe: have you tried running the RAM at 2.8 V yet as I have suggested? Does it work at the timings/voltage you have now if you run HTT = 250; RAM = 1:1? If so, your IMC is overworked. If not, your RAM is overworked. If the RAM cannot do DDR 500 @ 3-3-2-8-1T with 2.8 V, your RAM should be RMAed to Mushkin.
Among the myriad tests I did was running the RAM with 2.8V VDIMM, but this did not make any positive difference.

To address the issue of whether the RAM can actually run 1:1 @ 250MHz, I ran a test with this kit back when I first acquired it. It was able to run 1:1 with the reference clock up to 280MHz (DDR560). I suppose it's possible that living its life overclocked (i.e., above DDR400) for all of its life may have degraded it, but it's also possible that there could be two issues at work here:
  1. I may simply not have found the crucial one or two settings that will enable the RAM to run with S&M stability @ DDR500 with the reference clock @ 300MHz.
  2. It may be that the CPU's IMC is indeed the limiting factor.

The second point is interesting, because it takes a relatively significant increase in VCore to gain 100MHz from 2.8GHz to 2.9GHz (from 1.375V to 1.44V), with everything else constant. It then becomes a case of diminishing returns; you have to increase VCore even more than the .065V to gain another 100MHz to stay stable (if at all) in S&M.

More crucially, as I've noted before, I personally cannot tell the difference in performance between 2.8GHz and 3.0GHz at the keyboard level.

I theorize that it's possible to indeed have 3.0GHz, DDR500, and S&M stability, but only with a rather significant jump in VCore. This would only stress the system more, but without really rewarding the end user in terms of discernible performance increases (I cannot feel the difference myself). In most such cases, therefore, I would opt for the solution that gets the most performance possible at the least possible cost in terms of stress on the system as a whole.
    
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post #8486 of 28703
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz6804 View Post
Joe: have you tried running the RAM at 2.8 V yet as I have suggested? Does it work at the timings/voltage you have now if you run HTT = 250; RAM = 1:1? If so, your IMC is overworked. If not, your RAM is overworked. If the RAM cannot do DDR 500 @ 3-3-2-8-1T with 2.8 V, your RAM should be RMAed to Mushkin.
Blitz, do you mean to say, "it may be overworked'? Case in point if his IMC is being stressed higher then normal that doesn't necessarily mean he can't run those settings anymore. If the stress test passes then I don't see a problem.

Joe, I'm a bit curious. On the Muskin set, is the IC spec end with a CE-6? I just read a few things online saying the Redline series was UCCD and not Infineon
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post #8487 of 28703
Quote:
Originally Posted by pez View Post
It could have to do with your RAM settings. Do you have any info on that? That way other (more experienced than I) people would be able to help.
Well, I got 1GB of 2x512MB A-Data Technology Ram. PC3200. I have them set at 166 MHz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz6804 View Post
DDR 400 with a stock timing set of 4-4-7-10? I am dubious. If you can open for us please CPU-Z and get us a screen shot of the CPU, Memory, and SPD tabs that would be helpful. (It also has the precipitated side effect of getting you into the club should you wish to be so.)
CPU-Z says that at 166 the timmings are at 2.5-4-4-7 (2.5V) and at 200 they are at 3-4-4-8 (2.5V)? Are those the right timings? I would like to get to 2.4 GHz or get an overclock close to the normal ram settings of 200 each. I only have a stock cooler though and it doesn't seem to ever go over 60 on a 100 percent stress test.

http://img55.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cpuzramai5.png
Edited by Domino - 10/29/08 at 11:42am
post #8488 of 28703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post
Well, I got 1GB of 2x512MB A-Data Technology Ram. PC3200. I have them set at 166 MHz.



CPU-Z says that at 166 the timmings are at 2.5-4-4-7 (2.5V) and at 200 they are at 3-4-4-8 (2.5V)? Are those the right timings? I would like to get to 2.4 GHz or get an overclock close to the normal ram settings of 200 each. I only have a stock cooler though and it doesn't seem to ever go over 60 on a 100 percent stress test.
Those temps seem like they might be a little high if infact your at stock spd's. Most Big Name brand manufacturers are only going to put the cheapest yet most reliable cpu cooling in their systems to perform the way the machine was intended to perform. ie if the rig came w/onboard video and sound and you have changed the sound and video card now you have started to stress the machine beyond what it was designed for. Then there may be some who would say that disabling proprietary sound and video may stress the system less becuase by installing add in cards you take the load off the internal mobo parts and place the load to add in cards. Keep in mind any componat you add to your system will in one way or another possibly add internal heat. This is with out even mentioning trying to overclock the cpu. First things first. get controll of your temps before you harm your cpu. Change your cpu H/S&Fan add chassis fans etc. Then again you could always just go for it, what have you got to loose!! cpu or mobo maybe

Edit: From the looks of it you are using proprietary video and sound while stress testing only shows your cpu gets hot at 100% load and if you want your ram to run at ddr400 then you need to make sure your system is capable of doing that. I don't know much about intel cpu's but they normally have oddball fsb like 133, 166 and so on. what is the standard fsb for your cpu and ram?
Edited by N2Gaming - 10/29/08 at 11:58am
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post #8489 of 28703
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thlnk3r View Post
Joe, I'm a bit curious. On the Muskin set, is the IC spec end with a CE-6? I just read a few things online saying the Redline series was UCCD and not Infineon
The ICs for this Mushkin Redline XP4000 set are definitely CE-6s. The UCCD Redlines to which you are referring were probably older stock and/or not a 2GB kit. There's no question, though, that the current Mushkin Redline XP4000 DDR500 2GB kit is based on Infineon CE-6 ICs. Mushkin's own support forums have confirmed this.
    
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post #8490 of 28703
Quote:
Originally Posted by N2Gaming View Post
Those temps seem like they might be a little high if infact your at stock spd's. Most Big Name brand manufacturers are only going to put the cheapest yet most reliable cpu cooling in their systems to perform the way the machine was intended to perform. ie if the rig came w/onboard video and sound and you have changed the sound and video card now you have started to stress the machine beyond what it was designed for. Then there may be some who would say that disabling proprietary sound and video may stress the system less becuase by installing add in cards you take the load off the internal mobo parts and place the load to add in cards. Keep in mind any componat you add to your system will in one way or another possibly add internal heat. This is with out even mentioning trying to overclock the cpu. First things first. get controll of your temps before you harm your cpu. Change your cpu H/S&Fan add chassis fans etc. Then again you could always just go for it, what have you got to loose!! cpu or mobo maybe

Edit: From the looks of it you are using proprietary video and sound while stress testing only shows your cpu gets hot at 100% load and if you want your ram to run at ddr400 then you need to make sure your system is capable of doing that. I don't know much about intel cpu's but they normally have oddball fsb like 133, 166 and so on. what is the standard fsb for your cpu and ram?
Sorry, I have the wrong system in my sig rig. Ok, my overclock system is in the sig now.

See, if I put it at 2.3GHz, the system would go into a CMOS safe mode type thing after awhile and it shows it only at 39.C. But then I find out it just declocked itself. Would investing in a new cooler be worth it then? Has anyone gotten to 2.4 on a stock cooler?

200x10 and 200 Ram
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