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The Socket 939 Appreciation Club and Knowledgebase [Official] - Page 855

post #8541 of 28751
Thread Starter 
Jacka, have you tested your various components (i.e., CPU, motherboard, and RAM) for their respective maximum potential speeds? I personally find this is necessary to determine which component is holding an overclock back; it makes analyzing problems a far more simple process if you know what each of these components, on their own, can do.

Good luck.
    
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post #8542 of 28751
Motherboard is fine upto 275, as is the CPU.

If I upped my RAM divider to 20 and cranked up the CPU more, would performance increase or decrease?
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post #8543 of 28751
Thread Starter 
With K8s, a good rule of thumb is "CPU speed is king." Provided you haven't really slowed your RAM down so much (via applying really big dividers and/or using really slack timings) without making significant gains in CPU speed (and reference clock speed -- HTT Frequency, or "FSB"), total system performance ought to be enhanced by higher CPU speeds.

A good benchmark to measure your system's performance is to use Everest Ultimate's RAM bandwidth benchmark. I've forgotten whether or not you need to have purchased a license for this program to be able to use the built-in benchmarks, but in case only the licensed version has the benchmarks you want to use, SiSoft SANDRA (available for free download here) also has an equivalent RAM bandwidth benchmark component.

Basically you want to set up a battery of tests to see which overclocking configuration gives you the most performance. RAM bandwidth is a useful benchmark because it's a measurement of how much data your system can process within a given time unit. Obviously, the higher the numbers, the better the performance.

I apologize if this post is light on specific information vis-a-vis settings (I don't know if this was what you were expecting); however, I do believe very strongly in the value of experience and self-discovery.

There will be more opinions that will help you along, I'm sure, in due time.

Good luck!
    
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post #8544 of 28751
http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?i...chemem2zg5.png

How's that one for memory bandwith?


Just for comparison, this is the test with the speeds I showed CPU-Z of earlier.
http://img526.imageshack.us/my.php?i...chemem3qx2.png
Edited by Jacka - 10/30/08 at 1:12am
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post #8545 of 28751
Thread Starter 
Those results show that the slower CPU speed is, in fact, yields more performance. The bandwidth is significantly better in Write, Copy, and Read, and Memory Latency. (This answers the question you posed a couple of posts up, as well.)

What these screenshots suggest to me is that you can gain more performance through optimizing your RAM setup. On its own, how fast have you been able to get your RAM to run?

(If I don't answer immediately, that means I've gone to bed. Sadly, I have to be at work in the morning.)
    
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post #8546 of 28751
We can have the rest of the conversation later, I have some lectures to go to now.

Back in 9 hours!
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post #8547 of 28751
Thread Starter 
We'll all be here, Jacka!
    
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post #8548 of 28751
Jacka: when you are running your RAM at DDR 366, your timings are the same as for DDR 333. If you loosen them to the DDR 400 specs (3-3-3-8) you may be able to increase the HTT without reducing your divider. If it can be done, and I make no guarantee, you could theoretically run HTT=250 which gives you DDR 400 at 200:166. If 2.5 V is not stable, consider trying 2.6 V on the RAM. I would not add more voltage than that unless you have sinks and/or active cooling.

In an "ideal" world, DDR 400 will run at 6400 MBps. Your "best" overclock is presently 5604 MBps. The RAM is well configured in the sense that DDR 366 is 5856 MBps theoretically. That is 95.7% of the theoretical bandwidth. Generally, the tighter the timings, the closer to theoretical you will get. This is why 939 rigs can out-bandwidth AM2 megahert-for-megahert. Also, why 939/AM2 can defeat LGA775 by the same matter. The question is here: is it better to have a tight-timed, lower speed (which is close to theoretical, but the theoretical is not that fast) or a loose-timed, higher speed (which is far from theoretical, but the theoretical is rather fast)? 939/AM2 generally prefer the former, LGA775 generally prefer the latter.

Anecdotally, consider my friend's LGA775, my 939 prior to death, and my AM2 now. His RAM runs at DDR2 1110 at 5-7-7-20-2T. He scores around 8500 MBps. 8500 MBps is around 48.3% of the theoretical 17,600 MBps. My 939 ran DDR 500 at 3-3-2-8-1T. It scored around 7900 MBps, which is 98.6% of the theoretical 8000 MBps. My AM2 runs DDR2 813 at 4-4-4-12-1T. It scores around 9330 MBps. This is 71.7% of the theoretical 13,008 MBps.

The end of this number storm: higher speed is not always king. We see that the high-speed, high-latency loses to the low-speed, low-latency, which in *turn loses to the middle ground of both. Proper testing and optimization is required to find the best solution.
     
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post #8549 of 28751
Is superPi a good enough benchmarking tool for testing the system performance?

Also, does "tight timings" mean lower numbers?
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post #8550 of 28751
Yes, lower numbers mean tighter timings. And no, SuperPi is not sensitive enough to tell the difference. If you care solely about memory bandwidth, Everest/SANDRA is the way to go. If you want total performance, something more substantial like 3DMark06 is the way to go. In either event, I recommend running the test 5/7/9 times and then averaging the middle three results. If the standard deviation is more than 1-3% of the average, I would run it a few more times and then take a new average. This is especially true for 3DMark06, as it is horribly inconsistent.

(Standard deviation: take the difference between Trial X and the average. Square the difference. Sum all the *squared differences. Square-root the sum. Divide by the number of trials. This can be done in Excel with =STDEV(x1,x2,x3,...,xN).

That is:

sqrt((x1-xA)^2+(x2-xA)^2+(x3-xA)^2+...+(xN-xA)^2)/N

Where "sqrt()" calls for the square root and "x^2" means squared. x1 is trial 1, x2 is trial 2, et cetera, and xN is trial N. xA is the average of all trials.)
     
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